Predictions of when international flights may resume/bans lifted

[burmans]

Howard Springs capacity to be more than doubled. I think everyone knew this was going to happen but it has now become official. The PM, Scott Morrison, also announced on a radio interview I heard that W.A & Qsld were accepting the same levels of people for hotel quarantine as before their ' lockdowns'. The W.A increase had already been reported over here.

Howard Springs quarantine facility set to more than double in capacity

The Northern Territory's Howard Springs quarantine facility will soon be responsible for quarantining 15 per cent of all Australians returning on international repatriation flights.

www.abc.net.au

I know some here want us to be positive but this is about 9 months too late. Are we supposed to be positive about this?

 

[dajop]

Howard Springs capacity to be more than doubled. I think everyone knew this was going to happen but it has now become official.

Aah, hadn't the government previously announced that they were going to make an announcement about this?

 

[hb13]

I know some here want us to be positive but this is about 9 months too late. Are we supposed to be positive about this?

Agreed. This is bad news because it means the government is planning to keep caps and the ban on international travel likely for much longer than initially anticipated.

 

[N860CR]

Agreed. This is bad news because it means the government is planning to keep caps and the ban on international travel likely for much longer than initially anticipated.

Had to happen. There were too many issues with the existing systems and they won’t be expanded. This just means a temporary facility will be expanded (expensive, but still cheaper than lockdowns) and Qantas will get more crew and planes back into service to run further charters. Better than everybody flying in on Qatar.

Qantas have just been pushing to have the government pay for “pilot and engineer recurrency training”. This will do exactly that.

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

Soon as vaccines are across the majority of populations, the public will stop 'playing the game' and the only place a positive covid test will pop up is in a hospital, which will be much reduced once vaccines are throughout the population, and all this over the top nonesense is going to disappear. Wont be in time for my trip this year but i reckon everything is open slather by christmas, EU by Sep / Oct

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Had to happen. There were too many issues with the existing systems and they won’t be expanded. This just means a temporary facility will be expanded (expensive, but still cheaper than lockdowns) and Qantas will get more crew and planes back into service to run further charters. Better than everybody flying in on Qatar.

Qantas have just been pushing to have the government pay for “pilot and engineer recurrency training”. This will do exactly that.

And also provide some employment. Staffing the expanded facility will hopefully provide much needed jobs.

 

[N860CR]

Soon as vaccines are across the majority of populations, the public will stop 'playing the game' and the only place a positive covid test will pop up is in a hospital, which will be much reduced once vaccines are throughout the population, and all this over the top nonesense is going to disappear. Wont be in time for my trip this year but i reckon everything is open slather by christmas, EU by Sep / Oct

It’ll be very hard to justify otherwise, especially if the brits are jetting off to
Malaga enmasse in July.

I’ve just booked family in the UK to come over for Xmas ($4k return in J on SQ as well... so there are bargains to be had!). It’s only March, look how much we’ve progressed in a few months... surely we’re getting close to being offered a road out.

 

[Kimpos]

Never mind Howard Springs, when is Melbourne going to take international arrivals again? In the interests of full disclosure, I admit I have a vested interest- I have had many flights cancelled from US to MEL, I'm anxious to see my family, especially my 23 year old. The whole state based approach and elimination strategy is beyond ridiculous (what happened to flatten the curve?). It is just so incredibly frustrating to feel as though there is positive indicators to a return to a more 'normal' way of life in this part of the world while Dan Andrews perpetuates the fear factor (and I say this having lost a family member to covid last year in aged care in Melbourne). If the vaccine rollout isn't going to re-instate personal choice and freedoms, what is it going to take?
I'm keen to book tickets home for Christmas, but its incredibly expensive due to limited choice of flights (I can't imagine how difficult it must be for airlines atm) and not knowing if we have to plan for 2 weeks in quarantine

 

[Flashback]

