Qantas Delays/Cancellations

[nlagalle]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Today's QF9 due out at 1525 on Sunday 4 August 2013 is shown as delayed until 1645. It would be interesting to know if it's another case of a pilot or first officer having had to go off sick at fairly short notice, and QF having to find one of the five A380 type-rated staff who live in MEL as a quick replacement given the need for those flying the plane to have overnighted in MEL as per TAFF member jb747's excellent and informative posts. Then again, the delay could be due to 20 other possible factors. At least it doesn't look like the APU has failed as occurred some weeks ago, resulting in a 16 hour overnight delay.

There are any number of reasons why it could be delayed, mind you many of us wouldn't mind a 1 hour delay as that would involve more time in the F lounge. IME QF9 has left on time the last 5 times I have flown it.

 

[Melburnian1]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

It didn't leave on time the day on which I travelled. It is particularly interesting in light of QF not having a MEL base for Airbus A380-certified pilots, and TAFF member jb747's comment about whether any future cancellation of QF9 on particular days for immediate lack of a replacement pilot may precipitate a change in QF's thinking, notwithstanding the enormous costs involved in establishing a MEL base and how it would take ages to establish (and as jb747 rightly comments - 'timetables change.')

None of us know whether QF is committed long term to continuing to fly internationally with its own metal, given the difficulty the company has with Australia's sky high wage and salary (and other) costs in making a sustainable profit (or any profit). So that's another reason for maintaining the status qou of putting SYD-based flight crew up in an Melbourne hotel the night before an A380 flight to DXB/ LHR or LAX and 'deadheading' (to use the old USA railway term) them between SYD - MEL for the start of a rotation and back again at the end of a flight in from DXB or LHR.

It's now 1653 MEL time and there's no indication from Flightradar24.com - Live flight tracker! or Qantas Flights | Flight deals to Australia, New Zealand and more from the USA that the delayed QF9 is off its blocks.

 

[nlagalle]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

It didn't leave on time the day on which I travelled. It is particularly interesting in light of QF not having a MEL base for Airbus A380-certified pilots, and TAFF member jb747's comment about whether any future cancellation of QF9 on particular days for immediate lack of a replacement pilot may precipitate a change in QF's thinking, notwithstanding the enormous costs involved in establishing a MEL base and how it would take ages to establish (and as jb747 rightly comments - 'timetables change.')

None of us know whether QF is committed long term to continuing to fly internationally with its own metal, given the difficulty the company has with Australia's sky high wage and salary (and other) costs in making a sustainable profit (or any profit). So that's another reason for maintaining the status qou of putting SYD-based flight crew up in an Melbourne hotel the night before an A380 flight to DXB/ LHR or LAX and 'deadheading' (to use the old USA railway term) them between SYD - MEL for the start of a rotation and back again at the end of a flight in from DXB or LHR.

It's now 1653 MEL time and there's no indication from Flightradar24.com - Live flight tracker! or Qantas Flights | Flight deals to Australia, New Zealand and more from the USA that the delayed QF9 is off its blocks.

Yes but you are looking at 1 flight on 1 day. If you looked at other specific QF flights you might seen that some run late too.

Also remember QF only has 2 A380 flights per day out of MEL. That would possibly be one reason why it isn't worth having a base here. oh and they used to fly 747 crew down from SYD too (not sure if they had a base at one point in MEL too). My mate is a 747 pilot and he used to fly down from SYD when 747's used to be QF9

 

[mannej]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Yes but you are looking at 1 flight on 1 day. If you looked at other specific QF flights you might seen that some run late too.

Also remember QF only has 2 A380 flights per day out of MEL. That would possibly be one reason why it isn't worth having a base here. oh and they used to fly 747 crew down from SYD too (not sure if they had a base at one point in MEL too). My mate is a 747 pilot and he used to fly down from SYD when 747's used to be QF9

Not forgetting the OP is making a far few assumptions as to why the 9 is late today.
I am sure QF have done their risk assessment and it doesn't make sense to them having a crew base in MEL.
I think things are being over-simplified here...

