Predictions of when international flights may resume/bans lifted

[bcworld]

ATAGI is presumably following approvals happening overseas and the TGA will consider approvals for younger kids when/if it’s deemed necessary. We are still a long, long way away from being able to vaccinate younger teenagers.

Israel has certainly made some observations about the second Pfizer dose and Myocarditis. Apparently this is most prevalent in 16-19 y/o males.

Israel reports link between Pfizer 2nd shot and heart problem in males under 30

Myocarditis side effect is extremely rare and in most cases mild; experts say finding unlikely to affect decision on vaccinating 12- to 15-year-olds

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Pushka]

Talking about being fixated, I'm sick to death of this fixation on "image of people holidaying" . Someone brings it up every 20 or so posts.

Australians (except for Victorians) are already holidaying as someone sitting overseas I've seen plenty of "pictures ... of people holidaying" (within Australia). Except for long suffering Victorians - there has been the opportunity to holiday for the last 12 months, and many people I know have taken holidays. It's not like being stuck in a European country, many of which are the size of Victoria, or smaller. I've know a couple who normally would take at least 2 overseas trips a year, who've been on holidays in every state and territory in Australia in the last 12 months. Beaches, mountains, cafes, rainforests etc. You name it. I don't think most people in Australia would care much for them bleating that they haven't been able to go overseas for a holiday (poor diddums, I wouldn't). Spoilt and indulgent comes to mind. (btw they don't bleat and moan, so not saying they are spoilt and indulgent)

However, I do think it is quite sad, in fact heartless, that they can't travel to Europe to see one of their families. One of them hasn't seen his mother in person now for nearly 2 years. I hope they will be able to go soon, as she is not getting any younger. IMHO, this is the true sadness. Not holidaying.

I will be having to zoom our sons wedding in the UK this July unless a miracle happens. It won't. I hate zoom and virtual anything these days. It isn't real. DIL is struggling not being able to see her UK parents, for 18 months now.

 

[mviy]

Zoom is not the same but it is still better than nothing. You can’t help feeling that you’re not there but you can still experience a small part of the day live.

You can get a few friends around (if not in lockdown, also do something on Zoom if in lockdown) and have a celebratory dinner beforehand, perhaps even arrange for the groom and best man to Zoom in briefly to that party.

It’s not the same but try to make the best of it.

I would get vaccinated (if not already) and put in an exemption request to travel even though there’s probably a 0.00001% chance of approval.

 

[roogirl]

Talking about being fixated, I'm sick to death of this fixation on "image of people holidaying" . Someone brings it up every 20 or so posts.

Australians (except for Victorians) are already holidaying as someone sitting overseas I've seen plenty of "pictures ... of people holidaying" (within Australia). Except for long suffering Victorians - there has been the opportunity to holiday for the last 12 months, and many people I know have taken holidays. It's not like being stuck in a European country, many of which are the size of Victoria, or smaller. I've know a couple who normally would take at least 2 overseas trips a year, who've been on holidays in every state and territory in Australia in the last 12 months. Beaches, mountains, cafes, rainforests etc. You name it. I don't think most people in Australia would care much for them bleating that they haven't been able to go overseas for a holiday (poor diddums, I wouldn't). Spoilt and indulgent comes to mind. (btw they don't bleat and moan, so not saying they are spoilt and indulgent)

However, I do think it is quite sad, in fact heartless, that they can't travel to Europe to see one of their families. One of them hasn't seen his mother in person now for nearly 2 years. I hope they will be able to go soon, as she is not getting any younger. IMHO, this is the true sadness. Not holidaying.

I don’t understand why the travel industry isn’t spending money on putting these heartbreaking stories into every newspaper/broadcast news segments as often as they can. Particularly the stories of people being refused permission when relatives are sick, and then being granted it when they’ve actually died. What is the actual point of that? It’s indefensible and right now I don’t think people believe it’s really happening.

 

[Pushka]

I don’t understand why the travel industry isn’t spending money on putting these heartbreaking stories into every newspaper/broadcast news segments as often as they can. Particularly the stories of people being refused permission when relatives are sick, and then being granted it when they’ve actually died. What is the actual point of that? It’s indefensible and right now I don’t think people believe it’s really happening.

Good point and idea. It's the same as people don't understand why it's taken 12 months for many to return to Australia.

 

[Matt_01]

ATAGI is presumably following approvals happening overseas and the TGA will consider approvals for younger kids when/if it’s deemed necessary. We are still a long, long way away from being able to vaccinate younger teenagers.

I would hope travel opens up again before kids are vaccinated.

I assume you do not have children, what is the difference between you wanting to get back to the UK to see family and others who also would also like to see family in the UK and have younger teenagers who will have to be in tow, they are still part of the family.