Never mind Howard Springs, when is Melbourne going to take international arrivals again? In the interests of full disclosure, I admit I have a vested interest- I have had many flights cancelled from US to MEL, I'm anxious to see my family, especially my 23 year old. The whole state based approach and elimination strategy is beyond ridiculous (what happened to flatten the curve?). It is just so incredibly frustrating to feel as though there is positive indicators to a return to a more 'normal' way of life in this part of the world while Dan Andrews perpetuates the fear factor (and I say this having lost a family member to covid last year in aged care in Melbourne). If the vaccine rollout isn't going to re-instate personal choice and freedoms, what is it going to take?
I'm keen to book tickets home for Christmas, but its incredibly expensive due to limited choice of flights (I can't imagine how difficult it must be for airlines atm) and not knowing if we have to plan for 2 weeks in quarantine

Availability from the UK using miles was very plentiful, maybe look at that from the US if you have some available?

 

[hb13]

Never mind Howard Springs, when is Melbourne going to take international arrivals again? In the interests of full disclosure, I admit I have a vested interest- I have had many flights cancelled from US to MEL, I'm anxious to see my family, especially my 23 year old. The whole state based approach and elimination strategy is beyond ridiculous (what happened to flatten the curve?). It is just so incredibly frustrating to feel as though there is positive indicators to a return to a more 'normal' way of life in this part of the world while Dan Andrews perpetuates the fear factor (and I say this having lost a family member to covid last year in aged care in Melbourne). If the vaccine rollout isn't going to re-instate personal choice and freedoms, what is it going to take?
I'm keen to book tickets home for Christmas, but its incredibly expensive due to limited choice of flights (I can't imagine how difficult it must be for airlines atm) and not knowing if we have to plan for 2 weeks in quarantine

I'm very sorry for your loss and the inability to see your 23 year-old. There are many people who are in this boat overseas currently, who are frustrated (furious in my case) about what is going on.

I don't see anything changing once vaccines have been rolled out in completion, and I personally think the roll out in Australia will go into 2022, no matter what the government has said. They are already well behind schedule and 250k vaccines were stopped going there by the Italian authorities yesterday. The government's almost muted reaction shows they are in no hurry and the travel industry means absolutely nothing to them anyway.

The Australian government as well the state leaders (apart from Gladys Berejiklian in NSW) seem to almost enjoy the fact that they can switch off and on the freedoms of Australians at the drop of a hat:
- If there is one or two cases found these days, panic goes off like the world is coming to an end. This is ridiculous when people like Daniel Andrews sit there and say they have "world-leading" track and trace systems.
- Also, Dan Andrews has asked for Victoria's coronavirus state of emergency powers to be extended until December 16, and they have.
- Perth for some reason has a reduced cap for international visitors, and has had so for a while, and why? They have found 2 or 3 cases in the last 3 months?? Of course Victoria isn't accepting any visitors and probably won't for a while

Apart from the one lockdown last year, NSW has kept things as normal as can be for a long period of time, and has continued accepting more international visitors than the other states, so anyone saying lockdowns and never-ending restrictions is the way doesn't know what they are talking about - but that seems like the way forward for Australia for the next few years. The government has indicated that once vaccinations are done, they'll "wait and see" what happens before moving next. This can take weeks or months, but knowing the Australian government, will most likely take up most of 2022.

Unfortunately, most Australians living in Australia appear to want to keep the borders closed indefinitely. The federal government knows this too, and this just means they'll keep doing that.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Never mind Howard Springs, when is Melbourne going to take international arrivals again?

Apparently once hotel quarantine staff have been vaccinated. Which is going to start this week I think.

The exact times? Who knows. If they wait for the full dosing regime that would be one shot, three weeks until the next shot, and then another two weeks for maximum effectiveness... so potentially at least 5-6 weeks away?

 

[Kimpos]

I'm very sorry for your loss and the inability to see your 23 year-old. There are many people who are in this boat overseas currently, who are frustrated (furious in my case) about what is going on.

I don't see anything changing once vaccines have been rolled out in completion, and I personally think the roll out in Australia will go into 2022, no matter what the government has said. They are already well behind schedule and 250k vaccines were stopped going there by the Italian authorities yesterday. The government's almost muted reaction shows they are in no hurry and the travel industry means absolutely nothing to them anyway.