 

[Melburnian1]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

QF9 was subsequently put back to a 1735 hours departure ex MEL. It finally left at 1754 - 149 minutes late. The QF software forecasts that it will gain time to DXB, arriving at 0120 (115 minutes late) for an 0240 departure local time (100 minutes late) then a predicted 80 minutes late arrival at LHR at 0650 local time on Monday 5 August 2013. In other words, take an hour out pof the timetable just like that!

The difference between QF9 (MEL to DXB/ LHR) and QF93 (MEL to LAX) is that while the latter is normally formed by the 0515 arrival ex LHR and DXB (QF10) and hence has a four hour turnaround, QF9 is normally formed by the arriving QF94 and so has seven hours in which to unload and load the aircraft and undertake any necessary maintenance, so it's inherently more intruiging when QF9 runs late as in theory the aircraft has had a longer period on the ground in MEL.

Many of QF's Asian flights ex MEL and SYD can indeed also run late, but most tend to have shorter turnarounds (for instance, QF130 arriving SYD at 0835 ex PVG the previous night will typically form the 1235 - or on one day a week, the 1035 - QF19 to MNL.

There's one other factor as to where QF historically bases its crews.

QF is Sydney-centric, and has rightly been criticised over the years by many proud Victorians for (in relative terms) failing to capitalise on the economic strengths of Melbourne (and latterly Melbourne's continuing faster than Sydney's population growth) with many of us having to 'change in Sydney' if we want to patronise QF's international flights. This has been one of many reasons why QF's market share of international air passengers continues to fall, although the EK tieup is an attempt to reverse that decline.

 

[jb747]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

QF9 was subsequently put back to a 1735 hours departure ex MEL. It finally left at 1754 - 149 minutes late. The QF software forecasts that it will gain time to DXB, arriving at 0120 (115 minutes late) for an 0240 departure local time (100 minutes late) then a predicted 80 minutes late arrival at LHR at 0650 local time on Monday 5 August 2013. In other words, take an hour out pof the timetable just like that!

The difference between QF9 (MEL to DXB/ LHR) and QF93 (MEL to LAX) is that while the latter is normally formed by the 0515 arrival ex LHR and DXB (QF10) and hence has a four hour turnaround, QF9 is normally formed by the arriving QF94 and so has seven hours in which to unload and load the aircraft and undertake any necessary maintenance, so it's inherently more intruiging when QF9 runs late as in theory the aircraft has had a longer period on the ground in MEL.

Many of QF's Asian flights ex MEL and SYD can indeed also run late, but most tend to have shorter turnarounds (for instance, QF130 arriving SYD at 0835 ex PVG the previous night will typically form the 1235 - or on one day a week, the 1035 - QF19 to MNL.

There's one other factor as to where QF historically bases its crews.

QF is Sydney-centric, and has rightly been criticised over the years by many proud Victorians for (in relative terms) failing to capitalise on the economic strengths of Melbourne (and latterly Melbourne's continuing faster than Sydney's population growth) with many of us having to 'change in Sydney' if we want to patronise QF's international flights. This has been one of many reasons why QF's market share of international air passengers continues to fall, although the EK tieup is an attempt to reverse that decline.

QF has cabin crew bases in Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, Brisbane. It has pilot bases in Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, Brisbane. It just doesn't have every type based everywhere.

You are making a lot of assumptions as to why any given aircraft is late. Crew is pretty much the least likely. Turnaround time also has little to do with it. A delay of the type you mention is almost certainly some form of maintenance issue. I presume you'd rather it be fixed before departure.