 

[mviy]

I don’t understand why the travel industry isn’t spending money

They are struggling to pay the bill as it is and publicly listed companies have to be accountable to shareholders. The media could easily spin it as the airline spending $10 million on ads that could have kept countless staff employed…

It’s really something the media and perhaps the government should be doing for the travel industry.

 

[Pom-DownUnder]

I was supposed to leave next week for the uk, my mums 70th and my dads 75th, added to that i found out this week (without any contact from qantas, no email / text etc) that my brisbane to singapore leg has disappeared for the rebooked trip in december, thanks for that Alan.

 

[mviy]

I assume you do not have children, what is the difference between you wanting to get back to the UK to see family and others who also would also like to see family in the UK and have younger teenagers who will have to be in tow, they are still part of the family.

No, I don’t have any children, but I do have family who are unwilling to come to Australia and do 14 days of quarantine with a baby. Home quarantine maybe, but definitely not hotel quarantine.

We have to start with vaccinating the most at risk. All studies indicate kids are the least at risk generally, so should we wait for them to be vaccinated when they are not at serious risk of death if the virus gets into the community despite all mitigation measures?

If we wait for all adults and kids that want the vaccine to get it before starting to open up we’ll be waiting too long. It’s better that some can travel than none at all.

It’s not at all clear what exceptions will be made for unvaccinated travel e.g. will those who can’t get vaccinated for medical reasons or due to age be able to travel? Will that be on the same or separate flights? If the vaccinated don’t need to do hotel quarantine that will hopefully free up places for more who can’t be vaccinated to be allowed to travel whilst still needing to quarantine.

 

[roogirl]

I was supposed to leave next week for the uk, my mums 70th and my dads 75th, added to that i found out this week (without any contact from qantas, no email / text etc) that my brisbane to singapore leg has disappeared for the rebooked trip in december, thanks for that Alan.

I just missed my dads 80th in melbourne so totally understand how you feel. It’s really hard. In 2019 I did a 4 day trip from london to sydney solo for my mums 70th - was uming and ahing about whether to go (couldn’t bring my young kids with me for such a short trip but didn’t have the leave to go for longer). I thank god every day I did - now the idea of being in australia for 3 days and then flying back seems like a vague dream…..

 

[roogirl]

No, I don’t have any children, but I do have family who are unwilling to come to Australia and do 14 days of quarantine with a baby. Home quarantine maybe, but definitely not hotel quarantine.

We have to start with vaccinating the most at risk. All studies indicate kids are the least at risk generally, so should we wait for them to be vaccinated when they are not at serious risk of death if the virus gets into the community despite all mitigation measures?

If we wait for all adults and kids that want the vaccine to get it before starting to open up we’ll be waiting too long. It’s better that some can travel than none at all.

It’s not at all clear what exceptions will be made for unvaccinated travel e.g. will those who can’t get vaccinated for medical reasons or due to age be able to travel? Will that be on the same or separate flights? If the vaccinated don’t need to do hotel quarantine that will hopefully free up places for more who can’t be vaccinated to be allowed to travel whilst still needing to quarantine.

The thing is, kids being vaccinated is only an issue if you’re going for zero covid. The data all show that pre teen children don’t contract covid badly and have much lower viral load (ie don’t spread it as much). If all your elderly and vulnerable are vaxxed having in vaxxed children is neither here nor there. I don’t think we will see any vaccination for children for awhile for this reason - and it will only cause issues in countries like aus and nz where everyone loses their mind over 4 cases. (How many people in hospital due to this latest outbreak? Is it just that one guy on a ventilator?)

 

[mviy]

Indeed. Citizens overseas who tend to come home for really short trips are effectively blocked by 14 days quarantine which is significantly longer than their usual trip. Taking that much leave before you can even start the whole point of the trip is a major hurdle to travel. I can take that leave but can’t leave Australia, but family overseas would find taking that much leave is too much, but could come here if they were willing to do so and could get on flights.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Beaches, mountains, cafes, rainforests etc. You name it. I don't think most people in Australia would care much for them bleating that they haven't been able to go overseas for a holiday (poor diddums, I wouldn't). Spoilt and indulgent comes to mind. (btw they don't bleat and moan, so not saying they are spoilt and indulgent)

But sky high pricing! That's my issue with Aussie holidays.

People are entitled to have a relaxing holiday where they don't have to worry about the cost of every meal, every drink, every activity, or the cost of child care. Or mum can have a massage that doesn't cost AUD180 for an hour And mum can have a week off cooking two or three meals a day.

I don't blame anyone wanting to go to Bali or Fiji over Queensland.

I hope any trials on modified quarantine give preference to our frontline workers wanting a break, should they want it.

