Predictions of when international flights may resume/bans lifted

[Flashback]

But you need to be based here to do that. How about High Commissioner to the UK?

If that means entry to AU without HQ then sure !

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

The threats of taking away people benefits or excluding them from certain actions are not the way a free society should work.

for my 2c:

"The country is opening up 30th of November, restrictions gone, free to come and go, vaccines will be available before that date. Make up your own mind as a free citizen."

(for the record i will happily get the vaccine) but i will not put a cross next to the box that says "tell people living on the piss poor amount of benefit they get a week they have to take something they have reservations about or they can starve in the street" this is a first world country for gods sake. We are meant to be living in a free society where you can make your own decisions and come and go as you please.

OFFER people the vaccines, and by that i mean OFFER it to them, dont put a financial gun to their head.

 

[SydneySwan]

If that means entry to AU without HQ then sure !

Yes pollies, film stars, etc. are exempt. Their work is just too important to be constrained by HQ.

 

[levelnine]

I wonder if it would pass the Charter in Victoria?

Doesn't need to. The Charter doesn't limit Victorian Parliament's power to legislate. Indeed, Parliament is explicitly empowered to override rights: see section 31.

 

[hb13]

But don’t we appoint governments to make the laws? People can do things about it at the ballot box and in the courts if there is a genuinely disproportionate response (although disproportionate seems quite difficult to prove).

Interestingly in Victoria the government copped a lot of flack for continuing to extend the State of Emergency - but each time they had to negotiate with the upper house so it was a very public process. In most other states they just quietly extend the SOE , except NSW who have other laws that codify powers to deal with the pandemic without having to resort to SOE.

But I find it fascinating that the one government that has faced the most criticism in the media is the one that has to follow a vaguely democratic process rather than just saying it is so.

Proving it is the issue. How do you prove it is right or disproportionate? And the argument about us appointing governments to make laws is a massive over-simplification. in this particular scenario.

For example, leaving Australians stranded, making it criminal for some Australians to come home - how legal is that?

Another example, it appears, based on all the scientific and epidemiological evidence, vaccines are very effective. Yet, the government has not made any exceptions for fully vaccinated travelers. There is talk of exemptions - but all that talk and no action leaves thousands of businesses in limbo.

And all of this for the "safety and health of Australians". The safety and health of Australians overseas is just as important as those back home.

 

[levelnine]

OFFER people the vaccines, and by that i mean OFFER it to them, dont put a financial gun to their head.

Disagree. If people who are healthy enough to get the vaccine decide not to get it, the government should all but compel them to get the vaccine (ie no jab, no play legislation).

The reason is that, if these people don't get the vaccine, we won't achieve herd immunity, which endangers the lives of people who cannot get the vaccine for health reasons.

Anti-vaxxers are a threat to society and should be treated as such.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The idea that it can only be done by government if it is legal is not true because they would find a way to make it "legal" and make it up if they have to. They have shown they are pretty much above the law and no one can do a thing about it.

Accept it may appear that way, but it's not how it operates in reality. There are multiple checks and balances to prevent what you describe.

Doesn't need to. The Charter doesn't limit Victorian Parliament's power to legislate. Indeed, Parliament is explicitly empowered to override rights: see section 31.

Agree. But it is supposedly subject to an 'exceptional circumstances' test (albeit undefined). To remove rights from healthy people, and to restrict trade by preventing healthy people to access services might not pass the 'exceptional' test. Although the Charter may be a bit of a moot point given no party has a majority in the Legislative Council.

 

[oznflfan]

Disagree. If people who are healthy enough to get the vaccine decide not to get it, the government should all but compel them to get the vaccine (ie no jab, no play legislation).

The reason is that, if these people don't get the vaccine, we won't achieve herd immunity, which endangers the lives of people who cannot get the vaccine for health reasons.

Anti-vaxxers are a threat to society and should be treated as such.

Simple solution, after we open up, non vaccinated must wear face masks 100% outside the home until WHO declares the pandemic over. Police to spot check and fine non compliers. This is also on the governments agenda of 'keeping people safe, even if they choose to endanger their own lives'.

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

Disagree. If people who are healthy enough to get the vaccine decide not to get it, the government should all but compel them to get the vaccine (ie no jab, no play legislation).

The reason is that, if these people don't get the vaccine, we won't achieve herd immunity, which endangers the lives of people who cannot get the vaccine for health reasons.

