Qantas Delays/Cancellations

[froggerADL]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

I am travelling on QF1 to London in September and as I have an important engagement in the morning of arrival I have been keeping check on the arrival of this flight in London for the last 3 months. At present it stands at 22% on time or early and 18% > 60 minutes late including 1 DNA, the remainder were under an hour late. Although its not QF9 Dubai seems to cause Qantas a few problems on a number of flights.

If I have an important engagement in the morning I always arrange my travel so that I am due to arrive at least the night before, whether it's domestic or international.

I do a similar thing when when using local public transport. If I have an important engagement at 9am I will plan to arrive at 8am to allow for delays.

I flew 180 sectors with QF last year and didn't miss a single imortant engagement.

 

[simongr]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Dunno about that 'Midas touch'. At one point I thought I was a s**t magnet.

Like that time when you blew up the air cylinder?

Personally I would almost enjoy a one hour delay outbound. More time in the lounge and a later arrival into the UK.

 

[jb747]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

? ? I'm seeing QF9 MEL-DXB over last 62 flights - 48% on time, 22% late, 16% very late, 12% excessive. Average delay 32 mins, stdev 57 max delay 401 mins.

Comparable figures for EK407 (which leaves about 6 hrs later( over 123 flights are 65%, 22%, 7%, 6%. Average delay 21mins, max 136 mins.

Actually they aren't quite as comparable as you might think. That 6 hours makes all the difference. Rather like comparing a run in your car in peak hour to the middle of the night.

I think the timings have recently been adjusted slightly, and that's an attempt to move away from what is a busy arrival time in Dubai.

Anyway, last night the aircraft left Dubai a bit late, and got to London more or less on time.

 

[SeatBackForward]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Haven't the Corportised airports caught onto Express Arrivals runways yet?

 

[dajop]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Actually they aren't quite as comparable as you might think. That 6 hours makes all the difference. Rather like comparing a run in your car in peak hour to the middle of the night.

I'd believe it, curious how the timing would go. My one and only experience arriving in DXB, was I think around midnight (ex-SIN on DXB) and we circled for a while before landing - apparently due to congestion.

 

[Melburnian1]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

I recently travelled on QF9: we left MEL just under 40 minutes late (due to a pilot either calling in or more likely going off at the airport sick an hour before the scheduled 1525 hours departure) with the new pilot presumably having to do the paperwork (or the iPad or whatever as it is nowdays) and after losing time en route to DXB and barely managing to reduce the on ground time at DXB, we arrived LHR just a little more than 30 minutes late, pickingt up the usual 30 minutes or so on the DXB - LHR sector.

Perhaps the replacement MEL - DXB pilot was the redoubtable jb747 of this forum.

Timekeeping might have been even worse if QF9 was full but it had less than 300 passengers on board so boarding and alighting would have been a little quicker than with a full complement.

 

[jb747]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

I recently travelled on QF9: we left MEL just under 40 minutes late (due to a pilot either calling in or more likely going off at the airport sick an hour before the scheduled 1525 hours departure) with the new pilot presumably having to do the paperwork (or the iPad or whatever as it is nowdays) and after losing time en route to DXB and barely managing to reduce the on ground time at DXB, we arrived LHR just a little more than 30 minutes late, pickingt up the usual 30 minutes or so on the DXB - LHR sector.

Perhaps the replacement MEL - DXB pilot was the redoubtable jb747 of this forum.

Timekeeping might have been even worse if QF9 was full but it had less than 300 passengers on board so boarding and alighting would have been a little quicker than with a full complement.

Curious. Do you remember the date of departure from Melbourne.

Losing a pilot in Melbourne is a very big issue for the company. Because Melbourne is not a base for the 380, there are NO pilots who are actually based there. A few live there, but that's not the same thing. A pilot cannot be replaced from Sydney, as a start in Sydney would exceed the CASA duty time regulations. So, if a replacement was found for your flight, he was basically someone on a day off who felt like helping out.

 

[JessicaTam]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Curious. Do you remember the date of departure from Melbourne.

