Qantas Delays/Cancellations

[serfty]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

OQJ arrived back into SYD after a month in MNL on Saturday and operated QF1 yesterday.

OQC has been MIA since arriving back into SYD as QF8 on Wednesday 25th.

So, to start the weekend they were two down.

I guess there's the issue, the former was planned and the latter unscheduled.

 

[Kangol]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

I won't be able to answer the compensation question as I don't have it in the bank. We both received 200 status credits and the seats were the Mark1 not quite flat ones that are very easy to adjust. The service was pretty good and 13 hours from Sydney to Los Angeles. There was business and economy and I didn't walk to see if there was premium economy.
The ice age has just started here in Los Angeles with hail stones mixed with rain.
At the urging of Mrscove I bought the two tickets.......

So did you book F to begin with? or did you front up to the airport and buy whatever you could get (is that what you mean by "At the urging of Mrscove I bought the two tickets"?)

200 SC is flexible J..

 

[cove]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Yes I bought 2 First Class Qantas tickets on Amex Ultimate and Qantas would have let me cancel and go to a plan B but being in Sydney with the call after 10pm I had to get to LAX by leaving the next morning. I had promised a run on Qantas as a tester seeing we want to do 4 or 5 runs in a year. An A380 or two being too broken to fly us was not supposed to happen.
I do hope someone has a spanner or two to fix the plane we need to get from LAX to SYD.
It is snowing in Dallas so the option of going backwards to go forwards has very little appeal.

 

[Kangol]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Yes I bought 2 First Class Qantas tickets on Amex Ultimate and Qantas would have let me cancel and go to a plan B but being in Sydney with the call after 10pm I had to get to LAX by leaving the next morning. I had promised a run on Qantas as a tester seeing we want to do 4 or 5 runs in a year. An A380 or two being too broken to fly us was not supposed to happen.
I do hope someone has a spanner or two to fix the plane we need to get from LAX to SYD.
It is snowing in Dallas so the option of going backwards to go forwards has very little appeal.

Oh OK.
Did they give you the option of going via MEL? An 1155 departure would give you plenty of time to connect and get you to LAX at a comparable time.
Please keep us updated on what they offer you (and what you get) as far as compensation, if any.
It probably deserves its own thread given the uniqueness of it (can't recall any anecdotes here in a similar situation).

 

[cove]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

No option of Melbourne was given as I think that plane had a full First Class and would have required reversing points approved upgrades less than 12 hours from take off.
I may not be able to talk about compensation but I did get a verbal offer before midnight.
Most things I say about Qantas are positive and I know they are trying plus my wife was in the room so I was pretty reasonable.

 

[Flyerqf]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

A weather delay leading to cancellation does not mean it must an issue with the aircraft.

Sorry, badly explained. it was delayed due to weather along with a few other flights but then the other flights took off after the weather passed but QF5 was cancelled hours later.

 

[cdinoz]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

On the 28th it was operated by a reconfigured 747, but I noticed the next day it was operated by an old 4 class.

QF12 ex LAX on the 28th was operated by a NON refurbed 747 - VH-OJI. The oldest most worn out bird in the fleet! Sloping lie flats in J - and a couple of F booked pax who were seriously unhappy. The seats are rather uncomfortable. I'd forgotten how much there is a difference between SkyBed I and II.

The crew were brilliant in their apologies to all. I had a call to tell me that the A380 had "gone tech in Sydney prior to departure, resulting in the substitution"... the crew on-board had been told an A380 had gone tech in LAX a day earlier - hence the substitution, all the while the seating plan had changed on the flight at least 24 hours prior to the QF11 flight leaving SYD... hence obviously a planned sub.

Why any right minded route planner would send their oldest war bird on what they bang on about being their most lucrative and premium route is beyond me.

I have made my complaint to the airline, and am now waiting on their response!

 

[dfcatch]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

I have made my views known elsewhere....

But... For Red Roo's benefit:

The decision to send the A380 to HKG on QF127 for 3 days, whilst at the same time letting QF12 be operated by 747s is one of the most stupid decisions known to man.

It take a particularly special kind of stupid to make such a decision and it seems that only QF is competent in making such special-kind-of-stupid decisions.

On one route - it has been deliberately marketed as a "non-380 route operated by a 747".

The other route is QF's most populous, most profitable, flagship A380 route with live First Class bookings to honour.

Your #qantasluxury social media intern is smart enough to work out which route should have the 380 operating it - but yet management is stupid enough to send it to HKG.

News flash - the Chinese folk heading home after CNY would simply fly home the next day, and they'd pay full price too. Or you could schedule an additional aircraft to service a second QF127 on those days, or lease an aircraft.
Or schedule the aircraft swap 11 months out so that you don't have 450 folks x 3 days pissed off in LA all swearing that they'll reconsider using QF as their choice of TPAC airline.

