Predictions of when international flights may resume/bans lifted

[JB expat]

If the majority of Aussies don’t want to travel, fine. Why not include them? (they won’t be flying anyway) As soon as we start restricting it to privileged people I think the messaging suffers

I don't understand

 

[Pusiek]

This is so called road map is just rubbish, most of us will not live long enough to see 80% or more being vaccinated. I do hear already about people not willing to take a jab, because they do not see why should they. Is this so difficult to do it in the same way as Europe and US has done already? Get jabbed and and you are free to travel. Why do I have to suffer on behalf of selfish part of our society, please? What is a difference between a flu vaccination every 12 months and corona one? Once again I do get vaccinated against flu every year, and some people don't.

 

[drron]

Now if I were PM and a certain State Premier asked for an Exemption to travel to Tokyo for the Olympics I would as k the Department to grant it.
But for the application to return I would be a naughty boy and propose they did one of two options.
1.Deny the application for exemption so that they may realise what Australians OS are experiencing.
2.Grant the application to return but make HQ mandatory.Therefore realise what other ordinary Australians even some travelling domestically to their State have gone through.

PS this post is in jest and is not a political statement.

 

[I love to travel]

Now if I were PM and a certain State Premier asked for an Exemption to travel to Tokyo for the Olympics I would as k the Department to grant it.
But for the application to return I would be a naughty boy and propose they did one of two options.
1.Deny the application for exemption so that they may realise what Australians OS are experiencing.
2.Grant the application to return but make HQ mandatory.Therefore realise what other ordinary Australians even some travelling domestically to their State have gone through.

PS this post is in jest and is not a political statement.

I would want all public officials to follow your suggestions

 

[mviy]

AP has already said she will do HQ on return. There is a change.org petition with over 7000 signatures to deny her an exemption to depart until arrivals caps are increased to the point where she is not taking the place of a returning Australian stuck overseas.

I do feel that our politicians should lead by example and not travel if they won’t let the rest of us do so.

That would give them an incentive to relax restrictions and that is ultimately what we need. We need the politicians to see the benefits of opening up as outweighing the risks.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If the majority of Aussies don’t want to travel, fine. Why not include them? (they won’t be flying anyway) As soon as we start restricting it to privileged people I think the messaging suffers

If it is true that the majority of Aussies ‘don’t care’ about overseas travel, and won’t go anyway, why exclude them from the ‘opening up’ plan? At the moment the focus is on business travellers and students, and I dare say that grates with the aussies that are excluded from that group. Why not say ‘hey, we get everyone vaccinated and everyone will be free to travel’?

 

[melbmelb]

There is a lot of concern the Sinopharm and Sinovac vaccines are not effective against Delta variants (hence latest wave in countries Indonesia, Cambodia, etc that have used those vaccines). If the Australian gov relaxes quarantine for 'fully vaccinated' students (and travellers) vaccinated with less effective vaccines, that's going to be a complete mess.

We'll end up going back to stage one ad infinitum because the students are wanted from countries where less effective vaccines are used.

 

[JB expat]

If it is true that the majority of Aussies ‘don’t care’ about overseas travel, and won’t go anyway, why exclude them from the ‘opening up’ plan? At the moment the focus is on business travellers and students, and I dare say that grates with the aussies that are excluded from that group. Why not say ‘hey, we get everyone vaccinated and everyone will be free to travel’?

I still don’t understand- exclude how and from what? I’m referring to your response to my comment where I listed a number of ways they could incentivise people who don’t want to travel overseas.

 

[trevella]

If it is true that the majority of Aussies ‘don’t care’ about overseas travel, and won’t go anyway, why exclude them from the ‘opening up’ plan? At the moment the focus is on business travellers and students, and I dare say that grates with the aussies that are excluded from that group. Why not say ‘hey, we get everyone vaccinated and everyone will be free to travel’?

