Predictions of when international flights may resume/bans lifted

[mrfreeze]

An interesting coincidence on October 31 this year.Covid deaths until then-907.Flu deaths until then-36.Total-943.

Flu deaths for the same period last year.yes 943.

And approx. 310,000 laboratory-confirmed flu notifications compared to 28,000 Covid cases in Australia.

But death rate is higher when taken as a percentage of infections for Covid.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Another thing is that there are still a lot of Australians stranded overseas and I am sure they want to come back once the borders are open. So how are you going to ensure they are vaccinated before arrival, especially those who come from countries where vaccines is not available?

I would say as long as such a policy is legislated, I am going to find some lawyers to challenge this at court and prosecute the government for assaulting Australians with a vaccine.

Coronavirus does not kill young people, so young people should not get vaccinated so to save vaccines for those who need it.

The vaccine can never be mandatory for Australians to enter Australia. Australia *must* accept its citizens if they arrive at the border. (The PM has also said the vaccine will not be mandatory for people living in Australia.)

So assuming an Australian can get to the border, they will be let in. If they choose to go into quarantine rather than have the vaccination, that's perfectly fine

Your example does however highlight one of the issues around airlines saying they won't fly someone unless they've been vaccinated. While non-citizens may require vaccination to enter Australia, and the airline can refuse to carry those non-citizens in the event they aren't vaccinated, the same can't be said for citizens. So I'm not even sure Qantas would be able to write that into their terms and conditions.

While covid may not kill young people, they can certainly carry and pass it on. have you considered how you would feel if you passed covid on to your parents and they became seriously ill?

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

The vaccine can never be mandatory for Australians to enter Australia. Australia *must* accept its citizens if they arrive at the border. (The PM has also said the vaccine will not be mandatory for people living in Australia.)

So assuming an Australian can get to the border, they will be let in. If they choose to go into quarantine rather than have the vaccination, that's perfectly fine

Your example does however highlight one of the issues around airlines saying they won't fly someone unless they've been vaccinated. While non-citizens may require vaccination to enter Australia, and the airline can refuse to carry those non-citizens in the event they aren't vaccinated, the same can't be said for citizens. So I'm not even sure Qantas would be able to write that into their terms and conditions.

While covid may not kill young people, they can certainly carry and pass it on. have you considered how you would feel if you passed covid on to your parents and they became seriously ill?

Not sure what you are basing this on when there is no bill of rights in this country

 

[VPS]

Another thing is that there are still a lot of Australians stranded overseas and I am sure they want to come back once the borders are open. So how are you going to ensure they are vaccinated before arrival, especially those who come from countries where vaccines is not available?

I would say as long as such a policy is legislated, I am going to find some lawyers to challenge this at court and prosecute the government for assaulting Australians with a vaccine.

Coronavirus does not kill young people, so young people should not get vaccinated so to save vaccines for those who need it.

You keep saying Coronavirus doesn't kill young people but it does and many of them have side effects that will affect them for the rest of their lives

 

[N860CR]

You keep saying Coronavirus doesn't kill young people but it does and many of them have side effects that will affect them for the rest of their lives

There is extremely little evidence to support this.

 

[CityRail]

The vaccine can never be mandatory for Australians to enter Australia. Australia *must* accept its citizens if they arrive at the border. (The PM has also said the vaccine will not be mandatory for people living in Australia.)

So assuming an Australian can get to the border, they will be let in. If they choose to go into quarantine rather than have the vaccination, that's perfectly fine

Your example does however highlight one of the issues around airlines saying they won't fly someone unless they've been vaccinated. While non-citizens may require vaccination to enter Australia, and the airline can refuse to carry those non-citizens in the event they aren't vaccinated, the same can't be said for citizens. So I'm not even sure Qantas would be able to write that into their terms and conditions.

While covid may not kill young people, they can certainly carry and pass it on. have you considered how you would feel if you passed covid on to your parents and they became seriously ill?

Well that's right. Another issue is at the initial stage of vaccine rollout where there may even not enough vaccines for people in the country, so how can we ensure citizens/PR will be able to get vaccinated if they wish to, and yet they were not able to get vaccinated in their own country?

Furthermore, I would agree that healthcare workers and those who are at risk should get vaccinated first, but those who work in crucial sector gets it third will significantly affect the ability for us to get vaccinated early and leave Australia as soon as possible.

I think if Qantas is so eager to get its international passengers vaccinated, they better have vaccination centres at domestic airport and give priority to Platinum One, Platinum, Gold and Silver flyers to get vaccinated so that we can fly Qantas to escape this country.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

There is extremely little evidence to support this.

Ok about 1000 dead from 2.2m cases - 18-29 age group in the US

 

[CityRail]

On the other hand, whilst we are discussing vaccination for entry I would wonder how travel will be possible at the initial stage of vaccine availability or after vaccine is approved and not yet (or rarely) available.

I would say we need to have discussions of travel bubble and ensure we will be able to fly to NZ and other Asian countries such as Singapore to ensure we are the first to resume some kind of international travel in the region. Without that, I am really afraid international students will abandon Australia and there will be huge job losses in the HE sector.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Not sure what you are basing this on when there is no bill of rights in this country

Australians' right of entry isn't to do with an Australian bill of rights... it's based in international customary law and to an extent the Covenant of Civil and Political Rights.

