Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[Moody]

Whatever rocks your boat moody.. most will just see a couple of rats getting out before the Tsunami.

Tsunami is an apt description - and its not only rats that wish to escape the destruction.

 

[medhead]

Windsor's electorate had plenty of chances to get a conservative representative. They didn't and I think it is false to say its a conservative electorate of the coalition type. The same can be said about Katter with a family history involving both the ALP and the National party. His position must be a mix of those 2 strands and his electorate continues to support him.

 

[Pukka]

Yep - that must be the motivation, eh? Nothing to do with the fact that even if elected they will be unable to represent their electorate properly due to the Tony Abbott revenge factor?

I don't blame either of them for leaving politics behind - they have both achieved an enormous amount under the minority government but that has all been lost amongst the baying vitriol of the lynch mob.

Sad day for Australian politics but that is clearly misunderstood here ...

Yes they have achieved an enormous amount. They are responsible for Julia's legislation getting through the lower house and that's what they are quite rightly being judged on.

 

[Pukka]

Didn't think you would.

Tony Windsor is also quitting, citing health and family concerns. But he also mentioned that the conservative hate campaign had taken its toll.

So congrats to you and all your mob ....

But all the comments you've made about Abbot are ok then?

 

[medhead]

But all the comments you've made about Abbot are ok then?

Abbott has set the standard that he is apparently willing to accept. Seems its all a one way street with conservatives.

 

[Skyring]

Yes they have achieved an enormous amount. They are responsible for Julia's legislation getting through the lower house and that's what they are quite rightly being judged on.

Well, I dunno. I count only a handful of Bills that needed their support. On 99% of legislation, Coalition and Labor vote as one. It usually doesn't even come to a division. A few drowsy MPs say "Aye", and that is that.

 

[Skyring]

Tony Windsor is also quitting, citing health and family concerns. But he also mentioned that the conservative hate campaign had taken its toll.

So congrats to you and all your mob ....

...and all your mob...

Tell me. Do you think all members of a given set of individuals share the same behaviour? For example, if we talk about Islamic terrorism, do we look on all members of that faith as terrorists? Or do we narrow our focus to those who are Islamic and terrorists? Not Islamic or terrorists.

Some people may well have personally attacked or abused Tony windsor for his political decisions. Kevin Rudd, perhaps. It doesn't mean that all those making personal attacks are from one side of politics. Or the reverse.

Isn't logic a fascinating field? It can trip us up so easily.

 

[Skyring]

Why? What have they done to harm their electorate and the rest of Australia? If they stood under the platform of "I promise to be Tony Abbott's lackey" and reversed that position then you may have a point. But they were elected to act in the best interests of their constituents, and they came to the decision that they could not support Tony Abbott. Makes perfect sense to me.

As noted at the time, they found themselves in a rare position of influence, whereby they could secure significant advantages for their electorates. That would apply no matter who they supported. However, they noted that Tony Abbott would be more likely to call an early election - because he would win it - and their position as kingmakers would end.

Windsor has just now stated that if the ALP elects Rudd, he might support Abbott over Rudd.

Windsor won't guarantee support for Rudd

 

[Skyring]

Funny that those so-called right-wing electorates (state and federal) failed to choose the National Party candidate every time that Tony Windsor stood as an independent. What do you think they were trying to say???

They saw Tony Windsor as inherently conservative. No surprise there. The big advantage of an independent is that their power base lies in their electorate. For the two big parties, their power stems from the big cities, and their loyalty is to the party machine.

Independents find it hard to get into Parliament against the big parties. The usual path is by leaving the party while in office. However, if they are any good, they are likely to be re-elected.

There's more to politics than the big parties.

 

[drsmithy]

Isn't logic a fascinating field? It can trip us up so easily.

Indeed. For example, it could be that Moody is referring to the "mob" participating in the "conservative hate campaign".

 

[medhead]

...and all your mob...

Tell me. Do you think all members of a given set of individuals share the same behaviour? For example, if we talk about Islamic terrorism, do we look on all members of that faith as terrorists? Or do we narrow our focus to those who are Islamic and terrorists? Not Islamic or terrorists.

There would be a block, a mob even, of Abbott supporters in this country who take the second view.

