Qantas deleted my frequent flyer points without warning!

[mannej]

I am not suggesting it is the airlines responsibility, but this is much the same as the scenario where flyers miss flights due to gate changes not on flight information boards or delays that they were not informed of, it is of course the flyers responsibility, but a little bit of common courtesy from the airline can go a long way.

By the terms, QF do have to notify the member in the lead up, so how much more do you have to put it on a spoon?

As such it's nothing like the wrong information on the flight information boards at the airport.

 

[Moody]

And on a side note ..... why do points expire? And don't bother pointing to T&C's like a good corporate sycophant - I want to know the logic behind the removal of an earned benefit.

It is along the same lines as gift vouchers. Companies love them because they take the non-expiring cash off you and in return hand you a piece of paper that self-destructs in 12 months or even less. There are moves afoot to legislate against this sort of theft, and they can't come soon enough.

And back to Qantas - since they are devaluing points on a yearly basis it seems churlish to have the double-whammy of expiry dates as well. Discuss.

 

[lovestotravel]

I am not suggesting it is the airlines responsibility, but this is much the same as the scenario where flyers miss flights due to gate changes not on flight information boards or delays that they were not informed of, it is of course the flyers responsibility, but a little bit of common courtesy from the airline can go a long way.

Nope nothing like a gate change or a delay to a flight!

 

[drewbles]

And on a side note ..... why do points expire? And don't bother pointing to T&C's like a good corporate sycophant - I want to know the logic behind the removal of an earned benefit.

It is along the same lines as gift vouchers. Companies love them because they take the non-expiring cash off you and in return hand you a piece of paper that self-destructs in 12 months or even less. There are moves afoot to legislate against this sort of theft, and they can't come soon enough.

And back to Qantas - since they are devaluing points on a yearly basis it seems churlish to have the double-whammy of expiry dates as well. Discuss.

You have just answered your own question!

Points and gift cards a liability. You may not see the value in a point, but when QF allocate you a FF point, they put a price on it. You pay for it in your ticket (hence why LCC's don't typically have a FF program, and JQ charge you to earn points).

If you build a bank of points, you're building a bank of currency. It's in QF's interest to expire them so they don't have to redeem them.

Every point they issue is an expressed financial liability. If you ran a business, wouldn't you want to not have liabilities in the millions of dollars around?

By setting an 18 month expiry, it's encouraging people to build up a bank, but at the same time, they're earning money from non-QF direct earn points (eg via CC companies, restaurants and the like). That's cash in their pockets that someone else is paying to them rather than you.

Pre-paid mobile phone companies are the same. Pre-paid Tollways such as Citylink. Any business that takes your cash in return for a service you're going to use but have not yet used, is carrying a cash liability on their balance sheet. Expired balances of customers (or breakage) is something companies love!

 

[lovestotravel]

It is along the same lines as gift vouchers. Companies love them because they take the non-expiring cash off you and in return hand you a piece of paper that self-destructs in 12 months or even less. There are moves afoot to legislate against this sort of theft, and they can't come soon enough.

Oh yay more legislation to protect the stupids.... Just what we need

 

[Jack_OC]

And on a side note ..... why do points expire? And don't bother pointing to T&C's like a good corporate sycophant - I want to know the logic behind the removal of an earned benefit.

It is along the same lines as gift vouchers. Companies love them because they take the non-expiring cash off you and in return hand you a piece of paper that self-destructs in 12 months or even less. There are moves afoot to legislate against this sort of theft, and they can't come soon enough.

And back to Qantas - since they are devaluing points on a yearly basis it seems churlish to have the double-whammy of expiry dates as well. Discuss.

I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable for points to expire, and as it happens, QF is as generous as it gets on that front. As mentioned by many people above, all you have to do is either spend some points or earn some points, once every 18 months. And since they allow you to earn points by doing things that almost all people do all the time, such as buying groceries or using a credit card, it really is very easy to prevent your QF points from ever expiring. In many other FF programmes your points expire 3 years after you earn them, no matter what you do.

The only thing I would say is – it would be a nice touch if Qantas allowed a get out of jail card along the following lines: phone up within 2 weeks of the points expiring, and book and fly on a return Qantas flight for travel within the next 2 weeks, and you get your points back. That would seem to be win-win.

