Platinum "anytime" lounge Access ceases from 1 February 2011

[JohnK]

I actually don't see anyone in the lounges. I either focus on my colleagues or myself - I pay no attention to anyone else.

Generally I am busy relaxing before a flight in the lounge as well but occasionally you see a person stand out because they think the world revolves around them.

No need to go into detail as I think we have all experienced this type of person in our travels....

 

[nlagalle]

What's the e-address? I wanted to send one as well, but gosh they make it to find an e-address from the website as I can't even find one!

Click on Contact Us --> FAQ's I selected Qantas Club and searched on compliant and I got a link to click on to email them.

This link may work:

http://qantas.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/...X2NjZl8zNj1sYWdhbGxlbkBod3QuY29tLmF1&p_srch=1

 

[Sequel]

Update on enforcement:

BNE Dom J, 6am Monday (hardly off-peak) - Waved though with a flash of the WP card (about to board JQ)

ADL QP 9:30am Monday - Flashed card. Female dragon asked for boarding pass. Replied I didn't have one (for 2 reasons, just arrived on JQ, and for my onward flight to MEL that night was planing to use the card at gate). Was told I couldn't come in without a boarding pass to which I replied the card is my boarding pass. Card swiped (on PC, not scanned with boarding pass reader). Allowed access (although from her face I assume she was wondering why I was at the lounge 8 hours before my flight). Same experience almost word for word as previously posted (by Medhead?), she will cotton on about the NGCI sooner or later!

ADL QP 12:00 Monday - Flashed card. Male dragon asked if I had printed my boarding pass to which I replied not yet. He took the card, swiped it, printed my boarding pass and waved me through.

Of the two approaches, the male dragons was allot less confronting/abrupt, but I guess that is why the got the monica "dragons"!

Will give the MEL QP/J a try tonight as an arrivals, this time with no onward flight showing in my profile (for a couple of days at least)

 

[nlagalle]

Update on enforcement:

BNE Dom J, 6am Monday (hardly off-peak) - Waved though with a flash of the WP card (about to board JQ)

ADL QP 9:30am Monday - Flashed card. Female dragon asked for boarding pass. Replied I didn't have one (for 2 reasons, just arrived on JQ, and for my onward flight to MEL that night was planing to use the card at gate). Was told I couldn't come in without a boarding pass to which I replied the card is my boarding pass. Card swiped (on PC, not scanned with boarding pass reader). Allowed access (although from her face I assume she was wondering why I was at the lounge 8 hours before my flight). Same experience almost word for word as previously posted (by Medhead?), she will cotton on about the NGCI sooner or later!

ADL QP 12:00 Monday - Flashed card. Male dragon asked if I had printed my boarding pass to which I replied not yet. He took the card, swiped it, printed my boarding pass and waved me through.

Of the two approaches, the male dragons was allot less confronting/abrupt, but I guess that is why the got the monica "dragons"!

Will give the MEL QP/J a try tonight as an arrivals, this time with no onward flight showing in my profile (for a couple of days at least)

So far it seems like ADL is enforcing it the most? Followed by PER..

 

[straitman]

Don't shoot the messenger - I'm just stating what I think is obvious commercial reality.

This is the crux of this part of the discussion. You are stating what you think is obvious commercial reality. Some others and myself have been stating what actually happens and it appears that until now you have not been getting the message. Your following post is getting toward the reality of the situation.

Let me lay it out as I see it, and for those that think they can explain it better, please educate me.

Yield Mangement is simple in principle - it's just complex to implement. By way of analogy: my brother is an actuary. One of their jobs is to provide analysis that shows whether it's possible to have profitable outcomes at what statistical probability. The principle is simple - it's the actual implementation that's complex and hard. Yield Management is about getting the most revenue out of each flight - it's the implementation (e.g. working out how many seats at what prices that's tricky).

...and different airlines implement Yield Management in different ways.

In the short run:
- Large capital items (like planes) are relatively fixed. You can't easily swap them around in QF's case (because they aren't on short term lease).
- Each flight has a fixed cost, and a variable cost per passenger. If you can't even cover your fixed costs, you might as well not fly, as each flight is just adding to your loss
- Each pax you put on board should at least cover their variable cost - otherwise each additional pax you are putting on board will add to your loss.
- Each pax that covers their variable cost, provides a "per-pax profit" that can be used to offset the fixed cost of the flight.
- If you get enough "per-pax profit" to cover all your fixed costs for the flight, then you've made a profit
- Fixed costs include flying the plane, plus all the overhead of running an airline (which needs to be apportioned amongst all the flights that the airline has)

Anything wrong with the above analysis?

Yes.

Each aircraft type on each flight has a fixed cost so an a/c substitution can a substantially add to or subtract from to the bottom line.
Frequently, as I posted earlier, an aircraft will operate with some passengers who have bought tickets below the (to use your term) the variable cost. These are subsidised by the passengers who have bought tickets at considerably higher than the variable cost. It is done this way so to get at least some return on seats that would otherwise go empty. An airline seat is the ultimate perishable item.

