Qantas boosts international capacity, wet lease Finnair aircraft

[HS-TQE]

Most Bilaterals between Australia and overseas countries generally don't include ADL in their bilateral, and in many cases ADL is considered a regional city (not counting towards flight cap/seat caps/etc).

Hence why the International flying ex-ADL is mostly covered by overseas carriers (apart from JQ and VA's DPS services)

 

[jakeseven7]

You are very lucky to book on Qantas and actually get a decent product for once

I actually have no issue with the current gen QF J product, really like it - but each to their own. I’m always excited to try new airlines though that are highly recommended by people I respect like Princess Fiona!

 

[jakeseven7]

It’s not about population though.

Poor relative yield, has been that way for years. ADL needs to get more $, more corporates, business, HNWIs etc etc etc. As you probably know

The token i-flying that ADL gets now is by carriers not constrained by Australian laws and subsequent cost bases that we incur here to our disadvantage, meaning more services out of higher yielding ports where there is still demand to be soaked up / stolen from other carriers will always be preference over ADL. Certain carriers are also heavily subsidised by hook or crook but let’s not go there…

It’s not personal, it’s just business economics

Correct, thanks for your input!

I’m always surprised at the lack of ‘activity’ I guess in Adelaide. We crunch the numbers all the time for socio demo purposes to inform investment decisions and Adelaide (although improving) has a serious lack of business investment, $ etc.

Nice place to visit though, lovely city.

 

[jase05]

I actually have no issue with the current gen QF J product, really like it - but each to their own. I’m always excited to try new airlines though that are highly recommended by people I respect like Princess Fiona!

I haven’t tried the AY seating myself but I’m not a huge fan of the QF product myself. It is very interesting though to hear the massive contrasts in opinion over the AY seating though. Seems you either love it or hate it with no middle ground so I’m keen to try it one day

 

[jase05]

It’s not about population though.

Poor relative yield, has been that way for years. ADL needs to get more $, more corporates, business, HNWIs etc etc etc. As you probably know

The token i-flying that ADL gets now is by carriers not constrained by Australian laws and subsequent cost bases that we incur here to our disadvantage, meaning more services out of higher yielding ports where there is still demand to be soaked up / stolen from other carriers will always be preference over ADL. Certain carriers are also heavily subsidised by hook or crook but let’s not go there…

It’s not personal, it’s just business economics

I do agree with all that just stating that we are left out in the cold by QF so as I rule I’ve pretty much boycotted them. If they included ADL I’d probably consider them more. As it is I’m happy enough with the current lot and with Cathay and possibly Emirates to return it’s not a bad assortment. The network to NZ will be a huge hole again though when QR pulls that service unfortunately

 

[justinbrett]

You are very lucky to book on Qantas and actually get a decent product for once

I seem to get lucky often

 

[CaptJCool]

FinReview had an interesting article on this Saturday morning

 

[Quickstatus]

AY has had outsourced Cabin Crew at SIN and HKG for a long time now.

Sure but still = labour hire companies.
.

That would mean that Finnish based cabin crew don't get to operate to Asia, sort of like Aus based cabin crew don't get to operate to LHR?

 

[Himeno]

I don't remember the contractual basis, but Cathay operated some Hong Kong service for Qantas when the A380s were grounded.

When the A380s were grounded after QF32, BA 777's operated some BKK/SIN-LHR flights for Qantas.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Sure but still = labour hire companies.
.

That would mean that Finnish based cabin crew don't get to operate to Asia, sort of like Aus based cabin crew don't get to operate to LHR?

I’ve no idea how AY subcontracts the crew in Asia. But I know they aren’t under the same pay and conditions as AY mainline. The Finnish crew mainly do SH and the USA routes.

IIRC there was some attempt last year to get more subcontracted crew and put them on the USA routes etc but there was some industrial action around that. Don’t know the outcome.

 

[Quickstatus]

The full treaty isn’t available online so I don’t even know if they have 5th freedom rights.

No official treaty. Just an MOU in operation (at the moment). MUO unavailable.

 

[RooFlyer]

I seem to get lucky often

May have to do with what's considered 'decent product'. To me QSuites with the QR menu is a decent J product. A recliner in B737 on 5 hour international overnight service with NP rabbit food, isn't.

And I love ADL's international services (by other carriers) @jase05 . EG QR - better availability than their SYD/MEL/BNE services; book later and still get seats wanted. EDIT: And QR QSuites award seats available!

 

[justinbrett]

May have to do with what's considered 'decent product'. To me QSuites with the QR menu is a decent J product. A recliner in B737 on 5 hour international overnight service with NP rabbit food, isn't.

And I love ADL's international services (by other carriers) @jase05 . EG QR - better availability than their SYD/MEL/BNE services; book later and still get seats wanted.

No, but if I fly QFi J, I'm normally going to the US, and I really like their 787 J product (and I guess by extension the new A380, but I haven't flown on the new config). I've never set foot on a QF aircraft in Europe (yet I have been many times) and only twice in Asia (quite a long time ago now).

I'm not flying to the US via DOH.

 

[justinbrett]

No official treaty. Just an MOU in operation (at the moment). MUO unavailable.

There is a treaty that goes with the MOU which is in operational effect

Agreement between the Government of the Republic of Finland and the Government of the Commonwealth of Australia relating to Air Services, initialled on 15 June 1999 (hereinafter referred to as "Draft Australia-Finland Agreement"). Supplemented by the Memorandum of Understanding signed at Helsinki on 15 June 1999

 

[RooFlyer]

I'm not flying to the US via DOH.

I'd guess you are more time constrained than budget constrained; for random dates, during couple of weeks mid October,

SYD-DOH-JFK cheapest business between $7.3K and $12.7K on QR; 32 hours
SYD-AKL or DFW-JFK begins at $12.8 on QF; 21-23 hours

 

[justinbrett]

I'd guess you are more time constrained than budget constrained; for random dates, during couple of weeks mid October,

SYD-DOH-JFK cheapest business between $7.3K and $12.7K on QR; 32 hours
SYD-AKL or DFW-JFK begins at $12.8 on QF; 21-23 hours

As I said, not interested in going via DOH.

 

[jase05]

As I said, not interested in going via DOH.

I can understand that. A lot of people I know have no interest going via the ME.

 

[justinbrett]

I can understand that. A lot of people I know have no interest going via the ME.

Just to clarify - not to the US via ME.

I used to live in Abu Dhabi - no problems with that part of the world. I just have no interest in extending the journey by 50-75%.

I am going to South Africa via the ME later this year (but stopping off in DOH, AUH and DXB for a bit of a holiday).

 

[jase05]

Just to clarify - not to the US via ME.

I used to live in Abu Dhabi - no problems with that part of the world. I just have no interest in extending the journey by 50-75%.

I am going to South Africa via the ME later this year (but stopping off in DOH, AUH and DXB for a bit of a holiday).

Yeah, fair enough. I love that part of the world and since time isn’t an issue when we travel if we do end up getting around to going to the US I’d imagine we go via the ME

 

[Quickstatus]

Agreement between the Government of the Republic of Finland and the Government of the Commonwealth of Australia relating to Air Services,

When I read the ** I get the impression that it's not a treaty - some agreement of a lower status than a treaty.

In any case there is an agreement/treaties/MOU/etc which appears invisible

One possibility of 400/day equivalent is

AY 297 seats 9 flights a week via SIN/BKK
So they could do 5 via SIN and 4 via BKK a week assuming appropriate slot pairs at the airports
QF 236 seats / day via PER? New route?