As for compulsory vaccination for residents of Australia, the ABC produced a piece considering the many issues involved: 'You can't be held down': Why a mandatory COVID-19 vaccine is unlikely in Australia (bottom line is that it would probably be a tough call, and probably unlikely to succeed).

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

Australians' right of entry isn't to do with an Australian bill of rights... it's based in international customary law and to an extent the Covenant of Civil and Political Rights.

As for compulsory vaccination for residents of Australia, the ABC produced a piece considering the many issues involved: 'You can't be held down': Why a mandatory COVID-19 vaccine is unlikely in Australia (bottom line is that it would probably be a tough call, and probably unlikely to succeed).

"based" "to an extent" "unlikely"
doesnt sound like black letter law to me

 

[MEL_Traveller]

On the other hand, whilst we are discussing vaccination for entry I would wonder how travel will be possible at the initial stage of vaccine availability or after vaccine is approved and not yet (or rarely) available.

It may not be possible to travel at the early stages while a vaccine is being rolled out. That's just the way it goes. The government has stated that all Australians that want vaccination should be by the end of 2021.

So yes, health care workers may well be able to have their holiday in Bali while those wanting to travel on business may have to wait a bit longer. But in a way, perhaps that's fair?

 

[N860CR]

Ok about 1000 dead from 2.2m cases - 18-29 age group in the US

Thanks for looking that up for me. So yes, basically has no impact on the young. I believe one of the cases we put down to COVID here was a drug overdose.

The line “it kills young people as well and scars them for life!” is dragged out for nothing more than scaremongering.

As we proved in Australia, control the virus and it’s just an aged care issue. Yet we don’t accept we have a problem managing aged care.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

"based" "to an extent" "unlikely"
doesnt sound like black letter law to me

But that's the way it works

 

[MEL_Traveller]

As we proved in Australia, control the virus and it’s just an aged care issue. Yet we don’t accept we have a problem managing aged care.

What we proved in Australia is that an 'aged care issue' is an 'all of us' issue.

 

[N860CR]

What we proved in Australia is that an 'aged care issue' is an 'all of us' issue.

Correct. Had we dedicated the effort we put into policing border closures into aged care, then we would have had a much better result.

 

[CityRail]

It may not be possible to travel at the early stages while a vaccine is being rolled out. That's just the way it goes. The government has stated that all Australians that want vaccination should be by the end of 2021.

So yes, health care workers may well be able to have their holiday in Bali while those wanting to travel on business may have to wait a bit longer. But in a way, perhaps that's fair?

Despite I agree healthcare workers may be able to have their holiday earlier, I don't agree with the third category of people where so call those working in crucial sectors get it first.

I definitely won't agree with train drivers, bus drivers, or those who work in a slaughterhouse etc those without university degree and/or professional accreditation and no need to travel interstate and internationally for their job to get their jab first before those who need does. This is just not how our economy and society works.

Moreover, I also don't think it is fair for Australia to open travel to the US and Europe at the same time as to Asia and NZ. Surely the government should find a way to open two-way travel to NZ first, followed by safe Asian countries before to the rest of the world, where there is still some risk of coronavirus whilst people in Australia are getting vaccinated, right?

That's where I think even we are talking travel post-vaccine, there should be discussion and some policy with travel pre-vaccine or at early stages to ensure our economy keeps going.

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

Despite I agree healthcare workers may be able to have their holiday earlier, I don't agree with the third category of people where so call those working in crucial sectors get it first.

I definitely won't agree with train drivers, bus drivers, or those who work in a slaughterhouse etc those without university degree and/or professional accreditation and no need to travel interstate and internationally for their job to get their jab first before those who need does. This is just not how our economy and society works.

Moreover, I also don't think it is fair for Australia to open travel to the US and Europe at the same time as to Asia and NZ. Surely the government should find a way to open two-way travel to NZ first, followed by safe Asian countries before to the rest of the world, where there is still some risk of coronavirus whilst people in Australia are getting vaccinated, right?

That's where I think even we are talking travel post-vaccine, there should be discussion and some policy with travel pre-vaccine or at early stages to ensure our economy keeps going.

CityRail, mate, you are all over the shop
want a vaccine, dont want a needle, want your family vaccinated, want travel, want to only open up to NZ, jesus pick something and stick with it.

also, get this vaccine cracking in Jan so I can see my family again plzandthanks

 

[ayushamity]

also, get this vaccine cracking in Jan so I can see my family again plzandthanks

I am still a little bit peeved that they say Oxford only ready by March. I mean, they will have the first batch ready by Dec 28(4 mill doses) and say TGA approval by late Jan.

Doesn't make sense. You would think they would start vaccinating by late Jan/Feb, especially that Oxford is easer to distribute to GP's etc

 

[CityRail]

I am still a little bit peeved that they say Oxford only ready by March. I mean, they will have the first batch ready by Dec 28(4 mill doses) and say TGA approval by late Jan.

Doesn't make sense. You would think they would start vaccinating by late Jan/Feb, especially that Oxford is easer to distribute to GP's etc

Perhaps that has something to do with expectation management?

If you are too definite and say it comes in Jan/Feb and it doesn't deliver, then people will start complaining at you.

Better say it will be rolled out in March, the same time as Pfizer vaccine and give everyone a welcoming surprise that it actually delivered earlier.

 

[ayushamity]

Perhaps that has something to do with expectation management?

If I have learnt anything about the inept government we have in this country, everything gets delayed - case in point. international borders.

Whats the bet roll out does not start until April or May...