Next, a $300 fare provides more profit per pax than a $100 fare, all other things being equal (e.g. the class of service). A $300 K class ticket SYD-MEL is much more profitable (the per-pax profit above) than a $100 N class ticket SYD-MEL, because the variable cost in both cases is similar, whilst the revenue is much greater.

Correct. Similar is the right word as there are extra costs associated with the support of the dearer and consequently more flexible ticket.

In the long run:
- Capital is not fixed. Airlines can buy new planes, get rid of old ones, open new routes, ditch old routes, start up new subsidiaries etc.
- If a route was not profitable using a large aircraft, the airline can sub a smaller one. Or if there is huge demand, they can get a bigger plane
- Unfortunately there isn't a plane that has exactly the number of seats of just J and K class passengers - Boeing hasn't made that model yet, so the airline looks to fill the rest of the seats with cheaper passengers, provided they cover the variable cost of filling those seats.

Correct.

And in aggregate:
Ultimately how much profit the airline makes is shown in the P&L. Total seats/profit = profit/seat. If total profit is $100m and total seats are 10m, then average profit/seat is $10. That's simple maths. It does mean that the pax on a $300 K class ticket did contribute more to profit than the $100 N class ticket did.

It is actually measure as $ per seat mile which makes more sense if you think about it.

NOTE: I am not saying that QF should give up on the N class tickets. I am saying that the K class ticket is more profitable.

OK: what's wrong with the above? (No responses along the lines of "But what would happen if xyz?" Unless you're prepared to also provide an answer to the question)

The premise of your answer was good and just needed a bit of tweaking. As I said earlier, different airlines will play with this in different ways to make the stats give them what they want. What is really important though is that the Yield Management feedback loop is almost instantaneous. I was not kidding earlier in the thread when I said one of Ansett's major problems was its very slow Yield Management feedback loop which caused them to bleed profusely without knowing why. (Approx six months)

 

[samiam]

So far it seems like ADL is enforcing it the most? Followed by PER..

I reported last week that I entered PER twice in 2 days - did not scan card, just waved me through when I flashed.

 

[Fantic125]

, just waved me through when I flashed.

I assume you mean your card?

 

[JohnPhelan]

did not scan card, just waved me through when I flashed.

But did you flash the card at them as well?

 

[samiam]

But did you flash the card at them as well?

I assume you mean your card?

Umm yes (and thanks for the pickup) - I suspect I would have been permanently denied entry if I had flashed anything else

 

[medhead]

ADL QP 9:30am Monday - Flashed card. Female dragon asked for boarding pass. Replied I didn't have one (for 2 reasons, just arrived on JQ, and for my onward flight to MEL that night was planing to use the card at gate). Was told I couldn't come in without a boarding pass to which I replied the card is my boarding pass. Card swiped (on PC, not scanned with boarding pass reader). Allowed access (although from her face I assume she was wondering why I was at the lounge 8 hours before my flight). Same experience almost word for word as previously posted (by Medhead?), she will cotton on about the NGCI sooner or later!

ADL QP 12:00 Monday - Flashed card. Male dragon asked if I had printed my boarding pass to which I replied not yet. He took the card, swiped it, printed my boarding pass and waved me through.

Of the two approaches, the male dragons was allot less confronting/abrupt, but I guess that is why the got the monica "dragons"!

Sounds very much like my experience with ADL. BUt the first time the lady did take the approach of the male - "Have you printed your BP". As the card is supposed to be the BP, I'm going to take that position in my reply in future. Otherwise, get them to check me in.... :idea:

 

[AnonymousCoward]

Frequently, as I posted earlier, an aircraft will operate with some passengers who have bought tickets below the (to use your term) the variable cost.

Hi,

Variable cost is not my term. It's a well known term in both business and economics. Variable cost - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Variable costs vary as quantity changes (e.g. meals provided vary with the number of passengers). Fixed costs remain the same regardless of the number of passengers (e.g. maintenance required per hour of flying, or pilot's wages)

There is no point selling below variable cost (except perhaps for PR purposes - e.g. a loss leader). If you can not cover variable costs, your business will fail in the short run, because each additional passenger you add will lose you more money - it's better *not* to have any passengers.

If you can cover variable cost in the short run, but not your fixed costs, then you will fail in the long run. That's Economics (and business) 101.

To remain viable, both variable and fixed costs need to be covered.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I believe a contributing factor to the demise of PanAm was they had no yield management for the First Class cabin so it was not uncommon on some flights to have a full F cabin comprising solely of pax either on World Pass (their ff program) award tickets and airline staff.

Obviously any airline that adopts this policy will go into the red very quickly.

