Platinum "anytime" lounge Access ceases from 1 February 2011

[medhead]

Well my next chance to test the ADL QP is not for a few weeks. I'll be arriving there but, of course the QP seems to shut at about 7 pm, despite there being Jetstar flights later in the night.

Anyway, in case people missed it during the profit discussion (by selected people ) ADL has so far checked me 100% of the time (small sample of 2).

The second time was arrival access into ADL, that caused some trouble with swiping (not scanning) my card and then getting confused about which flight I was on. I was told that I must keep my BP after explaining that I'd just arrived. When I replied that my card was the BP, the CSA said something like "oh, that is that thing there that we have to use" indicating a scanner on the counter that wasn't even turned on. :shock:

It will be interesting to see how long the police act endures at ADL QP.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Here, here. I would only add that whether it was alleged overcrowding or alleged giving of 'free kicks' to its competitors, QF appears to have absolutely no statistics on anytime access usage (save for some reports of a tally sheet at the lounge in CNS, hardly an appropriate cross-section).

I'll be point all this out in my second letter to QF, hopefully later this month, once the new rules have had time to kick in (or, fingers crossed, not) and, hopefully, more people have made their discontent heard.

I believe whilst overcrowding may at times have been an issue & has continued to be an issue after 01Feb, this has nothing whatsoever to do with ATA users, QF just thought WPs would be stupid enough to swallow their excuse hook, line & sinker.

It wasn't until Red Roo said "maybe they're concerned about giving a 'free kick' to their competitors ie DJ that the real truth behind ATA removal was revealed. :evil:

 

[JohnK]

JohnK, you're entitled to express your unhappiness with what QF has done. You've called QF greedy and dishonest, and hope they suffer financially, etc. etc. Fine. If you're that unhappy, then I'd suggest you take your own advice (from the first para above) - go to another airline. Vote with your feet!

It is possible to go to another airline but I am not getting younger and I have too much time and money invested in the QFF program. I am ~4 years away from Lifetime Gold which is a decent achievement in it's own right for someone like me.

Also I do not want to start at another airline from scratch and would not even know where to begin. And I don't want to use one airline for domestic and another airline for international and unfortunately in my opinion DJ is not quite ready to handle both.

And it will be a cold day in hell before you will see me using JQ or TT for my flying needs....

 

[Smackbum]

It is possible to go to another airline but I am not getting younger and I have too much time and money invested in the QFF program. I am ~4 years away from Lifetime Gold which is a decent achievement in it's own right for someone like me.

Also I do not want to start at another airline from scratch and would not even know where to begin. And I don't want to use one airline for domestic and another airline for international and unfortunately in my opinion DJ is not quite ready to handle both.

And it will be a cold day in hell before you will see me using JQ or TT for my flying needs....

So it looks like Qantas has you by the golden-handcuffs. So that's 1-nil and I suspect that the same can be said of most.

I may have said it before (I can't be bothered checking that I did because this thread is waayyyyyy too long) but can I mention a few observations :-

1. The removal of ATA access will irrefutably lead to less crowding in the lounges because firstly people wouldn't bleat so constantly about it if they never used it, and secondly there is (apparently) going to be a huge exodus to other carriers because of this change to the program.

2. I personally believe the change is logical and will make me more likely to fly Qantas, not less. On the other hand Virgin's status matching will make me less likely to fly them, as it would annoy me to think I was paying $35 for access to The Lounge whilst being surrounded by those that got it for free by whinging. Sort of turning everything on its head.

3. Actually there is no "3". I just want to reiterate that every page of this thread makes me more and more happy about this change to the T&C.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Qantas isn't greedy at all.... Removing ATA is actually costing them money!

Infact, they are doing us a favour by making it easier to try out the products other airlines have to offer. If it wasn't for ATA removal I would not have tried the new virgin lounges.... And they're not as bad as ihad thought and neither is flying DJ.

Next time I book a domestic trip, my first visit will be virginblue.com

 

[JohnK]

So it looks like Qantas has you by the golden-handcuffs. So that's 1-nil and I suspect that the same can be said of most.