 

[Melburnian1]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

The QF computer's predictions proved inaccurate. QF9 finally limped into LHR at 0738 - 128 minutes late and a minimal 19 minute gain on the arguably often slack schedule ex MEL, although missing a booked arrivals slot at both DXB and LHR would not be helpful in terms of avoiding the fuel-guzzling 'go arounds.'

jb747, of course I'd prefer problems to be fixed before departure, but these are relatively modern pieces of transport rollingstock. One would hope that a planned seven hour turnaround would be sufficient in most cases to fix any problems with the aircraft that fall into the category of 'unplanned maintenance'. QF publishes a timetable so travellers have to assume that the times are supplied and advertised on the basis that ordinarily they can be adhered to. QF's advertising boasts of its punctuality. The reality is rather different, with this flight running more than 15 minutes late about half the time.

 

[docjames]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

IME they (all airlines) hardly ever make up large chunks of time on this route.

Further, delay ex-Aus pretty much ends up same delay arr-LHR (unless there's a snafu along the way which costs more time).

 

[jb747]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

The QF computer's predictions proved inaccurate. QF9 finally limped into LHR at 0738 - 128 minutes late and a minimal 19 minute gain on the arguably often slack schedule ex MEL, although missing a booked arrivals slot at both DXB and LHR would not be helpful in terms of avoiding the fuel-guzzling 'go arounds.'

jb747, of course I'd prefer problems to be fixed before departure, but these are relatively modern pieces of transport rollingstock. One would hope that a planned seven hour turnaround would be sufficient in most cases to fix any problems with the aircraft that fall into the category of 'unplanned maintenance. QF publishes a timetable so travellers have to assume that the times are supplied and advertised on the basis that ordinarily they can be adhered to. QF's advertising boasts of its punctuality. The reality is rather different, with this flight running more than 15 minutes late about half the time.'

I can tell that you've had nothing to do with aircraft.....

Yep they're modern all right. So modern that the computers are constantly finding problems. Many of which don't exist, but which have to be investigated anyway. They're also total masters at not talking to each other.

Even if an aircraft arrives with a totally clean slate, the next crew are just as likely to find issues as they power it back up.

Quite honestly it isn't a railway. It will NEVER operate to the time schedules of one, unless you are willing to forget about obeying many of the makers' procedures and MELs (as some do, but I'm pleased that my employer isn't one).

Time can only rarely be made up in flight. ATC control the altitudes we fly at, and the speeds we fly. In the cruise I have perhaps .02 mach to play with (or about 12 knots IAS, 20 knots groundspeed). Most of the time I have sufficient fuel to up the ante by .01, but if ATC hold me even slightly low (as regularly happens), then even that goes out the window, and I'll be about .02 slow, just to preserve the fuel. Note, this is not to save the company any money, but simply to ensure we arrive with the fuel that I mandate. Even if I get the altitudes that I want, I may have to obey the speed set by the aircraft in front. It's a chess game, in which every player has a different set of rules.

 

[Melburnian1]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Yep they're modern all right. So modern that the computers are constantly finding problems. Many of which don't exist, but which have to be investigated anyway. They're also total masters at not talking to each other.

----------------------

This is an issue with modern cars, trains and even road coaches. No doubt the modernity has brought many benefits - by increasing the gross payload and fuel efficiency and hence allowing more of us to fly for fewer dollars in real terms, but it's interesting that the complexity brings its own set of newish challenges.


Those words 'cancel speed restrictions' must be music to pilots' ears!

 

[jb747]

re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Those words 'cancel speed restrictions' must be music to pilots' ears!

No, the best is "cancel holding, track direct...."

 

[Melburnian1]

QF41 delay

QF41 from SYD (normally due out at 1345) for CGK was shown as departing SYD at an amended 1700 hours, but was still at its gate at 1723.

Does anyone know what went wrong? This aircraft is due to form QF23, the 0940 from SYD to BKK on Monday 12 August 2013 so if it doesn't get a wriggle on from its blocks for CGK, the BKK flight has a chance of being late away tomorrow. Of course QF can swap its A330s at the last minute, but most form mid-morning departures, although the Monday MNL QF19 flight doesn't depart until 1235, unlike departures to BKK, HGK and SIN among others that depart in the popular 0900 to 1000 departure 'window' that sees the QF lounges well patronised on most mornings.

