Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[Pukka]

Yes, for the same reason a car from a company with a great engineering department and poor marketing department will be better than a car from a company with a great marketing department and poor engineering department.

Not that I think Labor will run the country well, just better than the Liberals, who will run it into the ground just like their neoliberal brethren in the rest of the western world have.

Well I've always gone for the engineering which is why I've decided to treat myself to a BMW but I think that their product sells itself unlike the ALP who have a coughpy product to sell and it looks very much like nobody is buying it. And their marketing is coughpy too

 

[drron]

Take the "unmitigated disaster" and compare it to any other country on earth and get back to me.

Well if you can name another country who has sold as much iron ore and coal to China let me know.
Apart from 2008-09 Government income has been rising faster than inflation.If you compare tax receipts of 2011/12 to that of 2007/08 then they are still up by more than inflation.
I always am amazed how people can say Howard/Costello wasted the mining boom when prices were higher and our terms of trade at a record with this Labor government.
Sorry but they have been a disaster.We could have been set up to ride out the coming crash(it may be a few years off yet) but now it is going to be very difficult.
Why a crash?Can you name a country that has had continuous high growth without a reversal-so will China's growth continue forever?
Not to mention Europe whose economies are a little frail.
The US may do an Australia if they do manage to attain an energy surplus.

 

[whatmeworry]

I draw from the well of experience. The last 6 years have been a disaster!

Yet the economy is still one of the best performing in the developed world.

Most Liberal supporters are still sooking that Australia voted out Howard.

The paradigm has shifted long a go and the liberal party will get a rude shock by going back to the old way of thinking.

 

[777]

Well if you can name another country who has sold as much iron ore and coal to China let me know.
Apart from 2008-09 Government income has been rising faster than inflation.If you compare tax receipts of 2011/12 to that of 2007/08 then they are still up by more than inflation.
I always am amazed how people can say Howard/Costello wasted the mining boom when prices were higher and our terms of trade at a record with this Labor government.
Sorry but they have been a disaster.We could have been set up to ride out the coming crash(it may be a few years off yet) but now it is going to be very difficult.
Why a crash?Can you name a country that has had continuous high growth without a reversal-so will China's growth continue forever?
Not to mention Europe whose economies are a little frail.
The US may do an Australia if they do manage to attain an energy surplus.

You don't even seem to be attempting to claim this is an "unmitigated disaster" which is the point i was responding to. You seem to be saying it's pretty good, but there are other factors at work as well as good economic management. I agree.

If you are genuinely worried about "the coming crash" you must be relieved as i am that the opposition has done a 180 degree about face in the last 24 hours and committed to running a defiict and a growing the national debt. I was genuinely fearful that they believed there own hype on this because it would have given us nothing to fight any future economic crisis with and likely catalysed a recession if a few percent of GDP was slashed.

But it does make 6 years of their arguments a lie and/or a joke.

 

[amaroo]

After 8 months of pretty intense contributions to this thread I'm sure most regular posters here are now focusing on the vote. The time for arguing the nuances, dissing the dirt, defending incompetence, bagging the other mob and all the other stuff that has been going on for the last 8 months is ending

All that is left is the voting, drinking, laughing or sulking - depending on your point of view.

 

[Skyring]

Yes, for the same reason a car from a company with a great engineering department and poor marketing department will be better than a car from a company with a great marketing department and poor engineering department.

Not that I think Labor will run the country well, just better than the Liberals, who will run it into the ground just like their neoliberal brethren in the rest of the western world have.

Neither party has "run Australia into the ground" and they have all had long periods in office. I trust them both. Not to be perfect, but to be adequate.

As for engineering, announced policies don't equate to performance on the ground. Look at Rudd 1.0 - the Apology, how did that translate into better outcomes for Aboriginal Australians? Not a lot of progress there. Likewise the pink batts and the school halls, and while he announced all sorts of things, I don't think he actually delivered on anything else.

Gillard actually did stuff, but here she mostly failed to deliver as well. The asylum-seeker thing just totally blew up on her, the carbon tax was a huge mistake, the NBN an expensive white elephant. Plus she annoyed the cough out of people for one reason or another. Leaders don't have to be loved and respected, but it helps.

 

[Skyring]

Have a great time don't invite too many lefties they're going to be very poor company tomorrow night 

They'll be in bed by 8:30.

 

[Skyring]

Here's a simple test. Let's come back in three years time and see if unemployment, interest rates, and national debt are higher or lower.

To suggest the last 6 years have been a "disaster" is just ridiculous. We are tracking better than pretty much any country on earth.