Anti-vaxxers are a threat to society and should be treated as such.

Hell just grab them off the street pin them down and inject them with everything you deem mandatory then? If there is not going to be a choice.

doesnt sound like a terrifying society at all ....

 

[jase05]

Secondly, businesses would be up in arms if all of a sudden you denied them a large chunk of revenue from healthy, but unvaccinated people.

But on the flip side businesses are capped at 75% capacity which is really hurting them. If businesses were allowed to operate at 100% as long as all patrons were vaccinated then that is financially beneficial to them

 

[Miss bick]

Doesn't need to. The Charter doesn't limit Victorian Parliament's power to legislate. Indeed, Parliament is explicitly empowered to override rights: see section 31.

Hell just grab them off the street pin them down and inject them with everything you deem mandatory then? If there is not going to be a choice.

doesnt sound like a terrifying society at all ....

Oh for goodness sake, if you want to go around uncaring and carry a virus that kills or weakens people , then do it, just don't be surprised when we who don't, disagree with your bleeding heart politics. I 'm not communist or capitalist or socialist etc., just middle of the road Aussie.

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

Oh for goodness sake, if you want to go around uncaring and carry a virus that kills or weakens people , then do it, just don't be surprised when we who don't, disagree with your bleeding heart politics. I 'm not communist or capitalist or socialist etc., just middle of the road Aussie.

like i have said many times on here, i plan on getting the vaccine when it is available to me, I just do not think it should be forced on people to the point of them losing things like benefits , losing freedoms.

you cant take someones PAYG tax and not allow them to receive a benefit because they didnt take the 18 month old vaccination

 

[Miss bick]

like i have said many times on here, i plan on getting the vaccine when it is available to me, I just do not think it should be forced on people to the point of them losing things like benefits , losing freedoms.

you cant take someones PAYG tax and not allow them to receive a benefit because they didnt take the 18 month old vaccination

Totally agree with you...as long as they are not in a queue at Woolies or any other public establishment near me or my loved ones when they have a cough or sneeze

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

Totally agree with you...as long as they are not in a queue at Woolies or any other public establishment near me or my loved ones when they have a cough or sneeze

if you and your loved ones are vaccinated what do you care?

 

[Miss bick]

if you and your loved ones are vaccinated what do you care?

So harsh! We have been advised vaccinations are not 100% effective, would I want a loved one to be at risk at all? Be compassionate and real. Besides...we so want to travel without inflicting any ill on others. People forget even the normal flu kills.

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

So harsh! We have been advised vaccinations are not 100% effective, would I want a loved one to be at risk at all? Be compassionate and real. Besides...we so want to travel without inflicting any ill on others. People forget even the normal flu kills.

I am being real, being real means having an understanding that life is not risk free. If people WANT to take the vaccine, give it to them.

But how does your analogy play out?

vaccines arent 100% ... so we need to keep the unvaccinated away ....

so ....

you are saying under 18's cant go next to your loved ones in the woolies queue?
under 18's cant go on planes?
under 18's cant go on public transport?
pregnant women cant go on planes because they cant get vaccinated?
immunocompromised people cant go on planes because they cant get vaccinated?

or do those get a pass and if they kill someone it doesnt matter because you know they had a good reason ?

it boils down to people dont think having a choice is a good enough reason, and thats a sad state of affairs.

again before someone jumps all over me ... my wife has basically no immune system and is fully vaccinated, i will be getting vaccinated i'm all for all the GOOD incentives in the world to encourage people to get vaccinated, but you cant say DO IT OR GET PUNISHED! this is not north korea for gods sake

 

[PerthPaul]

Disagree. If people who are healthy enough to get the vaccine decide not to get it, the government should all but compel them to get the vaccine (ie no jab, no play legislation).

The reason is that, if these people don't get the vaccine, we won't achieve herd immunity, which endangers the lives of people who cannot get the vaccine for health reasons.

Anti-vaxxers are a threat to society and should be treated as such.

