Predictions of when international flights may resume/bans lifted

[MEL_Traveller]

I'm sorry since when has a relaxing holiday overseas been an entitlement? A privilege not an entitlement. Never has been and never will be. Many do not have the economic means to do so. And Australian holidays need not be expensive, but we've argued this before, so I'm not going to rehash this again.

This is an AFF echo chamber which is completely removed from the reality of 90% of Australians, many whom of which are happy to keep borders closed - at least for the privilege of going on holidays.

That's the whole thing isn't it? Travelling overseas shouldn't be seen as a privilege. If someone wants to go we're supposed to be living in a free country. There may be plenty of people who can't afford Bali, but there are plenty who can. And those include average Aussies on at least 2 or 3 Jetstar 787s and several more A320s a day to Bali alone.

 

[dajop]

That's the whole thing isn't it? Travelling overseas shouldn't be seen as a privilege. If someone wants to go we're supposed to be living in a free country. There may be plenty of people who can't afford Bali, but there are plenty who can. And those include average Aussies on at least 2 or 3 Jetstar 787s and several more A320s a day to Bali alone.

But it is a privilege. And many many Australians outside our echo chamber see it this way too. Not a fundamental right.

If you're trying to understand why the government - and I might add a government of the political persuasion that tends to favour both privilege and freedom - is moving very slowly on opening borders, it might well be worthwhile considering what either the polls or the John Howard shopping mall tests are saying about the views of the (supposed) "average Aussie" (not that I've ever met an "average Aussie", all are exceptional in some way good or bad ). Otherwise there would be more movement and more signals from the government about "opening up".

5 Jetstar 787's, 2 Garuda A330's and probably 10 A320's a day ... @ 85% load factor is only 1.2m people. Take out a big chunk that travel more than once a year, you might get back to 0.8m unique individuals a year travelling to Bali. 3% of the population. What about the other 97%?

 

[justinbrett]

But it is a privilege. And many many Australians outside our echo chamber see it this way too. Not a fundamental right.

If you're trying to understand why the government - and I might add a government of the political persuasion that tends to favour both privilege and freedom - is moving very slowly on opening borders, it might well be worthwhile considering what either the polls or the John Howard shopping mall tests are saying about the views of the (supposed) "average Aussie" (not that I've ever met an "average Aussie", all are exceptional in some way good or bad ). Otherwise there would be more movement and more signals from the government about "opening up".

5 Jetstar 787's, 2 Garuda A330's and probably 10 A320's a day ... @ 85% load factor is only 1.2m people. Take out a big chunk that travel more than once a year, you might get back to 0.8m unique individuals a year travelling to Bali. 3% of the population. What about the other 97%?

It’s literally in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights that it is a right.

You’re trying to conflate an economic argument (ability to afford a holiday) with a political one (being allowed to leave and return to your own country)

I care not what the average Aussie thinks, nor what a popularist prime minister thinks - there are basic freedoms that were taken under the emergency premise of covid and it’s time for them to be returned.

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

But it is a privilege. And many many Australians outside our echo chamber see it this way too. Not a fundamental right.

If you're trying to understand why the government - and I might add a government of the political persuasion that tends to favour both privilege and freedom - is moving very slowly on opening borders, it might well be worthwhile considering what either the polls or the John Howard shopping mall tests are saying about the views of the (supposed) "average Aussie" (not that I've ever met an "average Aussie", all are exceptional in some way good or bad ). Otherwise there would be more movement and more signals from the government about "opening up".

5 Jetstar 787's, 2 Garuda A330's and probably 10 A320's a day ... @ 85% load factor is only 1.2m people. Take out a big chunk that travel more than once a year, you might get back to 0.8m unique individuals a year travelling to Bali. 3% of the population. What about the other 97%?

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

It’s literally in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights that it is a right.

You’re trying to conflate an economic argument (ability to afford a holiday) with a political one (being allowed to leave and return to your own country)

I care not what the average Aussie thinks, nor what a popularist prime minister thinks - there are basic freedoms that were taken under the emergency premise of covid and it’s time for them to be returned.

