Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[drsmithy]

Well you can tell me how many bills went against the wishes of the Greens.
The 0.1% figures where implying that was the percentage of bills that went against the Greens opinion.

That's a _vastly_ different argument.

Especially when the context is an argument that the Greens are unduly influencing legislation.

 

[Skyring]

Very true. They do say 'absolute power corrupts absolutely'.

The contention is in the House of Reps anyway. The senate are glorified rubber stampers, which is why most sail through unchallenged.

On another note, since when is good government measured by the amount of legislation passed? Good governments should be measured on the quality and outcome of the legislation.

Gough always found the Senate to be rather less than a dutiful rubber stamp.

Quality of legislation is what counts. As for quantity, perhaps we could use a government that doesn't interfere in our lives quite so much?

 

[medhead]

Nope - an example of self interest is flogging more and more coal to China for profit when you know it is doing the planet harm. But greed always trumps altruism, so don't be too hard on yourself.

china is mainly interested in high quality coking coal used in steel production. There is no alternative to using coal. For power production china has plenty enough coal resources, without buying from Australia. They are also installing heaps of nuclear. Thereby diversifying their power supply, which is what Australia should be doing.

Well, medhead would say the Carbon Tax only came about only because of the minority government, in which the Greens were complicit in forming. Unless Gillard really was lying of course.

The operative word there is "the". As in that particular version. But Gillard always promised to put a price on carbon, so I would not say there would be nothing on carbon without a minority government.

Well you can tell me how many bills went against the wishes of the Greens.
The 0.1% figures where implying that was the percentage of bills that went against the Greens opinion.

Besides putting single parents onto the dole?

 

[Skyring]

It always makes me laugh how Labor working with the Greens is a "minority Government", but the Liberals working with the Nationals is a "coalition".

The PolSci 101 definition of government is the council of ministers advising the executive. The Libs and Nats have always provided ministers from both parties.

If the Greens provided a minister, then we could call the Gillard/Rudd government a coalition. But the ministry - what's left of it - is all Labor. No Independent, no Green input.

 

[Skyring]

China ... are also installing heaps of nuclear. Thereby diversifying their power supply, which is what Australia should be doing.

This would give us the ability to reduce our emissions without reducing our power. We have bugger-all hydro, wind and solar, and hydro makes up the lion's share of that small amount.

But, in a holdover from the Cold War, nuclear is problematic territory.

 

[eastwest101]

china is mainly interested in high quality coking coal used in steel production. There is no alternative to using coal. For power production china has plenty enough coal resources, without buying from Australia. They are also installing heaps of nuclear. Thereby diversifying their power supply, which is what Australia should be doing.

Totally support your opinion there medhead - when the greens grow up and start talking about plausible and responsible low carbon energy like nuclear, hydroelectricity, gas, geothermal etc then I will listen to them, until then, they are just a bunch of hypocritical idealistic NIMBY's whom need a whole lot more scrutiny in the future....once this scrutiny is applied they will have to make some tough decisions.

 

[Pushka]

Thinking more about the Greens, I think it was that relationship with Labor that was the most toxic.

 

[amaroo]

Thinking more about the Greens, I think it was that relationship with Labor that was the most toxic.

LOL given recent polling - the ALP are well on their way to becoming just another minor party full of self interest, grudges and paybacks.

Thats exactly what they are in QLD.

 

[drross]

LOL given recent polling - the ALP are well on their way to becoming just another minor party full of self interest, grudges and paybacks.

Thats exactly what they are in QLD.

were not are. No one in QLD know what they are now

 

[Mak404matt]

LOL given recent polling

Poll Preferred PM: Rudd 51 (+18) Abbott 34 (-3)
Poll 2 Party Preferred: ALP 49 (+4) L/NP 51 (-4)

 

[amaroo]

Poll Preferred PM: Rudd 51 (+18) Abbott 34 (-3)
Poll 2 Party Preferred: ALP 49 (+4) L/NP 51 (-4)

Exactly - best decision they've made in the past three years + a day or two.

Unbelievable that they didn't act earlier.....

A party that can't act in it's own interest - isn't going to look after yours very well!

 

[Mak404matt]

Exactly - best decision they've made in the past three years + a day or two.