My problem is that as much as I want to be vaccinated, I have both a GP and Haematologist insisting that I wait and see. Why, because I have a clotting disorder.
I have had a large pulmonary embolism, two amputations on the same leg, the first one after they found 11 clots leading to a below the knee and then one month into my rehab I had the second one, above the knee also clot related. All whilst under anticoagulation medication.
Four weeks ago I was admitted yet again to hospital again with clots, one in my toe, which was saved in the nick of time. The more dangerous thing was the small bunch of clots that was stopped by a narrowing of the artery, leading to stent to trap the clots against the wall and to open up the artery until they could be dissolved. Again all whilst under medically supervised anticoagulent medication.
So I meet all the criteria to get the Pfizer vax but I’m 58.
So your suggestion is to force me to be vaccinated because the government seems to think it’s safe. And because the government deems its safe for me your suggestion of no jab no pay in simply unconscionable. You know if you are under 50 and cannot take the Pfizer vax they offered them AstraZeneca. But no apparently I’m expendable. So where is my choice ? Or maybe you don’t care and I’m simply a threat to you.
p.s. I had my flu shot in May, so antivaxxer I am not.

 

[Miss bick]

I am being real, being real means having an understanding that life is not risk free. If people WANT to take the vaccine, give it to them.

But how does your analogy play out?

vaccines arent 100% ... so we need to keep the unvaccinated away ....

so ....

you are saying under 18's cant go next to your loved ones in the woolies queue?
under 18's cant go on planes?
under 18's cant go on public transport?
pregnant women cant go on planes because they cant get vaccinated?
immunocompromised people cant go on planes because they cant get vaccinated?

or do those get a pass and if they kill someone it doesnt matter because you know they had a good reason ?

it boils down to people dont think having a choice is a good enough reason, and thats a sad state of affairs.

again before someone jumps all over me ... my wife has basically no immune system and is fully vaccinated, i will be getting vaccinated i'm all for all the GOOD incentives in the world to encourage people to get vaccinated, but you cant say DO IT OR GET PUNISHED! this is not north korea for gods sake

No, you said if you are vaccinated, what do you care, ...I was merely responding to that specific statement. Methinks you do protest too much...chill..
There will always be exceptions to the rule as you mentioned, but hopefully they will be catered to eventually. I do trust our country. And re under 18's...well coming from a large family I have always known that children are petrie dishes of exotic bugs, and yukky bugs, my family not excepted, and have tried to avoid them in later years we don't choose family holiday options....

 

[Miss bick]

My problem is that as much as I want to be vaccinated, I have both a GP and Haematologist insisting that I wait and see. Why, because I have a clotting disorder.
I have had a large pulmonary embolism, two amputations on the same leg, the first one after they found 11 clots leading to a below the knee and then one month into my rehab I had the second one, above the knee also clot related. All whilst under anticoagulation medication.
Four weeks ago I was admitted yet again to hospital again with clots, one in my toe, which was saved in the nick of time. The more dangerous thing was the small bunch of clots that was stopped by a narrowing of the artery, leading to stent to trap the clots against the wall and to open up the artery until they could be dissolved. Again all whilst under medically supervised anticoagulent medication.
So I meet all the criteria to get the Pfizer vax but I’m 58.
So your suggestion is to force me to be vaccinated because the government seems to think it’s safe. And because the government deems its safe for me your suggestion of no jab no pay in simply unconscionable. You know if you are under 50 and cannot take the Pfizer vax they offered them AstraZeneca. But no apparently I’m expendable. So where is my choice ? Or maybe you don’t care and I’m simply a threat to you.
p.s. I had my flu shot in May, so antivaxxer I am not.

Because you have this issue, and there is a question of safety, I don't think anyone would would say you should be forced to a vaccination product that is not safe for your circumstance, I don't know why you have any concerns? Most comments are general and not for specific and obvious exclusions like yours. Hopefully, after some news stories recently we will be manufacturing or getting the Moderna vaccine in near future?

 

[hb13]

I've gotten my first jab and will stress the importance of vaccine to all my friends and family. But I don't agree with forcing people to take the jab - that tactic doesn't work.

Education is very important as to why you need to get the jab, and that needs to be done in droves by all leaders, politicians and celebrities. That is what is being done here in the UK.

If I'm in a room of people that are all vaccinated, I would feel a lot more comfortable. In general, if I'm on a plane/train etc, I would feel much better if everyone was vaccinated, and I can see the need for organisations to say, well, if you want to enter this place or get on this plane you need to be vaccinated - but forcing people to do it is not the right way IMHO.

If you educate enough, you will have enough people take it. And if 80% of the population has it, that should severely bring down the risk for everyone. If you educate well enough, you will have those people then turn around and also convince their family and friends as well.

This vaccine has been around for literally 12 months - there will be many who are scared of what may happen if they take it. Shaming people because they are hesitant, in my opinion is ill-advised and will achieve nothing.