Losing a pilot in Melbourne is a very big issue for the company. Because Melbourne is not a base for the 380, there are NO pilots who are actually based there. A few live there, but that's not the same thing. A pilot cannot be replaced from Sydney, as a start in Sydney would exceed the CASA duty time regulations. So, if a replacement was found for your flight, he was basically someone on a day off who felt like helping out.

And hopefully suitably recompensed?

 

[jb747]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

On the original topic....

Last trip. Left early. Arrived Dubai, more or less on time. Arrived London exactly on time. On the way back...departed London about 15 minutes late (ATC), but on time in Dubai. Delayed slightly ex Dubai (ATC-traffic), but early in Sydney.

So far this trip. Left Melbourne about 3 minutes late (traffic as there was another aircraft behind when we wanted to push). Dubai again, more or less on time. London to come.

 

[Melburnian1]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Curious. Do you remember the date of departure from Melbourne.

Losing a pilot in Melbourne is a very big issue for the company. Because Melbourne is not a base for the 380, there are NO pilots who are actually based there. A few live there, but that's not the same thing. A pilot cannot be replaced from Sydney, as a start in Sydney would exceed the CASA duty time regulations. So, if a replacement was found for your flight, he was basically someone on a day off who felt like helping out.

The date of departure ex MEL was Friday 19 July.

The first officer reported it to passengers via the PA as a 'staff member going off sick', but upon making further enquiries I was told that it was the pilot.

I understand that QF has cabin crew based in MEL who run the A380 legs to DXB, LAX and LHR, but as Jessica states, it may be different for pilots and first officers if QF only has A380 certified staff like this based in SYD.

The departure delay wasn't too bad given the circumstances, but I am now mystified how QF could find a pilot at say 1430 after the original one went off sick if it doesn't have any based in MEL. If the latter is true, wouldn't pilots and first officers constantly deadhead on domestic QF flights between MEL and SYD to start their A380 duties in MEL or to get back home to SYD? Why would they overnight at an hotel in MEL (unless before doing a DXB or LAX it is a requirement to be completely 'fresh' so that they do not exceed their permitted hours of duty)?

Wouldn't any pilots who live in MEL but work the A380s be uncontactable or unavailable if they had a day off, even if they were in MEL? Unless they are on standby, there's no requirement as I understand it to be ready to be at tghe airport within two hours or whatever.

Perhaps the pilot went off sick more than an hour before the timetabled 1525 hours departure, but that's not what we were told.

 

[JohnPhelan]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Wouldn't any pilots who live in MEL but work the A380s be uncontactable or unavailable if they had a day off, even if they were in MEL?

I believe some people who live in MEL do have telephones, and I suspect QF has the home and mobile numbers of its pilots!

They couldn't guarantee they'd get someone, but it would certainly be worth doing a ring around of A380 pilots who live in MEL.

 

[jb747]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

I understand that QF has cabin crew based in MEL who run the A380 legs to DXB, LAX and LHR, but as Jessica states, it may be different for pilots and first officers if QF only has A380 certified staff like this based in SYD.

For the pilots, the 380 base is only in Sydney. Of course, being the airline industry, people can live wherever they like, and there are a few 380 Captains who live in Melbourne. I think I can come up with five names.

The departure delay wasn't too bad given the circumstances, but I am now mystified how QF could find a pilot at say 1430 after the original one went off sick if it doesn't have any based in MEL. If the latter is true, wouldn't pilots and first officers constantly deadhead on domestic QF flights between MEL and SYD to start their A380 duties in MEL or to get back home to SYD? Why would they overnight at an hotel in MEL (unless before doing a DXB or LAX it is a requirement to be completely 'fresh' so that they do not exceed their permitted hours of duty)?

The deadheading, and overnighting in hotels in Melbourne is exactly what happens. The MEL/LAX trips are built so that they both start and finish with a night in Melbourne, and pax at both ends. The LHR/DXB trips either start with the paxing sector, or end with it, though there are currently none that both start and finish in MEL or SYD (operating).

Wouldn't any pilots who live in MEL but work the A380s be uncontactable or unavailable if they had a day off, even if they were in MEL? Unless they are on standby, there's no requirement as I understand it to be ready to be at tghe airport within two hours or whatever.