Or if you prefer you can have the quote from inside my passport

"Her Britannic Majesty's Secretary of State requests and requires in the Name of Her Majesty all those whom it may concern to allow the bearer to pass freely without let or hindrance, and to afford the bearer such assistance and protection as may be necessary"

- Pass Freely Without Let or Hindrance
- Require Travel Exemption to pass border

 

[Matt_01]

@Pom-DownUnder is your quote from a British passport or an older AU one. My current AU passport has a similar statement but starts with "The Governor-General of the Commonwealth of Australia .........to pass freely......" etc. Have you been reminiscing or re watching 'Faulty Towers'

 

[Matt_01]

Most of the euro holiday destinations just require negative PCR tests prior to travel for unvaccinated people which is an encouraging sign - am hoping that will also be mostly replicated elsewhere. But probably not in australia!

I am travelling from the DRPSA to the CPWA tomorrow and I will be taking my passport, ICV etc to travel from one state to another within the same country

 

[dajop]

I care not what the average Aussie thinks, nor what a popularist prime minister thinks - there are basic freedoms that were taken under the emergency premise of covid and it’s time for them to be returned.

Well with a federal election coming up it doesn't really matter what you or I think (but I do think there should be less restrictions), but it does matter what majority of Australians (particularly those in marginal electorates) think.

I don’t think too many of those think that overseas holidays are a right - I could be wrong - and won’t care or be persuaded by people holidaying in Europe, But they may be more inclined to see it as a right to visit relatives/ loved ones outside the bubble (and even then a sizeable minority probably thinks “tough luck” judging by some of the offensive comments I’ve read on various online stories.)

I suspect when framing the covenant, people popping off to Bali for a long weekend wasn’t what they had in mind. Also there can be exclusions on these freedoms, for example to protect public health, so I don’t think it’s an absolute black and white freedom. And whilst there are I’m sure various mechanisms to challenge the public health orders, so far all seem to have failed, and it’s never going to be tried in the court of AFF

 

[oz_mark]

I am travelling from the DRPSA to the CPWA tomorrow and I will be taking my passport, ICV etc to travel from one state to another within the same country

In DPRWA, you need to show your papers, but the mines are open.

 

[justinbrett]

Well with a federal election coming up it doesn't really matter what you or I think (but I do think there should be less restrictions), but it does matter what majority of Australians (particularly those in marginal electorates) think.

I don’t think too many of those think that overseas holidays are a right - I could be wrong - and won’t care or be persuaded by people holidaying in Europe, But they may be more inclined to see it as a right to visit relatives/ loved ones outside the bubble (and even then a sizeable minority probably thinks “tough luck” judging by some of the offensive comments I’ve read on various online stories.)

I suspect when framing the covenant, people popping off to Bali for a long weekend wasn’t what they had in mind. Also there can be exclusions on these freedoms, for example to protect public health, so I don’t think it’s an absolute black and white freedom. And whilst there are I’m sure various mechanisms to challenge the public health orders, so far all seem to have failed, and it’s never going to be tried in the court of AFF

yeah well, as I said, I’m not interested in the court of public opinion. We elect governments to make the right choices, not just the popular ones.

 

[dajop]

We elect governments to make the right choices, not just the popular ones.

What a 20th century viewpoint!

I believe that’s why we elect governments too, they have much fuller set of information on which to make better informed decisions than “the public” ever will. But alas, the evidence seems to suggest that the popular choices are the ones that are being made at the moment and in recent times .... nevertheless the government could at some point very quickly do a u-turn on the issue, if the Murdoch Press decide it’s time for the borders to open up.

 

[Pushka]

We elect governments to make the right choices, not just the popular ones.

Yes, but what is 'right'? A decision that is right for them may well be aimed improving their chances of being elected.

 

[Lynda2475]

Looking at this satiation in Qld, where fully vaccinated parents (with Pfizer so a recognized vaccine) arent allowed to see their own baby who was born durign their HQ despite multiple negative tests - doesn't bode well for a sensible approach to vaccinated travelers.