The Australian government as well the state leaders (apart from Gladys Berejiklian in NSW) seem to almost enjoy the fact that they can switch off and on the freedoms of Australians at the drop of a hat:
- If there is one or two cases found these days, panic goes off like the world is coming to an end. This is ridiculous when people like Daniel Andrews sit there and say they have "world-leading" track and trace systems.
- Also, Dan Andrews has asked for Victoria's coronavirus state of emergency powers to be extended until December 16, and they have.
- Perth for some reason has a reduced cap for international visitors, and has had so for a while, and why? They have found 2 or 3 cases in the last 3 months?? Of course Victoria isn't accepting any visitors and probably won't for a while

Apart from the one lockdown last year, NSW has kept things as normal as can be for a long period of time, and has continued accepting more international visitors than the other states, so anyone saying lockdowns and never-ending restrictions is the way doesn't know what they are talking about - but that seems like the way forward for Australia for the next few years. The government has indicated that once vaccinations are done, they'll "wait and see" what happens before moving next. This can take weeks or months, but knowing the Australian government, will most likely take up most of 2022.

Unfortunately, most Australians living in Australia appear to want to keep the borders closed indefinitely. The federal government knows this too, and this just means they'll keep doing that.

Totally agree, the fear factor has many Australians content to stay put and keep the virus out. Apart from my own self-interest I think it is going to be a shame for the country long term. I'll still live in hope that common sense prevails!

 

[drron]

The public being afraid is just what politicians have always wanted.
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
H L Mencken.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Totally agree, the fear factor has many Australians content to stay put and keep the virus out. Apart from my own self-interest I think it is going to be a shame for the country long term. I'll still live in hope that common sense prevails!

I'm not sure 'fear factor' is entirely fair! We are enjoying a pretty normal social life in Australia, save for international arrivals and departures. We also have everyone on the same tier of restrictions, without needing to shield the vulnerable with draconian measures.

Some nay-sayers seem to think Australians can't think for themselves. That's also unfair. I suspect the majority understand that without effective medical interventions, the potential outcome if vulnerable people get the virus is not good. I think the majority also understand that once we have effective interventions, the game changes.

 

[Pushka]

The public being afraid is just what politicians have always wanted.
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
H L Mencken.

I must read State of Fear again.

 

[hb13]

I'm not sure 'fear factor' is entirely fair! We are enjoying a pretty normal social life in Australia, save for international arrivals and departures. We also have everyone on the same tier of restrictions, without needing to shield the vulnerable with draconian measures.

Some nay-sayers seem to think Australians can't think for themselves. That's also unfair. I suspect the majority understand that without effective medical interventions, the potential outcome if vulnerable people get the virus is not good. I think the majority also understand that once we have effective interventions, the game changes.

Perfect example here of the fact that a lot Australians in the country (not all, but many) not really caring about any of the Australians outside of the country. The 'fear factor' is completely fair and being used to full effect.

And as usual your statement that the government only cares about the health of Australians and this is only for medical reasons is false and anyone here can do their research and see the actual facts.

And your "pretty normal social life" isn't so normal when:
- A handful when of new cases forces states to shut borders with immediate effect time and time and time again, causing huge headaches for people.
- My company's marketing manager has been "caught" three times in the past few months and had to spend two weeks in a hotel every time quarantining.
- Perth goes into lockdown for 5 days because of a single case due it being the "scary, deadly, horrific South African strain" - I would call that fear factor on steroi_s.
- Perth is still taking reduced numbers because they are "auditing their hotel quarantine program"
- Melbourne is still not taking any international arrivals from a few weeks ago - when they claim they have an amazing test and trace system.

How you can honestly sit up there and call some of us nay-sayers when the government somehow manages to accept 1200+ extra arrivals for an international sporting event (Australian Open) and bend the rules for these tennis players (allowing them 5 hours of outdoor activity a day) is a bit ludicrous, but hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I'm all for Australia trying to bring in celebrities and sports stars to boost the economy. But not at the expense of stranded Australians who are running out of visas, money and not able to even afford a ticket home. If the rules have been put in place for "health and medical reasons", no one can be exempted from them - that's only logical, however, they keep being bent depending on who you are.