I somebody goes sick in Melbourne, they CANNOT be replaced by someone in Sydney. The duty would start the instant they turned up for work in Sydney, so when you add that time to the Melbourne flight and transit, there is no way they would be legal to operate either the LAX or DXB service.

On aircraft types that don't fly super long range sectors, having the standby in Sydney doesn't matter all that much. When we operated via SIN is also wasn't too big an issue. But now it is, and those of us who live there are pushing for some sort of solution. I guess the imperative won't exist until the day comes that nobody will help out, and the service has to be cancelled. Right now though, when I'm given a standby, I have to pay my own way to Sydney, and then find accommodation for the day, so that I can sit on a phone up there.

Perhaps the pilot went off sick more than an hour before the timetabled 1525 hours departure, but that's not what we were told.

Doesn't make any difference. You still need a local night before you can depart.

 

[jb747]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

I believe some people who live in MEL do have telephones, and I suspect QF has the home and mobile numbers of its pilots!

They couldn't guarantee they'd get someone, but it would certainly be worth doing a ring around of A380 pilots who live in MEL.

I would be a very quick ring around. Of the five who live there, 3 would most likely be away. One is a sim instructor, and he's more often to be found in Sydney. So that leaves a ring around of about one person.... On average....

Actually I've thought of another name...so a ring around of two..

 

[Melburnian1]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

jb747, thank you for your most comprehensive reply. If you were the staff member who both lived in Melbourne (although from your previous posts I think you may live in SYD) and who assisted on the day, then thank you very much for coming in to work - at the start of a weekend - at very short notice for an extended 'tour of duty.' If it wasn't you, then please pass on my thanks to the person who did.

I am not in the airline industry so I cannot profess to know all its costs, but apart from the relatively minor cost of overnighting SYD-based pilots and first officers constantly in MEL hotels, a more important issue is that QF seems to be risking cancelled A380 flights to either DXB/ LHR or LAX ex MEL if it cannot find 'one of the five' who live in MEL to replace an A380 qualified 'driver' who lives in or near SYD and is based at the latter but is unable to report for duty and does not turn up at short notice.

Surely the odds are that the day will come when QF cannot 'find someone' and has to cancel the flight, as jb747 implies. This means paying for hotel overnights for out of towners who book for the MEL flight, plus telling local residents to go home again and come back in say 16 hours once QF has sent someone down from SYD and put that pilot or first officer up in an hotel.

This then leads to cabin crew in DXB, LHR or LAX being out of position and due for extra allowances or wages thanks to the delay to the operating aircraft. Passenger and crew meals may have to be thrown out and replaced.

Most annoyingly, passengers on QF9 or QF93 may then miss air or surface transport connections. For instance, I was travelling by train once I reached London, but would have had to rebook my rail fare at a much higher cost had I not made the originally booked train.

So, jb747, please thank whoever it was who stepped in at presumably short notice. Not a way to run a business that has an asset in the form of an A380 that to make money needs to be kept running to timetable! Little wonder that some QF staff must be 'pushing for a solution' to the MEL lack of an A380 base dilemma!

This sort of management stupidity would not be tolerated in Australia's rail industry where freight trains constantly operate overnight and need to be kept rolling on long hauls such as Melbourne or Parkes to Perth. But then companies such as Asciano (despite their difficulties including a unionised workforce) generally operate profitably whereas QF, for all its supposed smugness about being in the much higher profile international aviation sector, cannot seem to make sustainable profits. Perhaps QF needs to take lessons from surface transport operators that have staff - train drivers and the like - who are constantly required to be away from home.

 

[jb747]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

It isn't as simple as suddenly deciding to have a base in Melbourne. Firstly, it wasn't too big an issue until recently, when the DXB flight started. Flights change. Whilst it's unlikely that the 9/93 will cease being 380s, in the past that's exactly what has happened, so you can't reasonably expect people to move home at the whims of the schedulers. A sudden decision to actually have a 380 base in Melbourne would create some interesting movements within the 380 pilots. Would half of the Sydney people suddenly be forced to move, or become commuters. Or would we retrench them, and find some pilots in Melbourne. And when something changes next year, and we need some in Brisbane..and so on.