But of course - I'm not smart enough to make fleet and route decisions at QF.

For that role you need an IQ of 15.

Those of us who's IQ is above 55 don't qualify.

For the record - I was on QF16, in the seat I selected and the aircraft I booked. But it's difficult not to observe the pax at checkin, the lounge, and on board that were less than happy. Not to mention the hapless staff who were copping it whilst having to tell what they knew were outright lies. The staff think that the decision making is as stupid as the pax think it was.

 

[jb747]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Without knowing the specifics of the day, there might be a couple of things you haven't considered. Firstly, at any given time, two aircraft (be they 380s or Space Shuttles) are not the same. They will always have different time related items, and depending upon their MEL status, might have quite different capabilities. It's quite possible that an aircraft could have sufficient hours available for a HK return, but not an LA trip. MELs have time limits of a certain number of days, or flying hours.

Secondly...there was a 380 crew in HK to bring the aircraft back. Was there a 747 crew available? No guarantee at all. LA almost always has a few people who can be grabbed.

 

[dfcatch]

General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Without knowing the specifics of the day, there might be a couple of things you haven't considered. Firstly, at any given time, two aircraft (be they 380s or Space Shuttles) are not the same. They will always have different time related items, and depending upon their MEL status, might have quite different capabilities. It's quite possible that an aircraft could have sufficient hours available for a HK return, but not an LA trip. MELs have time limits of a certain number of days, or flying hours.

Secondly...there was a 380 crew in HK to bring the aircraft back. Was there a 747 crew available? No guarantee at all. LA almost always has a few people who can be grabbed.

With respect JB,

The only reason that there were 380 crews in HKG was because QF deliberately replaced the 747 service with a 380 service for end CNY.

They also deliberately replaced the 380 service in LAX with a 747 service.

I accept the possibility that they had perhaps thought that only 1 day may have been lost in LA, but it turned to 3 due to an aircraft issue as per Serfty's post, but it doesn't change the fact that it should NEVER have been pulled from LA in the first place.

It appears to me that the 3 days of aircraft equipment swaps were premeditated.

Otherwise, accepting the "aircraft going tech" excuse theory, why keep sending the 380 back to HKG??

If the grand plan was to use 380s on both sectors but it went awry when an aircraft went tech, then when it went awry, why not pull the 380 from QF127 and send it to LAX instead?? Plenty of 380 crews available in Australia at short notice.

I don't buy the excuse at all.

It appears to me, and based on what I've heard from staff, that it was a yield management decision. That's the basis of my criticism.

Even if it was meant to be one day (and elongated by an aircraft fault), doesn't change the basis of the criticism.

Then again, this is same airline that spent untold $$$$ on a marketing campaign promoting lie-flat seating on all MEL/SYD-PER flights only to place ex-JQ birds on the route.

 

[mannej]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Then again, this is same airline that spent untold $$$$ on a marketing campaign promoting lie-flat seating on all MEL/SYD-PER flights only to place ex-JQ birds on the route.

What marketing? The one that says the new suites that will be progressively introduced?


Whilst I understand your cynicism, JB is much better placed to offer comment don't you think?

 

[dfcatch]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

1/ the marketing that was splashed across in full page ads a couple years ago.

(Not referring to recently re: new suites)

2/ JB is eminently qualified to speak about reasons why a sub might not occur and related issues and it's absolutely possible that some of the issues he mentioned "may" be relevant.

3/ JB was speaking generally and specified that he wasn't talking about specific flights/dates.

4/ The allocation of the 380 to HKG and removal from LAX wasn't accidental. It was a deliberate YM decision.

5/ It "may" be possible that "3 days of LAX being subbed with a 747" was unplanned - but either way by criticism of the priority given to the non-380 route (HKG) over the 380 route (LAX) stands.

6/ If JB or RR wish to provide a response specific to those three days vis-a-vis the allocation of the 380 to those ports - I'm all ears (but wouldn't expect JB to compromise his position even if does have access to such information).

 

[QFflyermelbourne]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

And if it was a yield management decision what is wrong with that? They are a public company with an obligation to maximise profits. No product is ever guaranteed at any point on any route. This time of year can be pretty quiet on the trans pacific routes so if route planners felt they could sell out 380's to Hong Kong that would be operating half empty to LA then good on them in my book. Of course planning ahead to ensure that F wasn't sold for instance would be a necessity but I don't see any issue otherwise.

Having said that from what has been mentioned here it definitely sounds like there was some element of last minute sub involved in this case...

Are you also suggesting that just because the LA route has more prestige associated with it that QF should sub equipment onto sold out HK flights, bumping people from those flights "to fly the next day" just so some people on the LA bird end up with a slightly more comfortable seat? What breathtaking selfishness...

