People coming past the curtain to use the dunny, especially row-4 platinums.

[JohnK]

Traveling business class means that you are expected to attend a meeting the next day or you need the rest from long day at work & thus do not expect any disturbance from economy passengers.

And this entitles a business class passenger to have exclusive use of toilets at the front? And those travelling economy do not have to work a full day the next day or even the same day.

hmmm... so the odd economy passenger using the first class check-in would be ok.

I have been using First Class check-in since 2007 whilst travelling in economy. Much better than using economy class check-in.

unless you have a medical condition, are elderly or disabled, then I don't get the mindset that says I can take something I haven't paid for. it's about dignity surely?

Is this a wind up?

 

[Rono]

Serfty,

I have my list of AFF abbreviations tucked into the back of my business diary.....can't see a reference to SSR...what does it mean??
Does it mean my list needs updating, if so is can you give me a link to follow??

regards

Paul R

While SC's may be a reasonable guide, every PAX on every Qantas flight is assigned a PCV rating.

It's a per flight rating given to each PAX. This takes into account various facets in relation to the passenger. Such facets may include but are not necessarily limited to:

• booking class
• FF status
• PNR associations
• SSRs

 

[serfty]

... can't see a reference to SSR...what does it mean??
Does it mean my list needs updating, if so is can you give me a link to follow??...

See post #124 of this thread.

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ming-past-curtain-use-32644-4.html#post486876

(I've also update the AaE's)

 

[Wakefield]

Its more a domestic flight issue because at least on QF long haul its the premium economy pax that are going to be upset with ey straying into their zone. Equally frustrating as full fare paying business class passenger, is knowing that you have upgrades, mates of the crew and other freeloaders sitting amongst you.
Ah doesn't make you nostalgic for the good old days of the line passenger ships when first class and steerage class were absolutely segregated and never allowed to mix during the voyage.

 

[Rebekkap]

Ah doesn't make you nostalgic for the good old days of the line passenger ships when first class and steerage class were absolutely segregated and never allowed to mix during the voyage.

Yes, life was so much better when people were born into a class and had no hope of rising above it. / sarcasm

 

[Favfern]

Its more a domestic flight issue because at least on QF long haul its the premium economy pax that are going to be upset with ey straying into their zone. Equally frustrating as full fare paying business class passenger, is knowing that you have upgrades, mates of the crew and other freeloaders sitting amongst you.
Ah doesn't make you nostalgic for the good old days of the line passenger ships when first class and steerage class were absolutely segregated and never allowed to mix during the voyage.

Ah, nostalgia! Don't worry about first class and steerage! When I was a QF Flight Steward in the late 60's and IATA kept a tight fist on what pax could and could not receive, you could forget all about an economy pax using the First Class loo (no Business Class in those days); we could be just about fired if we gave a First Class apple to a child sitting in economy! We were also told that IATA inspectors might be on the flight incognito to catch us out with the apple! Never really found out if that was true or not.

 

[dom_tyro]

I have to agree with the OP on this thread regarding the use of facilities in J, by Y passengers regardless of status.
I'm currently PS hitting SG for the first time in November and a FF with QF for close on 20 years. I've flown F domestically a few times over the years ( at my own expense ) and with work I travel Y and have just last week returned from a holiday RT to the USA (1st time flying QJ internationally) on a classic award and returning LA via Hawaii on HA in F. I know this thread is aimed at domestic flights but I believe the same should be determined for international as well.
I chose this time to fly J/F for the very reasons flying in a higher class are afforded the passenger - Dedicated check in, exclusive business lounge, dedicated boarding lane, business cabin that's all about comfort and flexibility, decide when you like to dine and use of the amenities that are provided. My lowly PS status did not come into play at all on these flights nor should they, I was treated like all other passengers in J and even more-so as I travel with a CPap machine and was quite blown away at the lengths the crew went to to make me comfortable. I may have used points to get the first flight but I earned those points, paid the taxes and surcharge and utilised those points for the sake of comfort and luxury not normally afforded to me.
Did I enjoy it? DAMN RIGHT I DID However, Mrs Tyro is now a snob after experiencing the joys of F/J and has asserted that she will never again fly anything less:-| (I've created a monster here )

But I digress.....on both flights I did notice the misuse of the F/J lavatories by Y passengers and up until this point, I didn't even have an opinion on this issue. I'd done numerous international flights in Y over the years on a variety of carriers and never even entertained the thought to head to the front for a slash (albeit I was single and could drink like a fish back then). To me that was the domain of the rich/famous/well-to-do.