As a later update, www.flightaware.com has amended this flight's takeoff time to 1755 AEST (which is why the site's designer's call it 'aware!') but the QF flight status individual page for QF41 is yet to reflect that change; the flight has disappeared from www.flightradar24.com 's display of Sydney Airport's tarmac.

As an 1830 update, QF41 has now been altered to depart at 2100 hours, so it could well be an aircraft substitution. Perhaps there's a TAFFer waiting in the QF lounge for it or another evening flight who can pass on the 'goos' (or the facts).

As at 2115, the computer had shown QF41 as departing at 2115, but that's just been amended to 2130. Let's hope it's just a passenger who has FTB and hence the ground staff are removing a suitcase or three. I'm sure the passengers don't want to have to stay in SYD overnight.

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: QF41 delay

QF41 has just pushed back at 2139 and took off at 2153 AEST.

 

[nlagalle]

Re: QF41 delay

Delays happen, it's part of flying. They don't always run on time and planes can go tech at the last minute. if you worry so much about why some QF flights (remembering there are over 10,000 flights per month) you'll get an ulcer...

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: QF41 delay

QF41 from yesterday pulled in to CGK at 0200 local time this morning, 7 hours and 25 minutes late. It left CGK at 0315, arriving in SYD at 1258, 6 hours and 38 minutes late.

QF changed its mind and subbed another A333 to operate QF23 to BKK; the late QF42 arrival ex CGK then formed the timetabled QF19 to MNL, departing 4 hours and 11 minutes late at 1446 and due there tonight at 2105, 4 hours and 5 minutes behind time. In turn, it will form QF20, which is shown at an amended departure time of 2230, 2 hours and 10 minutes late with no gain expected to SYD, arriving at 0835 tomorrow morning instead of the timetabled arrival of 0625.

In turn, at this stage, QF20 is shown as forming QF23 to BKK on Tuesday 13 August: while the QF computer maintains that it will be off blocks at 0940 (on time), this is pretty unlikely unless the Red Roo does a 'switch-a-roo' and subs another A330 from an earlier arrival.

nlagalle, thank you for your concern about my health, but I recently highlighted late running of a CX flight, so if it's any consolation, I publicise other companies' delays as well.

We may have a TAFFer on tomorrow morning's QF23 who might appreciate the advance warning of a likely longer period in which to enjoy the first champers of the day if that's his or her 'poison.'

 

[nlagalle]

Re: QF41 delay

QF41 from yesterday pulled in to CGK at 0200 local time this morning, 7 hours and 25 minutes late. It left CGK at 0315, arriving in SYD at 1258, 6 hours and 38 minutes late.

QF changed its mind and subbed another A333 to operate QF23 to BKK; the late QF42 arrival ex CGK then formed the timetabled QF19 to MNL, departing 4 hours and 11 minutes late at 1446 and due there tonight at 2105, 4 hours and 5 minutes behind time. In turn, it will form QF20, which is shown at an amended departure time of 2230, 2 hours and 10 minutes late with no gain expected to SYD, arriving at 0835 tomorrow morning instead of the timetabled arrival of 0625.

In turn, at this stage, QF20 is shown as forming QF23 to BKK on Tuesday 13 August: while the QF computer maintains that it will be off blocks at 0940 (on time), this is pretty unlikely unless the Red Roo does a 'switch-a-roo' and subs another A330 from an earlier arrival.

I am sure the folks over at QF fleet movements have it all under control..

nlagalle, thank you for your concern about my health, but I recently highlighted late running of a CX flight, so if it's any consolation, I publicise other companies' delays as well.

We may have a TAFFer on tomorrow morning's QF23 who might appreciate the advance warning of a likely longer period in which to enjoy the first champers of the day if that's his or her 'poison.'

As i said.. flights are delayed for any number of reasons so no point advertising them all. No airline runs to 100% no point worrying about how they will swap aircraft around or make up time.. i am pretty sure they have had a bit more experience with it than you...