Cherry-picking your metrics there. When I say disaster, I don't mean economically, I mean politically. We've had an unstable government with a string of poor decisions. Rudd and Gillard dumped the trust of the voters to the extent that Abbott is now the popular choice.

Unless you are an inhabitant of the far right, you can't look on this situation with equanimity, surely?

 

[pauly7]

This thread has entered the 6666 rage on election morning. Sign of the devil plus an extra 6 for bad luck. Guess that means we know who is winning today :/

 

[drsmithy]

If you are genuinely worried about "the coming crash" you must be relieved as i am that the opposition has done a 180 degree about face in the last 24 hours and committed to running a defiict and a growing the national debt. I was genuinely fearful that they believed there own hype on this because it would have given us nothing to fight any future economic crisis with and likely catalysed a recession if a few percent of GDP was slashed.

I don't think there was ever any doubt the Libs would continue to spend like mad. They've made no secret of their idolisation of Howard.

The problem is they're going to do it on things like baby bribes and tax breaks for the well-off, not infrastructure and services.

 

[serfty]

After 8 months of pretty intense contributions to this thread I'm sure most regular posters here are now focusing on the vote. The time for arguing the nuances, dissing the dirt, defending incompetence, bagging the other mob and all the other stuff that has been going on for the last 8 months is ending

All that is left is the voting, drinking, laughing or sulking - depending on your point of view.

OK, for those keen on Senate - here's a nice little calculator to keep you busy tonight (assuming the House is over by 8pm):

Antony Green's Senate Calculator - Australia Votes | Federal Election 2013 (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

 

[Limewood]

Well our dinner party tonight should be interesting here at my pad be 4 libs and 2 vocal labor voters.

 

[drsmithy]

Well if you can name another country who has sold as much iron ore and coal to China let me know.
Apart from 2008-09 Government income has been rising faster than inflation.If you compare tax receipts of 2011/12 to that of 2007/08 then they are still up by more than inflation.
I always am amazed how people can say Howard/Costello wasted the mining boom when prices were higher and our terms of trade at a record with this Labor government.
Sorry but they have been a disaster.We could have been set up to ride out the coming crash(it may be a few years off yet) but now it is going to be very difficult.
Why a crash?Can you name a country that has had continuous high growth without a reversal-so will China's growth continue forever?
Not to mention Europe whose economies are a little frail.
The US may do an Australia if they do manage to attain an energy surplus.

Amazing how _now_ things happening outside Australia are suddenly relevant.

Howard & Costello wasted the boom because back when they were in charge was the time to start benefiting from it by imposing rent taxes and stashing the takings into a sovereign wealth fund for a rainy day (or at least build infrastructure and services with it).

Instead it got thrown away on entrenching middle class welfare, unsustainable tax cuts (which form the basis of the problems we now have) and a great big trough of money for the pollies to feed from. They sold assets, FFS, when they should have been building them up.

Their failure was all the more damning because they had a good model to work from (Norway).

And Abbot is going to try more of the same. Only he won't have the benefit of perfect conditions to do so.

 

[drron]

Sorry but spending rising at twice the rate of income is the reason for most of the problems.
And Costello did put 70 billion into the Future Fund.

 

[11sjw]

Well our dinner party tonight should be interesting here at my pad be 4 libs and 2 vocal labor voters.

Pretty sure that word is redundant.

 

[medhead]

Sorry but spending rising at twice the rate of income is the reason for most of the problems.
And Costello did put 70 billion into the Future Fund.

And he spent a hell of a lot of money on middle class welfare. Welfare that can't be undone judging by the screams of blue murder whenever the alp has tried to cap and limit costellos middle class welfare.

Now what exactly is the future fund supposed to buy.

 

[medhead]

Pretty sure that word is redundant.

Or it should also be applied to the liberals.

 

[11sjw]

Or it should also be applied to the liberals.

just when I thought I may need to prove my point.

 

[drron]

And he spent a hell of a lot of money on middle class welfare. Welfare that can't be undone judging by the screams of blue murder whenever the alp has tried to cap and limit costellos middle class welfare.

Now what exactly is the future fund supposed to buy.

70 billion dollars of future debt.

 

[tgh]

C'mon Children.. lighten up.. salvation is nigh..

Here's a little reassurance to carry you through the joy or ( despair) of an end to one chapter and the beginning of another..

Oh Happy Day! (Full version) - Choeur Gospel Célébration de Québec & Sylvie Desgroseilliers - YouTube