And agreed with some past comments regarding circumstances where lav use by Y pax is understandable in some situations, I did noticed one Y woman utilise the J lav on a number of occasions and only realising she was Y after about the 4th use of the lav when I stood after she passed my seat and watched her head back through the curtain. I felt affronted, even violated as a J pax, to have this "commoner" invade our space and use our J facilities:shock: ( well, maybe not so affronted & violated as perturbed that this sort of misuse was allowed to occur). But it did make me think, I've spent good money/points to have the privileged use of these facilities, yet those that chose not to spend are allowed to use the same? There's something wrong with this picture!

And so to wrap up, as I step down from my soap box, and without intentionally antagonising or offending the WP's on this site and after experiencing both sides of the fence,......my belief is that when you fly in Y.....that's your domain for the flight, your status stops at the cabin door. You get priority check-in/boarding, lounge access etc pre-flight as you should.
As a Y passenger you don't get to sit up front in a wider seat with more legroom, you don't get a pre-flight drink or a nicer dining option along with the more attentive service! So why would you expect to use the amenities available in this part of the plane that are made available to those that have paid for the privilege?

As for me, I'm back to the rear of the plane for all my toiletries until I either win lotto or get a 2nd job to pay for the next big OS holiday

 

[Rono]

Serfty,

I have my list of AFF abbreviations tucked into the back of my business diary.....can't see a reference to SSR...what does it mean??
Does it mean my list needs updating, if so is can you give me a link to follow??

regards

Paul R

Serfty, got the new list, thanks.

 

[Old Dynamite]

Row 4 or 24 - it is just arrogance. Pay the fare/use points, or b***** off.

But do get the same socialist attitude in general from people who do not want anyone to pay extra, but think that they entitled to services they do not pay for. These people usually use handicapped parking spaces without reason also, jump queues, drive down the Emergency Lane and cut in, etc.

 

[Rebekkap]

Row 4 or 24 - it is just arrogance. Pay the fare/use points, or b***** off.

But do get the same socialist attitude in general from people who do not want anyone to pay extra, but think that they entitled to services they do not pay for. These people usually use handicapped parking spaces without reason also, jump queues, drive down the Emergency Lane and cut in, etc.

That's about as far from a socialist attitude as you can get - I think you might need to look the word up in a dictionary.

 

[whughes3]

In all these responses, nobody seems to have mentioned a basic underlying problem: namely, that all single-aisle planes have the "amenities" (galleys/toilets etc) only at the extreme front and back, unlike in twin-aisle planes where there are usually such facilities in the centre of the plane as well. Is there some good reason for this, or is it just convention?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

In all these responses, nobody seems to have mentioned a basic underlying problem: namely, that all single-aisle planes have the "amenities" (galleys/toilets etc) only at the extreme front and back, unlike in twin-aisle planes where there are usually such facilities in the centre of the plane as well. Is there some good reason for this, or is it just convention?

It's mainly based on cost... having your galleys and lavatories located together at the front and rear of the aircraft mean that all your plumbing supplies are co-located. You then have a nice long clear cabin with minimal additional hardware requirements. It's also a case that the classic 737 models were fairly short... so not too far for anyone to walk. Many earlier aircraft were also sold as having the ability for 'quick change' - where you could remove passenger seating and replace it with cargo capacity. Having seats only between the forward and aft doors made this fairly simple.

There are single aisle aircraft with mid cabin lavs.. B757s spring to mind, and also airlines such as Continental have a 'mid' cabin lav (at the bulkhead between First and coach) on their 737-900s as does US Airways on their A321s (further down in the coach section).

 

[straitman]

Row 4 or 24 - it is just arrogance. Pay the fare/use points, or b***** off.

But do get the same socialist attitude in general from people who do not want anyone to pay extra, but think that they entitled to services they do not pay for. These people usually use handicapped parking spaces without reason also, jump queues, drive down the Emergency Lane and cut in, etc.

Calm down Old Dynamite,

That is a whole lot of generalisations and assumptions all wrapped up in two lines.

 

[Pushka]

I would never dare use a handicapped parking spot, because it is legislated that those spaces are for people with a disability that is registered with the Government. I would never use an emergency lane because that is dangerous and unacceptable and legislated for.