 

[Matt_01]

@roogirl and @mviy you both make valid points and the issue with posts is how they are interpreted. Roogirl your comment "The thing is, kids being vaccinated is only an issue if you’re going for zero covid." is this at the family or country level? This brings me to mviy's comments, I have enough leave to travel and go into quarantine in both directions, my wife does not and we would not pull our daughter out of school for the sake of quarantine. I have have had the first jab, my wife will start in a week or so (she has to wait due to the flu jab) however as a family unit of 3 there is very little information published (that I can find) that deals with travel and associated quarantine requirements when travelling as x2 vaccinated adults and a non vaccinated minor. I have to consider if we will be forced to quarantine in the destination (UK) and arrival back in AU. What may have been a 1-2 week trip could turn into 6 weeks in a blink of an eyelid.

 

[JB expat]

Waiting for elimination in US/UK is my interpretation of what I read in that article, which may not be correct. We'll have to wait and see what actually transpires. Hopefully the media can press them to reveal what thresholds they are looking for.

The UK has now had a day with no deaths from COVID-19 which is significant progress.

There has been zero transparency about any thresholds. The claim is that decisions are made based on data and science and yet no one is willing to be transparent about what the triggers are for loosening lockdown (here in Melb) or relaxing border restrictions. Does not inspire confidence.

Post automatically merged: Jun 2, 2021

I think you guys are too fixated on the view that what politicians say will be what they do. Time has shown over and over again this is very rarely the case.

We aren’t there yet but when these countries do get into a position to open up, we will start getting pictures of people in the news and papers from these other countries holidaying. I think public attitudes would change much faster than a year away if/when this is the case.

I honestly think that there are many, many Australians that could not care less about ever leaving the country.

 

[JB expat]

Am I correct to assume this is the SG PM, also which vaccine is approved for use 12 and over. I have attempted to stay abreast of child vaccine approval ages and in AU I think it is only for 16 and older. I am interested as when travel does open up in AU we will be keen to get MissM vaccinated.

Yes, I am wondering what the relaxed rules will mean for overseas travel as a family given my children are under age by any country's current rules re: vaccination.

 

[roogirl]

@Matt_01 My statement was meant at the country level. Clearly individuals will continue to need to make their own risk assessments - for example I would probably voluntarily self quarantine our family for a few days & do a PCR on day 4/5 before seeing my family if the U.K. continues to have levels of circulating covid (as I suspect they will). I don’t want to pass on covid to my friends & family and it would be an easy enough thing to do in the context of a christmas trip - rent an Airbnb with a pool and have a few days to sleep off the jetlag.

totally agree re the lack of information on travelling with minors. Most of the euro holiday destinations just require negative PCR tests prior to travel for unvaccinated people which is an encouraging sign - am hoping that will also be mostly replicated elsewhere. But probably not in australia! We’re like you - cannot take 6 weeks to do an Aus trip of which 4 weeks is spent in quarantine. And I suspect nor will anyone else. So depressing….

 

[JB expat]

I've joked to my husband that half the primary school that my kids go to will be gone for at least 1-2 months when borders well & truly open. We live in an area that has lots of people with parents in the UK, USA, Canada and elsewhere in Europe. In spite of all the school missed, most of us are going to go for 4-6 weeks as soon as it is allowed and seems low risk (in terms of returning home to Aus being jeopardized).

 

[dajop]

People are entitled to have a relaxing holiday where they don't have to worry about the cost of every meal, every drink, every activity, or the cost of child care. Or mum can have a massage that doesn't cost AUD180 for an hour And mum can have a week off cooking two or three meals a day.

I don't blame anyone wanting to go to Bali or Fiji over Queensland.

I hope any trials on modified quarantine give preference to our frontline workers wanting a break, should they want it.

I'm sorry since when has a relaxing holiday overseas been an entitlement? A privilege not an entitlement. Never has been and never will be. Many do not have the economic means to do so. And Australian holidays need not be expensive, but we've argued this before, so I'm not going to rehash this again.

This is an AFF echo chamber which is completely removed from the reality of 90% of Australians, many whom of which are happy to keep borders closed - at least for the privilege of going on holidays.

 

[dajop]

Am I correct to assume this is the SG PM, also which vaccine is approved for use 12 and over. I have attempted to stay abreast of child vaccine approval ages and in AU I think it is only for 16 and older. I am interested as when travel does open up in AU we will be keen to get MissM vaccinated.

Yes, Singapore PM. The Pfizer vaccine has been supported/approved for use in 12+ age groups:

MOH | News Highlights

Find speeches, press releases, forum replies and parliamentary Q&A.

www.moh.gov.sg

Expert Committee On Covid-19 Vaccination Continues To Endorse Safety And Efficacy Of Pfizer-BioNTech Covid-19 Vaccine In Individuals Aged 12 To 15 Years

www.moh.gov.sg