It’s important to distinguish between a lot of people saying something, and you simply saying the same thing again and again and again and again.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I still don’t understand- exclude how and from what? I’m referring to your response to my comment where I listed a number of ways they could incentivise people who don’t want to travel overseas.

Excluding anyone who’s not a business traveller from being eligible to travel once borders start to open. What’s the incentive in the current messaging? You get vaccinated so someone else can go on a business trip (cough) holiday?

 

[jakeseven7]

Maybe... but those working in health care, or in contact with the most vulnerable, may still require frequent testing. If one nurse in a covid ward gets the virus, it could mean all staff that were primary contacts need to isolate, etc. Lots of things to be worked out.

Hardly earth shattering problems to sort.
Why are you obsessed with locked everyone up for ever?!

I don't understand

Don’t bother. Weird agenda...

 

[RAM]

Actually that is not what was said at all. I watched that broadcast. Dr Chant confirmed authorities hadn’t been able to definitively confirm (thats is very different to ruling it out) the limo driver was patient zero, but his genome sequencing matched that of the Delta variant that had been recorded in the US.

Other countries dont have the same test regimes for air crew, so we may never get a test result to provide an exact link to an individual, but that doesnt mean they were not the source.

“Obviously at the beginning when we have a diagnosis in someone who transports flight crew, I think that it is reasonable that we would make that assumption, and that is probably on strong epidemiological grounds, that that is likely to be the hypothesis,” she said.

When asked about the limos driver claim that he caught it at the cafe, Dr Chantt gave it no credence and that he should come forward if he had extra information to share but they had not found in any of the testing done here an earlier genomic link than the drivers.

You need to remember at that time the driver was being threatened with legal action so in his interests to circulate another theory to cast doubt on where he got to dflect from not wearing PPE, being vaccinated or testign regularly.

The flight crew remains the assumed source.

It was mentioned several times that the Fedex crew tested negative.

The limo driver had been confirmed as having abided with all requirements (more holes in the system) within a week of testing positive & he continues to maintain that he thinks it was the same Cafe where multiple people have caught it despite not being close to the limo driver, & he did not walk past them nor their outside tables.

The quote you included is a very well crafted reply by Kerry. It does not state it is the current hypothesis, just that 'we did not get it wrong in assuming he was the index case' as it was "reasonable that we would make that assumption". Past tense.

After it came back that the flight crew tested negative it was no longer reasonable.

Spin doctoring by Dr Chant at her best.

Previously it has been stressed repeatedly by Gladys, Brad & Kerry that NSW NEVER makes assumptions about the source, but rely on the evidence.

Of course, this time was different.

BTW - it was not said 'matched' the US delta variant but was similar to.

 

[RAM]

If you can’t afford the bond then you should only be allowed to leave the country if you meet existing exemption criteria and do hotel quarantine. We’re talking about ways to relax the restrictions for more people to be able to travel above the existing caps. Fines are not as effective as bonds. With bonds the fines are prepaid whereas with fines some may choose not to pay and potentially get away with it. So fines alone are nowhere near as effective a deterrent to doing the wrong thing.

A bond would also help to sort out whether trips are really important or not. If they are important then you will find a way to find the cash for it.

So those that have the financial means can do whatever they want and those that don't, cannot. The Goldman's theory.

Just like the current system for getting into Australia - those that have the cash can buy business or 1st class and the commoners stay stranded overseas 'eating cake'. Those with serious financial means can quarantine at home. George Orwell eat your heart out!

Glad at least the NZ Govt focused on the community as a whole and decide the arrivals order based on citizenship not financial wealth like the Australian Govt - so it clearly shows up the thinking in Canberra. NZ has no 'stranded' citizens nor PRs.

 

[JB expat]

Excluding anyone who’s not a business traveller from being eligible to travel once borders start to open. What’s the incentive in the current messaging? You get vaccinated so someone else can go on a business trip (cough) holiday?

I haven't heard anyone say "exclude" others. I have heard start with...which is not the same thing. Also, I have agreed that the messaging should be broader, focusing on all the other items I listed above which go well beyond the international border.