In a single aisle plane, which is all Adelaide people seem to get, if there is a blockage in the aisle, and it is not going to clear for a while, and I need to use the loo (on a long flight, not just across to Melboune) or if I was unwell, AND there is no curtain in place (again, usually the situation in flights from Adelaide) then I WILL use the forward loo because last time I looked, there is no written policy that prevents me from using it. And no sign on the door that prevents it either.

You say Business class people have paid more for their seats, of course that is the case. But that payment is for better service, nice food that is actually edible, and better quality seats. No mention of exclusive use of the forward loos. So you havent paid for that. No matter how you argue it, you will not find that as a service anywhere.

I will add that I hate using any loos on planes and will do my best to avoid using them at any time.

 

[OverrideServlet]

if there is a blockage in the aisle, and it is not going to clear for a while, and I need to use the loo (on a long flight, not just across to Melboune) or if I was unwell, AND there is no curtain in place (again, usually the situation in flights from Adelaide) then I WILL use the forward loo because last time I looked, there is no written policy that prevents me from using it. And no sign on the door that prevents it either.

Would you theoretically still do this if it was announced shortly after take-off that economy passengers should use the toilets at the rear of the plane?

They don't do this announcement all the time. I'm just curious as to whether or not people need to see something in writing before they will acknowledge it.

 

[Lynnelanne]

On a slight tangent, I just came off a business class overnight flight on a 747 Melb-HKG. I have never queued so long to use a toilet in economy class! Only two for all those people and people taking forever to change into bloody pyjamas. I actually needed to use the toilet as a toilet, not a changeroom and considered going to economy. I wonder if they would have complained :shock:

 

[drron]

I would never dare use a handicapped parking spot, because it is legislated that those spaces are for people with a disability that is registered with the Government. I would never use an emergency lane because that is dangerous and unacceptable and legislated for.

In a single aisle plane, which is all Adelaide people seem to get, if there is a blockage in the aisle, and it is not going to clear for a while, and I need to use the loo (on a long flight, not just across to Melboune) or if I was unwell, AND there is no curtain in place (again, usually the situation in flights from Adelaide) then I WILL use the forward loo because last time I looked, there is no written policy that prevents me from using it. And no sign on the door that prevents it either.

You say Business class people have paid more for their seats, of course that is the case. But that payment is for better service, nice food that is actually edible, and better quality seats. No mention of exclusive use of the forward loos. So you havent paid for that. No matter how you argue it, you will not find that as a service anywhere.

I will add that I hate using any loos on planes and will do my best to avoid using them at any time.

Flown on a QF 767?There is a sign on the divider between J and Y saying Business class passengers only except in an emergency.So QF do believe at least on the 767 that J pax do pay for that privilege.
Still didn't stop the suit in 23J trying to go through the curtain even though the Y loo was closer.

 

[BadgerBoi]

On a slight tangent, I just came off a business class overnight flight on a 747 Melb-HKG. I have never queued so long to use a toilet in economy class! Only two for all those people and people taking forever to change into bloody pyjamas. I actually needed to use the toilet as a toilet, not a changeroom and considered going to economy. I wonder if they would have complained :shock:

If you were in the bubble you could have tried downstairs J toilets, or vice-versa I guess. I've been astonished at the length of time some people take.

 

[abstraction]

I've been astonished at the length of time some people take.

Me too. Once i get in i'm looking for the shower or secret door to a bar/nightclub, because i can't think why else they'd be in there so long.

 

[Stephen65]

You say Business class people have paid more for their seats, of course that is the case. But that payment is for better service, nice food that is actually edible, and better quality seats. No mention of exclusive use of the forward loos. So you havent paid for that. No matter how you argue it, you will not find that as a service anywhere.

When people pay for J class they are paying for J class seats in the J class cabin with J class service. Being in the J class cabin gives you an assortment of minor benefits - e.g. better ratio of PAs/pax, first off the aircraft and access to the toilets physically located in the J cabin which have a far lower pax/toilet ratio than those in Y. These minor benefits don't have to be spelled out as they come with buying a J class ticket. Another minor J benefit is peace and quiet - i.e you can be reasonably assured that your aisle is not going to be filled with lounging Y passengers.

I'm sympathetic to Y passengers whose access is blocked to the Y toilets and who for whatever reason have to go - as far as I am concerned they can use the J toilets. Otherwise if you want the benefits of J class then pay for it.