Actually it is more like QF 3 - JK nil.

- Removal of upgrade credits
- Removal of the ability to pre-allocate exit row
- Removal of anytime access

3. Actually there is no "3". I just want to reiterate that every page of this thread makes me more and more happy about this change to the T&C.

And you are of course to entitled to your opinion. Just be aware though that the next thing QF 'enhances' their QFF program the change may irk you while others will not care.

Overall though we are all losing important benefits....

 

[JohnPhelan]

Just be aware though that the next thing QF 'enhances' their QFF program the change may irk you while others will not care.

This is an interesting point. What do people think (seriously, I mean) that QF's future 'enhancements' might be?

 

[aus_flyer]

This is an interesting point. What do people think (seriously, I mean) that QF's future 'enhancements' might be?

I'm reluctant to speculate.... I don't want to give them any ideas!

 

[straitman]

Really? I think there is a vast spectrum of WPs - flying a few F flights will bring in a lot more money to QF than someone doing 120 $100 SYD-MEL flights, or a WP doing some YUPPs in the US.

A lot of flying means nothing in terms of profits per se. The entire profit of a SYD-MEL JQ flight can be swallowed up with a couple of beers in the lounge prior to departure.

Think about the millions of seats that QF makes available each year. And then look at QF's profit (let's assume that freight makes no money whatsoever). What's the average profit/seat? Maybe $5? or $10? Probably less? Given that F / J have much higher margins, then the Y seats are making what? Next to nothing.

Increasing the amount of flying required is *not the answer* if each flight is not profitable for the airline. That's, perversely, a recipe for worse More closely aligning status with profitability would probably be in QF's interest. But I suspect that would generate howls of outrage. So in the interim, we'll continue to see erosion of benefits and continued inflation of redemption costs.

Don't shoot the messenger - I'm just stating what I think is obvious commercial reality.

AnonymousCoward,

You are still missing the point with this. I refer you back to my post #1002 on this thread.

Attracting the person who flies 120 times at $100 a time is extremely important to the airline as that is $12,000 they now have for minimal extra effort.

This is 'Yield Management 101' whether you wish to accept it or not. In reality it is a whole lot more complicated than this and the topic actually takes up most of a unit in an Aviation Management Masters Degree.

 

[JohnK]

This is an interesting point. What do people think (seriously, I mean) that QF's future 'enhancements' might be?

I believe something along the lines of increased SCs for Partner Gold, Platinum and Gold and perhaps a new level introduced above Platinum (which may well be Partner Gold) requiring something like 3,000-5,000 SCs and offering some of the things that have been taken away from Platinum.

In time this may well be the new Oneworld Emerald with current Platinum the new Oneworld Sapphire. And Gold.... well Gold will be the new Oneworld Ruby.... Sounds far fetched? A lot of the current 'enhancements' sounded far fetched before they were announced....

 

[AnonymousCoward]

Attracting the person who flies 120 times at $100 a time is extremely important to the airline as that is $12,000 they now have for minimal extra effort.

I've consistently said that these people are important. Just that they might not be [very] profitable.

There are many reasons why certain passengers are important: they might be brand ambassadors. They might be easy revenue. They might be highly profitable. They might have a very high public profile. And so on, and so on.

Important does not necessarily equal profitable. I'm not saying that WPs are not important.

This is 'Yield Management 101' whether you wish to accept it or not. In reality it is a whole lot more complicated than this and the topic actually takes up most of a unit in an Aviation Management Masters Degree.

Only in the short run: QF has a plane and they need to fill it. In the long run QF can buy a different plane (maybe a smaller one) and fill it with the higher yielding passengers. Or they can switch the route to Jetstar. Or any number of other responses.

 

[el_rooto]

I've consistently said that these people are important. Just that they might not be [very] profitable.

They are all important. If none of them flew with QF I doubt they would be very solvent.

 

[nlagalle]

Only in the short run: QF has a plane and they need to fill it. In the long run QF can buy a different plane (maybe a smaller one) and fill it with the higher yielding passengers. Or they can switch the route to Jetstar. Or any number of other responses.