 

[drron]

There is a lot of concern the Sinopharm and Sinovac vaccines are not effective against Delta variants (hence latest wave in countries Indonesia, Cambodia, etc that have used those vaccines). If the Australian gov relaxes quarantine for 'fully vaccinated' students (and travellers) vaccinated with less effective vaccines, that's going to be a complete mess.

We'll end up going back to stage one ad infinitum because the students are wanted from countries where less effective vaccines are used.

Easy as you can use a list of acceptable vaccines.
Greece initially listed only vaccines approved by the EMA.
But recently a backflip and they now accept all vaccines.

Greece to Accept All Vaccines for Entry Into the Country - Greece Is

In a recent announcement, the health committee advising the government on the pandemic have recommended approval of all vaccines for entry into the country.

www.greece-is.com

Surely not related to this.

China's Xi on investment drive in EU member Greece

China and Greece have signed 16 bilateral agreements outlining cooperation in a broad range of sectors during a visit by Chinese President Xi Jinping aimed at furthering a major global investment initiative inside the European Union

abcnews.go.com

 

[Pushka]

So those that have the financial means can do whatever they want and those that don't, cannot. The Goldman's theory.

Hasnt that always been the way of the world? Can't afford to fly? You don't. Can't afford to buy a house? Rent.

But NZ seems to have done this well. I don't think anyone is arguing against their model.

 

[RAM]

While I have sympathy for your situation and without going into my own, we cannot make national policy based on 0.000001% of the population. If she has that threatening a condition, is immunocompromised and is unable to be vaccinated then i probably should have added another zero, but my advice would be for her not to be around children at all as they are germ factories.

0.000001% of the population is 0.255 people.

There are quite a few more seriously at risk, +/- 1 million or so.

No easy solutions, just too many knee-jerk reactions in place of considered planning.

 

[RAM]

Hasnt that always been the way of the world? Can't afford to fly? You don't. Can't afford to buy a house? Rent.

But NZ seems to have done this well. I don't think anyone is arguing against their model.

Once you are stranded overseas despite having a previously ticketed return flight - then allowing the 'elite' to do as they wish is more akin to Russia, North Korea & China than a supposedly Western democracy called Australia. AFter all a reasonable number were stranded due to Q pulling the plug on international operations on June 9th, 2020.

The only difference seemingly is that in those three countries you need to be a paid up member of their respective governing parties & meet with favour from the hierachy.

On second thoughts....

The question remains - why hasn't a 'queue' system been established in Australia. The NZ 'experiment' has gone on successfully for over a year, so that is no longer an excuse.

 

[Lynda2475]

After it came back that the flight crew tested negative it was no longer reasonable.

There was a segment on the ABC news today re how poorly Sinovac is performing in both Chile and Indonesia, with many fully vaccinated health care workers dying from Covid.

So I hope that our border control doesn't simply add it to the list because WHO did, its clearly not very good.

After it came back that the flight crew tested negative it was no longer reasonable.

That just means they tested negative at the one point in time they were tested, since there was no follow up testing. They are still the most likely source, given none of the cases diagnosed at that cafe have older infection than the driver. He is butt covering.

 

[melbmelb]

Easy as you can use a list of acceptable vaccines.
Greece initially listed only vaccines approved by the EMA.
But recently a backflip and they now accept all vaccines.

Surely not related to this.

China's Xi on investment drive in EU member Greece

China and Greece have signed 16 bilateral agreements outlining cooperation in a broad range of sectors during a visit by Chinese President Xi Jinping aimed at furthering a major global investment initiative inside the European Union

abcnews.go.com

Exactly - Australia 'needs' international students so any vaccine will likely be put on an acceptable vaccine list. An concerns will be discounted as anti-vax and/or racist and/or 'you don't understand the bigger economic picture' spin.

It will be interesting to see if the Australian education system is still attractive while the Chinese government doesn't think we play nicely.