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: QF41 delay

nlagalle, if we care about our fellow TAFFers, it's good to let them know how particular airlines are performing. QF International isn't going too well - routes have been cancelled left right and centre (as the home page of TAFF highlights in http://www.australianfrequentflyer....-the-demise-international-qantas-flights.html ), market share is gradually but consistently being lost to other airlines and the fleet is quite old (although that may improve a bit) and the newest planes are going to JQ not QF.

While I appreciate that many who work in the industry may not like delays being publicised, some passengers find it useful, particularly if there's a lounge visit as part of an individual's 'pre flight preparation.'

Many of us over the years have heard staff at airlines either decline to tell passengers why a particular flight is late, or give a reason that is not true. This rankles!

 

[nlagalle]

Re: QF41 delay

nlagalle, if we care about our fellow TAFFers, it's good to let them know how particular airlines are performing. QF International isn't going too well - routes have been cancelled left right and centre (as the home page of TAFF highlights in The Australian Frequent Flyer Online Community - The Demise of International Qantas Flights ), market share is gradually but consistently being lost to other airlines and the fleet is quite old (although that may improve a bit) and the newest planes are going to JQ not QF.

While I appreciate that many who work in the industry may not like delays being publicised, some passengers find it useful, particularly if there's a lounge visit as part of an individual's 'pre flight preparation.'

Many of us over the years have heard staff at airlines either decline to tell passengers why a particular flight is late, or give a reason that is not true. This rankles!

You aren't providing any detailed stats on how they are performing, rather highlighting a select number of flights that provides innacurate reporting. If you really want to see how they are performing the government publicises monthly reports on the subject. It isn't covered up as you may think. It's there to read for all to see. you also cannot say for 100% that a flight may be delayed - unless the airline tells you othewise you have to assume it is and arrive on time. I wouldn't take someones advice here that my flight could be delayed. i might make note of it, but it wouldn't change my plans to get to the airport.

Have you actually thought for a minute that staff may not know the reason when asked? I've been delayed on more flights over the years than some people take in a lifetime, and I've not had staff decline to tell us why. I've never had a captain decline to say why a flight was delayed either.

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: QF41 delay

Bureau of Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Economics publicises punctuality where two or more domestic airlines compete on a route, but none of the reports show month by month punctuality of international sectors into and out of Oz.

I'm not suggesting that passengers delay their departure for an airport on the basis of possible late running unless the airline rings them and advises of a new checkin time. Nonetheless, it can be handy for passengers to know that there's some chance their flight may be late, particularly if they have business appointments or flight, train or coach connections at the other end, or are being met by a friend or family member.

If airline staff don't know the reason for a flight being late, couldn't they ask a nearby colleague or telephone someone who does know? This is good customer service. "I don't know, but I'll try to find out why."

 

[nlagalle]

Re: QF41 delay

Bureau of Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Economics publicises punctuality where two or more domestic airlines compete on a route, but none of the reports show month by month punctuality of international sectors into and out of Oz.

flight stats also shows flights and is more indepth than your observations, including the fact although QF9 is late more often than not, it's EK counterpart isn't performing that much better.

I'm not suggesting that passengers delay their departure for an airport on the basis of possible late running unless the airline rings them and advises of a new checkin time. Nonetheless, it can be handy for passengers to know that there's some chance their flight may be late, particularly if they have business appointments or flight, train or coach connections at the other end, or are being met by a friend or family member.

there is also no need to provide what could be unfounded information. if they are worried check on the airline website. Don't draw up "possibilties" based on a couple of fluights observed.

If airline staff don't know the reason for a flight being late, couldn't they ask a nearby colleague or telephone someone who does know? This is good customer service. "I don't know, but I'll try to find out why."

Actually i'd prefer the staff worrying about the job at hand they need to do rather than run after multiple passenger requests. If they say someone is looking into it, fine, but at the end of the day they still have their own job to perform. Having said that, everytime a flight I've been on has had a delay, I've been told the reason why..