 

[oz_mark]

Next, a $300 fare provides more profit per pax than a $100 fare, all other things being equal (e.g. the class of service). A $300 K class ticket SYD-MEL is much more profitable (the per-pax profit above) than a $100 N class ticket SYD-MEL, because the variable cost in both cases is similar, whilst the revenue is much greater.

Here's the thing. You could just sell 'K' class tickets, but you would end up with a lot of empty seats. At the other end, you could try to just sell 'N' class tickets - you might fill the plane, but you may not make much money. The best approach is to get the mix of 'K' and 'N' correct to maximise the revenue for the flight as a whole.

Revenue maximisation is about getting each passenger to pay the maximum they are willing to pay.

 

[sydney_kings]

From my observations, ADL seems to check for your boarding pass as they are still yet to implement NGCI, therefore a boarding pass is mandatory.

I usually get into SYD using just the card and use the card to board my flight

 

[medhead]

From my observations, ADL seems to check for your boarding pass as they are still yet to implement NGCI, therefore a boarding pass is mandatory.

That does really explain it as a boarding pass is not mandatory in ADL. Do online check in and then scan the FF card at the gate, this works. Also BNE, MEL and CBR don't have NGCI and boarding passes are not checked according to reports.

 

[simongr]

Hi,

Variable cost is not my term. It's a well known term in both business and economics. Variable cost - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All costs are variable in the long term.

I actually what is key around yield management is marginal benefit and marginal cost. If running a full crew then the marginal cost of an extra pax will will be negligible (couple of beers and a small amount of fuel) so the marginal benefit will be the entire value of the tickets less the few $ for food/fuel. If running a flight that is on the upper limit for crew and one extra pax means one extra crew member then the marginal cost might be substantial.

Nothing in this game is simple and the variables are so numerous that I think to say that one pax is absolutely more profitable than another is misleading. To flip the statements around as well if the J/F pax revenue is allocated to getting the aircraft in the air then the flight might break even so every pax in whY is then the profit...

 

[ozbeachbabe]

From my observations, ADL seems to check for your boarding pass as they are still yet to implement NGCI, therefore a boarding pass is mandatory.

I usually get into SYD using just the card and use the card to board my flight

This point may have escaped the ADL lounge dragons, however if an airport has not yet cutover to NGCI you do not have to have a paper boarding pass if you use mobile checkin.

If you have a phone that supports the 2D barcode that is sent to your phone when doing mobile checkin all you do is arrive at the airport & go straight to the gate. Hold the phone under the scanner then it will print out a docket which you take with you & present to the CSM on boarding.

Wonder what would happen at ADL QP next time a lounge dragon asks for the boarding pass & you say "it's not necessary as I did mobile checkin & I just scan my card at the boarding gate"?

When they say you need to have a boarding pass printed, that's not the case but only serves as written confirmation for their benefit that you do have a flight booked on the day otherwise it's your word against theirs.

That does really explain it as a boarding pass is not mandatory in ADL. Do online check in and then scan the FF card at the gate, this works. Also BNE, MEL and CBR don't have NGCI and boarding passes are not checked according to reports.

Does scanning your ff card at the boarding gate print out the docket with your seat number on it? If not you will need a boarding pass reprinted at the gate to show the CSM when you get onboard.

There can also be a bit of confusion when people OCLI then have the image of their boarding pass on their phone as the scanner will board you however unlike mobile checkin, AFAIK it still will not print out a docket so you will need a boarding pass reprint at the gate.

 

[samiam]

Does scanning your ff card at the boarding gate print out the docket with your seat number on it?

ZZzZzzZ... yield management... ZZzZZZz

...In my experience, yes scanning your card at the gate does produce a docket. I have not printed a BP for the past 5 or 6 flights.....ZZzzZzZZ

 

[drewbles]

ZZzZzzZ... yield management... ZZzZZZz

This is getting very off topic here, it's about any time access not yield management (Which as samiam points out, is snoozeworthy and has been discussed here ad nauseum countless times and all with similar conjecture and argument )

 

[medhead]

Wonder what would happen at ADL QP next time a lounge dragon asks for the boarding pass & you say "it's not necessary as I did mobile checkin & I just scan my card at the boarding gate"?

Does scanning your ff card at the boarding gate print out the docket with your seat number on it? If not you will need a boarding pass reprinted at the gate to show the CSM when you get onboard.

There can also be a bit of confusion when people OCLI then have the image of their boarding pass on their phone as the scanner will board you however unlike mobile checkin, AFAIK it still will not print out a docket so you will need a boarding pass reprint at the gate.

I cut out a bit of your post as you have covered the situation well. To answer your questions, yes scanning the QFF card does get a shopper docket at the gate in ADL.

The second time I tried this at the QP I noticed they had a scanner on the desk. I assume they are supposed to be using this for mobile check in and NG cards. However, the scanner appeared to be turned off.

If using OLCI and NG card they is no need to have the PDF boarding pass on your phone. But I just realised I should be collecting those PDFs.