Predictions of when international flights may resume/bans lifted

[Princess Fiona]

Surely for international the key is a highly accurate, inexpensive, 5min test.

Mandatory test all arrivals at the airport. Into quaro for 72hours. Retest. Release if clear; else 14days self paid iso.

If you are coming from a high risk COVID area equivalent to big chance of direct contact then the conservative incubation period should stand. 14 days isolation.

 

[PineappleSkip]

Quarantine on return probably does disadvantage our front-line workers the. Other can use quarantine as an extension of working from home.

In my case the overseas project restarted (like the rest if the world) about a month ago. Everyone back on deck, including from NZ, except the pineapple from Australia.

Quarantine was small beer among the impediments to my return. Known time frame, known cost, you just budget for that. The killers in my case were risk to delivery up until intended departure about whether I would be exempted to leave - exemptions are still a sea of murk - and duty of care/cost risk about whether I would be able to return or get bumped off flight(s).

Of course the open ended nature of this nonsense means the same impediments exist in contracting to future projects or bids for work for goodness knows how long.

cheers skip

 

[jakeseven7]

As I said a highly accurate inexpensive 5min test.

That one clearly doesn't meet the criteria.

Thankfully that article is ancient news from May, many articles and studies after that article were refuted and gave context to the use of the test and the FDA walked back their comments.

We will hopefully see this system in Australia shortly once TGA approves it, alongside several other rapid tests which they are in the process of approving.

If you are coming from a high risk COVID area equivalent to big chance of direct contact then the conservative incubation period should stand. 14 days isolation.

'There is a 100% chance that not every test is 100% accurate, 100% of the time' - some TGA boffin, but very true.

So once the borders open if you are coming in internationally from a high risk area then quarantine still may be required, hopefully by then quarantine at home is allowed though, in combination with testing.

 

[jase05]

hopefully by then quarantine at home is allowed though, in combination with testing.

That would be nice but unfortunately humans have shown they can’t be trusted.
Maybe ankle bracelets or stricter penalties are required for breaches.
Personally I’d make the penalties so severe that no one would dare break the quarantine at home rules

 

[MEL_Traveller]

That would be nice but unfortunately humans have shown they can’t be trusted.
Maybe ankle bracelets or stricter penalties are required for breaches.
Personally I’d make the penalties so severe that no one would dare break the quarantine at home rules

I thought the issue with ankle bracelets was that it doesn't stop people visiting you? I could be in quarantine but have a family gathering of 20 for a wedding at my home!

 

[jakeseven7]

That would be nice but unfortunately humans have shown they can’t be trusted.
Maybe ankle bracelets or stricter penalties are required for breaches.
Personally I’d make the penalties so severe that no one would dare break the quarantine at home rules

There is no infallibe system right, I agree, but if there is a rapid test that is 99% effective at establishing a positive, you are tested as negative and are sent home and are 95% compliant then the actual risk starts becoming very small and if their are breaches, manageable. As an example.

People (not you!) need to start wrapping their heads around that here is no perfect solution, system, test, quarantine, anything with this or anything in life.

 

[jase05]

I thought the issue with ankle bracelets was that it doesn't stop people visiting you? I could be in quarantine but have a family gathering of 20 for a wedding at my home!

True. Perhaps the government could run a drone over properties
I don’t have the answers but if people are going to be allowed to quarantined at home they need to be doing the right thing or it stuffs it for everyone

 

[jase05]

There is no infallibe system right, I agree, but if there is a rapid test that is 99% effective at establishing a positive, you are tested as negative and are sent home and are 95% compliant then the actual risk starts becoming very small and if their are breaches, manageable. As an example.

People (not you!) need to start wrapping their heads around that here is no perfect solution, system, test, quarantine, anything with this or anything in life.

Absolutely agree we have to find a way but I think increasing penalties would be a good deterrent. Home quarantine should be seen as a privilege that shouldn’t be abused

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

There is no infallibe system right, I agree, but if there is a rapid test that is 99% effective at establishing a positive, you are tested as negative and are sent home and are 95% compliant then the actual risk starts becoming very small and if their are breaches, manageable. As an example.

People (not you!) need to start wrapping their heads around that here is no perfect solution, system, test, quarantine, anything with this or anything in life.

Absolutely agree we have to find a way but I think increasing penalties would be a good deterrent. Home quarantine should be seen as a privilege that shouldn’t be abused

If the rapid test is 99% accurate, surely a reduced or no quarantine would be reasonable regardless of or depending what risk level country you came from?

 

[jakeseven7]

If the rapid test is 99% accurate, surely a reduced or no quarantine would be reasonable regardless of or depending what risk level country you came from?

The rapids are probably more like in the low 90's % in some instances, there are many of them now but I'm sure the TGA will endorse the 'known' providers that are established here and with their partner regulatory bodies. The 99% I was referring to was the positive rate (i.e. if it is a positive case then 99% chance it is actually a positive, not a false positive). I won't go into accuracy and sensitivities, people can google each of them!

 

[davistev]

I closed my car rental company this month. It was a small family owned business with 53 cars. The cars have gone or are going to auction. Not much more to say really - travel is dead and my decision was to cut my losses now and face reality. Most of my customers were domestic workers on interstate contracts, many long term back packers on working holiday visas and expat Aussies who do monthly rentals. It was a niche market with many years of repeat customers.

My next step is to apply for a travel exemption to leave Australia for good with my family. I ask myself - was all this avoidable? Many many other business will follow. My only advice is to not be emotional on keeping your family business alive. Secure and relinquish your assets, convert to cash and avoid throwing good money after bad. The days of past are not coming back anytime soon.