 

[serfty]

Funny that those so-called right-wing electorates (state and federal) failed to choose the National Party candidate every time that Tony Windsor stood as an independent. What do you think they were trying to say???

I used the term "conservative".

Here's the results of the 2010 election for those seats:

House of Representatives Results
[TABLE="class: grid"]
[TR]
[TD]New England
2010 significant results[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] (1st Pref.)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SMITH, Greg[/TD]
[TD]Country Labor[/TD]
[TD] 8.13%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]COATES, Tim[/TD]
[TD]The Nationals[/TD]
[TD] 25.22%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]WINDSOR, Tony
[/TD]
[TD]Independent[/TD]
[TD]61.88%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: grid"]
[TR]
[TD]Lyne 2010
Significant results[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD](1st Pref.):[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]OAKESHOTT, Robert
[/TD]
[TD]Independent[/TD]
[TD] 47.15%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]LIPS, Frederik[/TD]
[TD]Labor[/TD]
[TD]13.49%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]GILLESPIE, David[/TD]
[TD]The Nationals[/TD]
[TD]34.39%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

It will be interesting to see what happens for 2013 in these seats.

So, taking the independent's votes out, of the remaining voters, ~3 times as many chose the aligned conservative candidate over the the aligned labour candidate.

 

[Pushka]

Didn't think you would.

Tony Windsor is also quitting, citing health and family concerns. But he also mentioned that the conservative hate campaign had taken its toll.

So congrats to you and all your mob ....

That would be the conservative hate mob in his electorate and whom he betrayed?

And by the way, the carbon tax is increasing by a dollar on Monday. In Europe it's $6 and in NZ it is 75 cents and zero for the USA. Australia is the only dud. Thanks for the legacy.

 

[Moody]

But all the comments you've made about Abbot are ok then?

Which comments in particular?

 

[Danger]

Breaking news from Capital Hill, a leadership petition is in circulation with a view to forcing the prime minister to hold a ballot for the leadership at 9am tomorrow morning. There is a belief that the Rudd camp has the numbers. If he was to be appointed prime minister, a constitutional crisis of sorts would be almost certain.

 

[medhead]

Breaking news from Capital Hill, a leadership petition is in circulation with a view to forcing the prime minister to hold a ballot for the leadership at 9am tomorrow morning. There is a belief that the Rudd camp has the numbers. If he was to be appointed prime minister, a constitutional crisis of sorts would be almost certain.

'twas on the front page of the AFR today.

View attachment 16705

 

[drsmithy]

That would be the conservative hate mob in his electorate and whom he betrayed?

Which of his policies did he change dramatically after being elected ?

 

[simongr]

That would be the conservative hate mob in his electorate and whom he betrayed?

And by the way, the carbon tax is increasing by a dollar on Monday. In Europe it's $6 and in NZ it is 75 cents and zero for the USA. Australia is the only dud. Thanks for the legacy.

In Finland (which is in Europe but not the EU) it is €20, in Sweden (also Europe but not EU) it is $150, Denmark (aEbnEU) €18, Switzerland (aEbnEU) CHF36 (that probably converts to some number of A$).

I am not defending the carbon tax but let's be open and honest about it.

She's not gone yet it seems. I really do hope there isn't a spill and the Australian people can vote on whether the policies she has led through the government are believed to have been beneficial to them.

 

[Moody]

That would be the conservative hate mob in his electorate and whom he betrayed?.

I was referring to the hate mob in the whole of Australia, but please explain how Tony Windsor has betrayed his electorate.

And by the way, the carbon tax is increasing by a dollar on Monday. In Europe it's $6 and in NZ it is 75 cents and zero for the USA. Australia is the only dud. Thanks for the legacy.

How is it a dud to penalise pollution and reward sustainability? What has been your personal impact from the introduction of a carbon tax? Is the USA really doing nothing about emissions, or does it just do so in other ways?

Having a global system in place whatever the format) is the best way to tackle CO2 emissions. I am proud that Australia has put the environment before profit in this instance, and hope that Tony does really try to replace it with his coughpy alternative.

 

[medhead]

Not to mention Obama's speech about doing something on carbon overnight. So USA zero for now, except California (which has some sort of carbon thingy).