Hence Yield Management. And i am gathering from your replies you don't understand how it works. If it didn't work, planes would be running very empty!

 

[AnonymousCoward]

Well I will continue to say it for years. Very poor decision and I don't really care what QF thinks it is going to save. Customer loyalty and continuity of benefits are a lot more important than saving a diet coke or a coffee from someone using Anytime Access to lounges.

OK - You keep thinking all the WPs on this forum are important to QF and I'll keep thinking that we aren't really all that important. Deal?

If QF "enhances" our program again in a couple of years, I won't be surprised. You are free to wail and gnash your teeth.

 

[straitman]

Hence Yield Management. And i am gathering from your replies you don't understand how it works. If it didn't work, planes would be running very empty!

.... or does not want to understand it!

Other than Air NZ ripping the guts out of Ansett they were on their knees, and did not realise, because their 'Yield Management' was so poor it took six months for their systems to feed back the information.

OK - You keep thinking all the WPs on this forum are important to QF and I'll keep thinking that we aren't really all that important. Deal?

If QF "enhances" our program again in a couple of years, I won't be surprised. You are free to wail and gnash your teeth.

Now this is quite a different topic and I can see the argument from both sides though I only completely agree with one of you.

 

[oz_mark]

Only in the short run: QF has a plane and they need to fill it. In the long run QF can buy a different plane (maybe a smaller one) and fill it with the higher yielding passengers.

Please identify the airlines that have been successful with premium only cabins?

The passengers may well be high yielding passengers, but there's not enough of them around.

 

[nlagalle]

Please identify the airlines that have been successful with premium only cabins?

The passengers may well be high yielding passengers, but there's not enough of them around.

Look how well OzJet did!

 

[el_rooto]

Please identify the airlines that have been successful with premium only cabins?

The passengers may well be high yielding passengers, but there's not enough of them around.

There are two routes I know of that use this at the moment. However they are a nieche.

 

[TonyHancock]

If QF "enhances" our program again in a couple of years, I won't be surprised. You are free to wail and gnash your teeth.

I'm not sure it is our program, as QF continue to demonstrate with their "enhancements".

.....and yes after 12 years of Qantas travel I will choose to air my feelings.

 

[dfcatch]

Ok ok....

1/ Anytime Access

Good for you if you are not affected by this change / couldn't care less / are happy with the change. But everybody who does care is entitled to voice their concerns.

To those complaining about the contributors to this thread - In your case - remind me to remind you how much of a "whinger" you are, and how "less important", and "not-profitable" you are when QF do remove a benefit in the future that you do care about.

Again - the MAIN ISSUE here for most people isn't necessarily Anytime Access, but that a published benefit has been "enhanced".

2/ Who is more important?

I couldn't care less, although Qantas might, and they have tools and methods and voodoo to deal with this - AKA "Altea". They clearly have a Perceived Customer Value (as Serfty and others have graciously gone into detail for our benefit). All businesses do similar things.

Two important points relevant to the same people who call everyone else "whingers":

A/. Status Credits have been carefully designed to classify those frequent flyers whom Qantas wish to identify as having value to them.
And their carefully crafted methodology accounts for those who do a couple of long-haul F trips and also those who fly 100 domestic red e-deals.

B/ The issue about profitability is irrelevant. What is relevant is that Qantas have a Frequent Flyer program which is a loyalty program designed to maintain the loyalty and continued custom of it's regular customers. As part of is strategy to achieve this - it offers benefits and inducements to keep its loyal customers happy and smiling (and ultimately spending).

3/ Qantas refers to these valuable customers as Platinums. Whether the F flyer once in a blue moon or the 100 red e-deal flyer is more profitable or valuable is QF's business.

However - receiving the published benefits in return for my adherence to my end of the bargain (achieving the required SC earn) - is my business.

Two things I don't suffer well:

1/ Fools
2/ People who berate others for having an opinion.

(you can disagree with someone else's opinion - but they are still entitled to it).