Now - to get out of Australia

 

[Princess Fiona]

If the rapid test is 99% accurate, surely a reduced or no quarantine would be reasonable regardless of or depending what risk level country you came from?

No, it depends on when you were exposed and when you develop symptoms as to how accurate the test result is.

 

[dajop]

There is no infallibe system right, I agree, but if there is a rapid test that is 99% effective at establishing a positive, you are tested as negative and are sent home and are 95% compliant then the actual risk starts becoming very small and if their are breaches, manageable. As an example.

It could be started at least with a declaration of all countries visited in previous 14 days, and countries on the low risk end of the scale instigate the home isolation provisions. If not relying on rapid tests, one day hotel quarantine whilst waiting for results would be better than now.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

It could be started at least with a declaration of all countries visited in previous 14 days, and countries on the low risk end of the scale instigate the home isolation provisions. If not relying on rapid tests, one day hotel quarantine whilst waiting for results would be better than now.

Mandatory quarantine at traveller’s cost v Choice of quarantine (own booking) v Home isolation is very marginal at the travel level. It’s the time of quarantine that will make a bigger difference. Yes, small steps, but the type of quarantine/isolation will make very little difference.

 

[dajop]

Mandatory quarantine at traveller’s cost v Choice of quarantine (own booking) v Home isolation is very marginal at the travel level. It’s the time of quarantine that will make a bigger difference. Yes, small steps, but the type of quarantine/isolation will make very little difference.

But small steps first!!

Cost and time are both issues at the moment, although for retirees and those who can work remotely the time is probably not the deal breaker.

 

[jakeseven7]

It is time to start helping out some more....

-----
States informed increased international arrivals 'a decision, not a proposal'


Scott Morrison told reporters earlier that increased passengers from overseas will be landing in Australia's states and territories whether leaders like it or not.

Australia will raise its weekly cap on international arrivals from 4000 to 6000 from Friday next week, with state leaders agreeing to increase – and in some cases, double – their weekly intake to help get the more than 26,000 Aussies still stranded overseas home.


"We've lifted the caps up not all the way up to where they were before, but I hope to get to that position in the not-to-distant future because we've got to enable more Australians to come back, we've got past that initial crisis," the PM said earlier today.

Queensland, NSW and WA will take an extra 500 passengers each week, while SA will take 360 – with Mr Morrison saying they'll be forced to accept the new arrivals.

"Everyone will just do their job. The plane will land, with people on them, and they will be arriving. It's a decision, it's not a proposal.

"The Commonwealth Government has made a decision, that those caps have been moved to those levels and planes will be able to fly to those ports carrying that many passengers a week."

New cluster spread through rule-breakers

Prime Minister Scott Morrison today announced his plans to bring some 24,000 stranded Australians home from overseas - but WA Premier Mark McGowan revealed his state won't be taking part.

www.news.com.au

 

[get me outta here]

Just musing - do the returnees have to pay $3000 hotel quarantine now? (I’m a bit behind on this information).
And, if someone prepurchased flights to get in before that cut off date to get of free hotel Q before the $3K was to be brought in, then the flight is cancelled, does that mean they are now up for the $3000 quarantine - any thoughts please?

 

[dajop]

Just musing - do the returnees have to pay $3000 hotel quarantine now? (I’m a bit behind on this information).
And, if someone prepurchased flights to get in before that cut off date to get of free hotel Q before the $3K was to be brought in, then the flight is cancelled, does that mean they are now up for the $3000 quarantine - any thoughts please?

It varies by state.

NSW it's $3000 (+ $1000 per extra adult, $500 per extra child) Children under 3 not charged.
SA it's $3000 (+ $1000 per extra adult, $500 per extra child) Children under 3 not charged.
WA it's $180/day + $60/person, so $2520 ( + $840 per extra person). Children under 6 not charged.
QLD it's $2800 ($910 for extra adult, + $455 for extra child).

No international arrivals to NT right now, but they charge $2500, and $5000 for families (i.e. 2 people or more in the room),

Good question about flight being cancelled. We had some award flight into SYD on SQ during December, booked before the charge was brought in, that was cancelled this week, we've maintained the PNR with various waitlists, and we might ask if we can add revenue flights to the PNR instead. I am not sure what the approach is to cancelled flights.

 

[get me outta here]

Thanks for that. The cancelled flights are an expensive problem both for what was a saver booking and the charge for q. Keep us posted on how the 2nd issue unfolds please.

It varies by state.

NSW it's $3000 (+ $1000 per extra adult, $500 per extra child) Children under 3 not charged.
SA it's $3000 (+ $1000 per extra adult, $500 per extra child) Children under 3 not charged.
WA it's $180/day + $60/person, so $2520 ( + $840 per extra person). Children under 6 not charged.
QLD it's $2800 ($910 for extra adult, + $455 for extra child).

No international arrivals to NT right now, but they charge $2500, and $5000 for families (i.e. 2 people or more in the room),

Good question about flight being cancelled. We had some award flight into SYD on SQ during December, booked before the charge was brought in, that was cancelled this week, we've maintained the PNR with various waitlists, and we might ask if we can add revenue flights to the PNR instead. I am not sure what the approach is to cancelled flights.

 

[Seat0B]

Of course the open ended nature of this nonsense means the same impediments exist in contracting to future projects or bids for work for goodness knows how long.

And it is pretty much the same for internal work contracts if you live in ACT/NSW at the moment too. Even worse for VIC, but people know about that and probably don't make plans for working interstate at the moment. if we can't sort out internally, I don;t see how we will ever sort out for international