Unbelievable that they didn't act earlier.....

A party that can't act in it's own interest - isn't going to look after yours very well!

Indeed! I do hope however that it isn't just a 'sugar hit' as Abbott put it, and that the polls stay at this level.

I also hope it forces the coalition to put out some costed policies, instead of their 'pamphlet' they call their policies, in which they didn't even spell Australian right on the front of...

 

[james4321]

Indeed! I do hope however that it isn't just a 'sugar hit' as Abbott put it, and that the polls stay at this level.

I also hope it forces the coalition to put out some costed policies, instead of their 'pamphlet' they call their policies, in which they didn't even spell Australian right on the front of...

Agree 100%. The more times Abbott opens his mouth the more the ALP will benefit ... will be very interesting when he develops and then tries to actually explain his policies rather than just regurgitating stupid meaningless 3 word slogans.

 

[Skyring]

Exactly - best decision they've made in the past three years + a day or two.

I wouldn't be so sure. The ALP booted Rudd for Gillard because they were worried about their seats. They've done the same thing again, now.

But remember there were two times in the Gillard reign when they could have swapped, and they rejected Rudd decisively. Because why? Because he is a worse leader, a worse performer than Gillard. If they thought he was better, they would have put him back in after a good long look at Gillard.

But they didn't. Twice they didn't. Instead they salted Rudd's fields with severe - and well-aimed - criticism.

Granted, it's the people who elect their representatives at the election, not the party machines.

Just watch. Rudd has a bunch of policy decisions to make very quickly before the honeymoon glow wears off. And it's going to be a very short honeymoon this time round, because the media has gone that way before.

Asylum seekers are going to cruel Rudd unless he comes up with something really good from Indonesia. He's already being savaged for some really thoughtless comments and if his only strategy is to be negative towards Abbott without coming up with anything workable himself, he's going to look like the empty windbag he's trying to portray Abbott as.

Remember, we've seen Rudd with his hands on the levers. He squibbed so many decisions and he stuffed up so many others. The Coalition aren't going to give him a free ride.

There is the lift in the polls, but I'd be astonished if it lasts.

 

[yeahbut]

Remember, we've seen Rudd with his hands on the levers. He squibbed so many decisions and he stuffed up so many others. The Coalition aren't going to give him a free ride.

Hmmm... He's not a stupid man though and blind Freddie could tell he's on his absolute last chance, so he's got absolutely nothing to lose by making hard decisions, and certainly nothing to gain by squibbing at all...

I think it'll be a very interesting few weeks....

 

[amaroo]

I wouldn't be so sure. The ALP booted Rudd for Gillard because they were worried about their seats. They've done the same thing again, now.

They did what they were told 3 years ago. They thought they were at the start of a 1000 year reign........when the bloated, useless, faceless union rejects decided to throw their considerable weight around - the foot soldiers (MP's) lined up like drones and fell into line.

Fast forward three years - the party's a joke, the policies are hated by the community and no one cares what the bloated jokes in the AWU think anymore.

Self interest kicks in........politics 101.

 

[Pushka]

Agree 100%. The more times Abbott opens his mouth the more the ALP will benefit ... will be very interesting when he develops and then tries to actually explain his policies rather than just regurgitating stupid meaningless 3 word slogans.

That's funny. I think the same about Rudd. He just can't help himself.

Now this is good news from Gillard:
http://www.news.com.au/national-new...86-slashed-to-12/story-fnii5s3x-1226671939686

 

[drron]

There is this very cynical thought I am having.Hoping that Kevin Rudd actually wins the election.Then as the economy comes crashing down and the knives come out we see the demise of the ALP.

 

[Pushka]

There is this very cynical thought I am having.Hoping that Kevin Rudd actually wins the election.Then as the economy comes crashing down and the knives come out we see the demise of the ALP.

It is probably only proper they have to clean up the mess. They have a vision of Australia that just isn't wanting to see the dire straits of many small and medium businesses. But even so, no, I don't want that.

 

[cove]

Hang on drron they are already crashing the economy. Do we need a third term to prove these people could not successfully run a pay toilet. I think they have shown us that already.
I loved Kevin's speech on the subject of Julia where he ignored her achievements in the period she was Prime Minister.