Quarantining couple separated from newborn

A Melbourne couple are pleading with Queensland health authorities to “pull their head out of the sand” and let them see their newborn baby, who was born 10 weeks premature in a tricky birth while the family was in quarantine.

www.news.com.au

 

[Must...Fly!]

Looking at this satiation in Qld, where fully vaccinated parents (with Pfizer so a recognized vaccine) arent allowed to see their own baby who was born durign their HQ despite multiple negative tests - doesn't bode well for a sensible approach to vaccinated travelers.

Quarantining couple separated from newborn

A Melbourne couple are pleading with Queensland health authorities to “pull their head out of the sand” and let them see their newborn baby, who was born 10 weeks premature in a tricky birth while the family was in quarantine.

www.news.com.au

That's a pretty tough one to be honest. The last place you would want COVID is a neonatal intensive care unit.

 

[mviy]

What a 20th century viewpoint!

I believe that’s why we elect governments too, they have much fuller set of information on which to make better informed decisions than “the public” ever will. But alas, the evidence seems to suggest that the popular choices are the ones that are being made at the moment and in recent times

As a great politician once said. Democracy is the worst form of government except all the rest. The popular will of the people isn't always right and if listened to sometime can cause great harm for the minority.

nevertheless the government could at some point very quickly do a u-turn on the issue, if the Murdoch Press decide it’s time for the borders to open up.

I don't think that's an accurate assessment of the situation at all. A number of people working for News Corp have been advocating for steps to be taken to gradually reopen the borders (improve vaccine rollout, build more purpose built quarantine facilities etc.) for a long time now including Andrew Bolt who's in the prime time 7pm spot on Sky News and a Herald Sun columnist. Andrew Bolt would like to see family overseas. A number of presenters on Sky News were appalled by the ban on Australians returning from India as well. Yet the borders are still firmly shut with restrictions on leaving Australia as tight as ever other than to New Zealand.

 

[jb747]

I suspect that it was easy to close borders. That's just the stroke of a pen. Re-opening them takes planning, thought, willpower, knowledge, and lots of other words that I'm not likely to associate with governments.

 

[justinbrett]

Yes, but what is 'right'? A decision that is right for them may well be aimed improving their chances of being elected.

Well, then that wouldn’t be the right decision then.

I said we elect them to do it, doesn’t mean they actually do.

 

[dajop]

I don't think that's an accurate assessment of the situation at all. A number of people working for News Corp have been advocating for steps to be taken to gradually reopen the borders (improve vaccine rollout, build more purpose built quarantine facilities etc.) for a long time now including Andrew Bolt who's in the prime time 7pm spot on Sky News and a Herald Sun columnist. Andrew Bolt would like to see family overseas. A number of presenters on Sky News were appalled by the ban on Australians returning from India as well. Yet the borders are still firmly shut with restrictions on leaving Australia as tight as ever other than to New Zealand.

It's more the editorial position of the Australian, the Herald/Sun and Daily Telegraph that will dictate the position, not so much individual commentators. If it was splashed across the front pages it would change things fairly quickly I imagine. But I don;t think that will happen. (On the India thing, the rhetoric changed very quickly after a number of SkyNews commentators, and not just the latte-sippers, took up the cudgels, and announcements were made about repatriation flights very quickly after that).

 

[GlennT]

Simply a ploy to encourage more vaccinations. Hold out a carrot and a few bunnies will bite.

 

[ayushamity]

Vietnam considers shortening quarantine period for vaccinated entrants - VnExpress International

People entering Vietnam who have been vaccinated against Covid-19 and test negative may see their quarantine period reduced from 21 days to one week.

e.vnexpress.net

This is what we need. Some thinking on the way out of a pandemic.

Vietnam which has an ACTIVE outbreak of Covid even now are seeing sense to reduce quarantine for vaccinated people and a way out 0of the pandemic when they reach herd immunity later this year.

On the other hand, Australia is hiding under the doona with a plan to sleep until the 12th of never,

At this rate, I would be able to go see my fiance later this year in Vietnam before she can come here in maybe 2028.........