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

It’ll be very hard to justify otherwise, especially if the brits are jetting off to
Malaga enmasse in July.

I’ve just booked family in the UK to come over for Xmas ($4k return in J on SQ as well... so there are bargains to be had!). It’s only March, look how much we’ve progressed in a few months... surely we’re getting close to being offered a road out.

if you dont mind my asking, where did you acquire this? cheapest I have seen for uk is 5,100

 

[prozac]

...
I'm all for Australia trying to bring in celebrities and sports stars to boost the economy. But not at the expense of stranded Australians who are running out of visas, money and not able to even afford a ticket home. If the rules have been put in place for "health and medical reasons", no one can be exempted from them - that's only logical, however, they keep being bent depending on who you are.

I am surprised to hear that many of the "returning passengers" are not in fact returning Australians but visiting foreigners.
I have a daughter stuck O/S because of flight availability and inability to pay the high cost of a ticket.

 

[drron]

New York may take some time opening up as they have announced schools will not reopen until September.

De Blasio: New York City offering full return to classrooms in September

During a radio interview, Mayor de Blasio said all-virtual schooling would remain available for families that don't want to send their kids in person.

www.newsday.com

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Perfect example here of the fact that a lot Australians in the country (not all, but many) not really caring about any of the Australians outside of the country. The 'fear factor' is completely fair and being used to full effect.

And as usual your statement that the government only cares about the health of Australians and this is only for medical reasons is false and anyone here can do their research and see the actual facts.

And your "pretty normal social life" isn't so normal when:
- A handful when of new cases forces states to shut borders with immediate effect time and time and time again, causing huge headaches for people.
- My company's marketing manager has been "caught" three times in the past few months and had to spend two weeks in a hotel every time quarantining.
- Perth goes into lockdown for 5 days because of a single case due it being the "scary, deadly, horrific South African strain" - I would call that fear factor on steroi_s.
- Perth is still taking reduced numbers because they are "auditing their hotel quarantine program"
- Melbourne is still not taking any international arrivals from a few weeks ago - when they claim they have an amazing test and trace system.

How you can honestly sit up there and call some of us nay-sayers when the government somehow manages to accept 1200+ extra arrivals for an international sporting event (Australian Open) and bend the rules for these tennis players (allowing them 5 hours of outdoor activity a day) is a bit ludicrous, but hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I'm all for Australia trying to bring in celebrities and sports stars to boost the economy. But not at the expense of stranded Australians who are running out of visas, money and not able to even afford a ticket home. If the rules have been put in place for "health and medical reasons", no one can be exempted from them - that's only logical, however, they keep being bent depending on who you are.

I didn't say there weren't failings in the system!

We have had plenty of time to look at options such as expanding Howard Springs. But that hasn't been done. We are where we are.

If we want to keep covid out of the community because of the impact on vulnerable people, what other options are we left with? We are stuck with the caps. And internal border controls. Contract tracing is mostly only good once the virus is out and had a chance to infect the community.

I don't think wanting to protect the vulnerable and give them some sort of reasonable life is a product of 'fear'. It could also be seen as being humane. Yes, we could lock down aged care and residential facilities, cut off indigenous communities, ban any sort of outings or contact with the vulnerable while the rest carry on 'life as normal'. Is that fair? I don't think so. Others may feel differently.

'Pretty normal social life', depends how you define that. We had a pretty open and free Christmas and holiday period in Victoria. We're pretty free from restrictions now. There are undoubtedly benefits to that, including mental health and wellbeing.

Some may look at the AO as being unreasonable. I see it, on balance, as ok, given it was outside the standard quarantine arrangements. And brought benefits. Same with 'celebrities' - they are paying outside the standard quarantine arrangements, not detracting from it. Should the option for home quarantine with the associated expense be available for all?

There are many moving parts to this. There are those struggling to come home the first time, but the rules allow non-residents 'free' movement as many times as they like. Some of those people are taking up space in the quarantine program at the expense of others.

I acknowledge the range of issues. The exception was to the notion that this is all based on some irrational 'fear' being peddled by a government intent on controlling its citizens. I don't it's quite that bad!