Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[amaroo]

You are innocent unless the court finds you guilty. The only verdict is guilty or not guilty. There is no such verdict as innocent.

If you are found not guilty - you are innocent.

Fact remains when someone is avoiding the process they must have something to hide.

 

[Pushka]

If you are found not guilty - you are innocent.

Fact remains when someone is avoiding the process they must have something to hide.

He went through the process and was allowed to leave. There has been, to my knowledge, no new evidence. Then the USA got involved through wikileaks. Can you honestly and knowingly state that if wikileaks had never occurred, that he would be required to return to Sweden to face any charges? And if you can't, then the current process is corrupt.

And there is no such verdict as innocent. It remains a presumption.

 

[amaroo]

He went through the process and was allowed to leave. There has been, to my knowledge, no new evidence. Then the USA got involved through wikileaks. Can you honestly and knowingly state that if wikileaks had never occurred, that he would be required to return to Sweden to face any charges? And if you can't, then the current process is corrupt.

I have zero sympathy for this douchebag. The one I feel very sorry for is Bradley Manning - poor sod got sucked in by the "white wizard".........now paying a huge price for his stupidity.

AFAIK JA is subject/breach of EU arrest warrant, UK Supreme Court finding & Swedish prosecutor. Big call calling all of that corrupt!

 

[Hvr]

If you are found not guilty - you are innocent.

<snip>

Incorrect, there are lots of guilty people walking around who were found not guilty. It just means that the state didn't meet its burden of proving guilt 'beyond reasonable doubt' in a criminal case.

 

[amaroo]

Incorrect, there are lots of guilty people walking around who were found not guilty. It just means that the state didn't meet its burden of proving guilt 'beyond reasonable doubt' in a criminal case.

Innocent according to lady justice.....best system we have.

 

[Hvr]

Innocent according to lady justice.....best system we have.

I wonder if the Scottish verdict of 'not proven' has merit for our justice system?

The result is the modern perception that the "not proven" verdict is an acquittal used when the judge or jury does not have enough evidence to convict but is not sufficiently convinced of the accused person's innocence to bring in a "not guilty" verdict. Essentially, the judge or jury is unconvinced that the suspect is innocent, but has insufficient evidence to the contrary.

 

[amaroo]

I wonder if the Scottish verdict of 'not proven' has merit for our justice system?

The cough verdict - yeah, I could live with that

 

[serfty]

Of course, on the other hand there are many verified cases of where charges were indeed found to be "proven" but subsequently the 'proven' part was found to be incorrect.

This is getting off topic, but IMHO it is better to let ten people go free than have one incorrectly convicted.

 

[straitman]

This is getting off topic,

The thread has hardly been On Topic for days now :!:

 

[Skyring]

...but IMHO it is better to let ten people go free than have one incorrectly convicted.

Crikey. That's a bold statement. Care to name them?

 

[Pushka]

The thread has hardly been On Topic for days now :!:

That's because the election campaign is just really boring.

 

[Skyring]

That's because the election campaign is just really boring.

All over bar the shouting.

 

[drsmithy]

Or innocent.

No, guilty.

It's like the scientific method. Things are never proven, only disproven.

You are innocent until a court find you guilty.

(Not that he's even been charged with anything to be found guilty of, IIRC...)

Every onlooker is entitled to make up their own mind on a case. Whether that opinion matches that of a judge and jury is immaterial. Apart from the imposition of official penalties, of course. If, for example, the chap in the downstairs flat steals my bike and I observe him riding away on it, I don't consider him innocent. That would be foolish.

Ah, I see you're mixing informal usage of words that carry quite specific meanings in context, again. Seems to be a nasty habit.

There are only a few people who know whether Assange is "guilty" in the context you are talking about, and I'm willing to bet none of them are posting in this thread.

 

[drsmithy]

If you are found not guilty - you are innocent.

Fact remains when someone is avoiding the process they must have something to hide.

Or they have concerns about the process.

Given Sweden has been happy to do some extraordinary rendition at the USA's behest before, he does has some justification for his paranoia.

 

[drsmithy]

AFAIK JA is subject/breach of EU arrest warrant, UK Supreme Court finding & Swedish prosecutor. Big call calling all of that corrupt!

Er, hardly. All that's necessary is the first part of issuing the warrant to have been "corrupt". The rest is based entirely on the warrant existing.

IIRC the UK court quite explicitly made no attempt to investigate the goings on behind the issue of the warrant, merely that the formalities around it were by the book.

 

[amaroo]

All over bar the shouting.

Maybe Gillard will make a comeback.

 

[Moody]

Speaking of light relief ... got the Clive Palmer promotional DVD in the mail today. I missed his cameo on the often excruciating Wednesday Night Live, but it sounds like Clive's tactic is to take the absolute PI$$ out of himself and his party. I was about to chuck it but my teenage son insisted on watching. He said it was the funniest thing he's seen in a while.

 

[Skyring]

Maybe Gillard will make a comeback.

Rudd's campaign team is praying steadily for this.

The horror stories are coming in thick and strong. The Rudd plane makes up its own story in flight and the campaign headquarters learns about it when they watch the news.

 

[Moody]

Rudd's campaign team is praying steadily for this.

The horror stories are coming in thick and strong. The Rudd plane makes up its own story in flight and the campaign headquarters learns about it when they watch the news.

Citation required but it won't be forthcoming so I don't know why I bothered rising to the bait of this bovine excrement.

 

[mavrick9]

Anyone know what planes Kevin Rudd , Tony Abbott and the media are flying around in. Last week there were a few photos of a RAAF C17 and today Abbott camp was on a Alliance (looked like a Foker) up north in WA.

Wouldn't the PM normally ride in the RAAF 737 BBJ ?