 

[dfcatch]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

And if it was a yield management decision what is wrong with that? They are a public company with an obligation to maximise profits. No product is ever guaranteed at any point on any route. This time of year can be pretty quiet on the trans pacific routes so if route planners felt they could sell out 380's to Hong Kong that would be operating half empty to LA then good on them in my book. Of course planning ahead to ensure that F wasn't sold for instance would be a necessity but I don't see any issue otherwise.

Having said that from what has been mentioned here it definitely sounds like there was some element of last minute sub involved in this case...

Are you also suggesting that just because the LA route has more prestige associated with it that QF should sub equipment onto sold out HK flights, bumping people from those flights "to fly the next day" just so some people on the LA bird end up with a slightly more comfortable seat? What breathtaking selfishness...

No I'm suggesting that it's piss poor marketing to sub out your premium aircraft from your flagship route when you advertise the provision of that flagship aircraft on that flagship route and you sell F on that route and on those flights. (And people deliberate choose that flight knowing that it's a 380).

The HKG flights are marketed as 747 flights. If they were full, then people would simply book onto the next available.

I understand the yield management calculation. If I was a yield analyst - and I thought I could re-accommodate LAX pax on alternative LAX-Oz services and at the same time oversell HKG by 108 pax per flight and achieve overall increased load factors - I would absolutely propose the same thing to my managers.

I'm suggesting that short-sighted YM decisions destroy the entire marketing and brand effort that's been employed on the flagship route.

QF made an active decision to downgrade the HKG route to a 747 and did so with great fanfare.

As far as your last line is concerned - I'm not suggesting people be bumped at all. I'm suggesting that the advertised product gets operated on the advertised routes so that people get what they expected to get when they booked it.

Nice product upgrade for the HKG pax - but a PR disaster for QF at LAX.

I have no doubt that Customer Care is currently dealing with that nightmare.

I feel the most sorry for the poor QF staff on the ground that had to cop it.

And as I've said previously - I don't condone for an instant the obnoxious behaviour and rudeness demonstrated by some pax towards ground staff - it's not their fault, they can't fix it, and your complaint is better directed to QF directly.

Hence my comments here, after witnessing the PR disaster with my own eyes, have been made with the benefit of a couple days reflection.

Is there any of this that is still not clear for you?

 

[VHOEJ]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

They will only use OJI as a last resort - if there was any other 747 available (the refurbished ones), they would have used it. Sadly there aren't spare 747s that you can 'pick and choose' from.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

Yes I bought 2 First Class Qantas tickets on Amex Ultimate .......................... I had promised a run on Qantas as a tester seeing we want to do 4 or 5 runs in a year.

Ah huh - and your views on the 'tester' flight now?

 

[Kangol]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

No option of Melbourne was given as I think that plane had a full First Class and would have required reversing points approved upgrades less than 12 hours from take off.
I may not be able to talk about compensation but I did get a verbal offer before midnight.
Most things I say about Qantas are positive and I know they are trying plus my wife was in the room so I was pretty reasonable.

What was the verbal offer?
If you don't want to tell us, is it because you signed a non-disclosure agreement?
Surely any such agreement would not include revealing that an actual non-disclosure agreement was put in place?

 

[ABC1]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

OQJ arrived back into SYD after a month in MNL on Saturday and operated QF1 yesterday.

OQC has been MIA since arriving back into SYD as QF8 on Wednesday 25th.

So, to start the weekend they were two down.

I guess there's the issue, the former was planned and the latter unscheduled.

An A380 was hit by a catering truck... The 747's had to be used to LAX because of that. So they were down 2 because of that and one in Manilla, and one being used to HKG after Chinese New Year holidays.

 

[jb747]

Re: General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

HKG is still regularly scheduled with an A380, as it was on this occasion. The aircraft wasn't subbed on to HK, but it was already scheduled that way, months in advance. Looking ahead, there are some weeks coming up where it's 380 almost every day.

Something else to consider....the HK return trip takes about 24 hours, whereas the LA return takes around 40. That's a vast difference when trying to build an operating plan, when short of an aircraft or two.

 

[mannej]

General Qantas Delays/Cancellations/etc. Discussion

1/ the marketing that was splashed across in full page ads a couple years ago.

(Not referring to recently re: new suites)

In your cynicism, your memory fails you. QF never marketed the Skybeds on all PER-MEL/SYD and vv. flights a couple of years ago.

You are getting the marketing of the QF581/2 rotation (and random other flights) with the 330's on all PER-MEL/SYD and vv. runs.

Again, whilst I understand the cynicism, you are suiting the argument without the full set of facts in front of you and using an argument that is completely wrong (the marketing one).