A quick solution is to actually add another day to the current MEL/DXB flight, and to call that 'standby' in Melbourne. Not always viable either, due to the fact that you'd need to ensure they actually have some flying hours available (there are weekly/monthly/yearly limits).

Bear in mind though, that standbys don't exist at downline ports. If someone goes sick in LA, the only recourse for a replacement is someone who is on their slip and who is under no obligation to be fit or available for duty.

Melbourne is only a particular issue for me because I happened to live there, yet spent a huge amount of my time doing standby in Sydney. I might also add, that I moved out of Melbourne just last week, and won't be in a position to help with less than 4 hours notice in the future.

 

[Melburnian1]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

I assume that 'type rating' A330 pilits based in MEL for A380s takes months because of the need to do simulator training plus achieve numerous hours of flying experience on the latter planes.

Like many employees in other industries, QF A380-rated pilots might be reluctant to move to MEL or elsewhere if they live in SYD due to family and friend ties, the house they own, the lifestyle and so on.

However since there's no public claim (yet) by QF that it will cease international flying (on which it loses money, although how much in the most recent financial year will be revealed in September, and is always subject to adjustment if costs are moved from one area of a business to another), the community has to assume that A380s will be used by QF out of MEL and SYD for LAX, DXB and LHR for a while (and also SYD - HKG). If all this is so, then establishing a MEL base would be logical but again could not be achieved overnight.

 

[jb747]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

I assume that 'type rating' A330 pilits based in MEL for A380s takes months because of the need to do simulator training plus achieve numerous hours of flying experience on the latter planes.

Like many employees in other industries, QF A380-rated pilots might be reluctant to move to MEL or elsewhere if they live in SYD due to family and friend ties, the house they own, the lifestyle and so on.

However since there's no public claim (yet) by QF that it will cease international flying (on which it loses money, although how much in the most recent financial year will be revealed in September, and is always subject to adjustment if costs are moved from one area of a business to another), the community has to assume that A380s will be used by QF out of MEL and SYD for LAX, DXB and LHR for a while (and also SYD - HKG). If all this is so, then establishing a MEL base would be logical but again could not be achieved overnight.

You don't dual rate pilots on 330/380. You fly one or the other. Conversion takes months and costs multiple 6 figures. And then you have to replace the convertee. Plus you have to move the original 380 pilot elsewhere, and there's his conversion cost, and then the ongoing ripple effect of the person he's displaced. It is neither simple or quick. Easier to simply invent a standby pattern, and park people at a hotel for a week. Even over years, the cost would be less.

 

[erkpod]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

This sort of management stupidity would not be tolerated in Australia's rail industry where freight trains constantly operate overnight and need to be kept rolling on long hauls such as Melbourne or Parkes to Perth.

*snip*

Perhaps QF needs to take lessons from surface transport operators that have staff - train drivers and the like - who are constantly required to be away from home.

There's no shortage of railway stupidity....

Any number of things can happen & what strategies a company has in place over a number of scenarios.

A standby train driver or a standby pilot might seem like a waste of money but if that person is the difference between a delay or a cancellation or an on time departure, I'd rather have them there than not.

 

[serfty]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

jb747, thank you for your most comprehensive reply. If you were the staff member who both lived in Melbourne (although from your previous posts I think you may live in SYD) and who assisted on the day, then thank you very much for coming in to work - at the start of a weekend - at very short notice for an extended 'tour of duty.' If it wasn't you, then please pass on my thanks to the person who did.....

For some further information, please see this very extensive and extremely informative thread with some fascinating commentary from jb747:

http://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/community/your-questions/ask-the-pilot-30478.html

 

[Melburnian1]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Today's QF9 due out at 1525 on Sunday 4 August 2013 is shown as delayed until 1645. It would be interesting to know if it's another case of a pilot or first officer having had to go off sick at fairly short notice, and QF having to find one of the five A380 type-rated staff who live in MEL as a quick replacement given the need for those flying the plane to have overnighted in MEL as per TAFF member jb747's excellent and informative posts. Then again, the delay could be due to 20 other possible factors. At least it doesn't look like the APU has failed as occurred some weeks ago, resulting in a 16 hour overnight delay.