 

[lovestotravel]

Indeed, Qantas is very good with the points front, as is Virgin

Some other highly respected airlines (SQ) the points expire after XX months.. Earning more points doesn't help either as the points expire XX months from earning

Virgin/Qantas as long as you earn ANY points in XX months NONE of your points expire

 

[drewbles]

I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable for points to expire, and as it happens, QF is as generous as it gets on that front. As mentioned by many people above, all you have to do is either spend some points or earn some points, once every 18 months. And since they allow you to earn points by doing things that almost all people do all the time, such as buying groceries or using a credit card, it really is very easy to prevent your QF points from ever expiring. In many other FF programmes your points expire 3 years after you earn them, no matter what you do.

The only thing I would say is – it would be a nice touch if Qantas allowed a get out of jail card along the following lines: phone up within 2 weeks of the points expiring, and book and fly on a return Qantas flight for travel within the next 2 weeks, and you get your points back. That would seem to be win-win.

Or along the lines of AA and Amex. Pay to re-activate. It's a penalty for people who don't read the T&C's. It still allows them to retain their points, whilst paying the provider for their oversight.

 

[oz_mark]

And on a side note ..... why do points expire? And don't bother pointing to T&C's like a good corporate sycophant - I want to know the logic behind the removal of an earned benefit.

I'll take a stab and suggest that since it is a feature of so many programs, that the answer lies in the financial management of the program. In particular, given that the points sit around as a liablity, then there will be some sort of provisioning in the accounts for that liability. Over provision, and you are tieing up capital, under provision and you take a hit in the future somewhere.

The question is probably not why they expire, but what the appropriate expiration policy (timeframes, communication etc) should be....

 

[Fruitcake]

I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable for points to expire, and as it happens, QF is as generous as it gets on that front.

Velocity points expire after an account is inactive for 36 months, and family transfers count as "account activity". Velocity also says they will provide a written notice of 30 days until expiry. QF only promises a written warning if you receive paper statements, their expiry period is half as long and transfers don't count toward activity.

So I'm not sure QF is "as generous as it gets" even within Australia, let alone globally.

 

[elbarto]

I'll take a stab and suggest that since it is a feature of so many programs, that the answer lies in the financial management of the program. In particular, given that the points sit around as a liablity, then there will be some sort of provisioning in the accounts for that liability. Over provision, and you are tieing up capital, under provision and you take a hit in the future somewhere.

The question is probably not why they expire, but what the appropriate expiration policy (timeframes, communication etc) should be....

The policy is probably formulated by the interpretation of some accounting standard.

 

[GoldCanyon340]

It is along the same lines as gift vouchers. Companies love them because they take the non-expiring cash off you and in return hand you a piece of paper that self-destructs in 12 months or even less. There are moves afoot to legislate against this sort of theft, and they can't come soon enough.

I'd love to know what these afoot moves are because it is simply and utterly not theft. If you buy a voucher that has a 12-month expiry then the description is clearly written on the box. Same with FF points. You are buying a product with a lifespan. It's not corporate greed and it isn't capitalism gone haywire. It's a transaction in which nobody is forced to participate.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Velocity points expire after an account is inactive for 36 months, and family transfers count as "account activity". Velocity also says they will provide a written notice of 30 days until expiry. QF only promises a written warning if you receive paper statements, their expiry period is half as long and transfers don't count toward activity.

So I'm not sure QF is "as generous as it gets" even within Australia, let alone globally.

well considering for someone in australia one $31 purchase at woolworths every 18 months (and few people would go 18 months without doing this I would think) makes the points never expire.... well, how much more generous should they be?

 

[amaroo]

It's like buying something from Woolies that has a use by date.....if you don't consume within the declared timeframe - it's off !

Doesn't matter if it's a packet of taco mix or a slab of eye fillet or a gift card or a FF scheme or fuel vouchers.......use it - or lose it.

 

[Fruitcake]

well, how much more generous should they be?

Personally I think the QF expiry time and procedures as it sits at the moment is fine. I moved away from QFF earning when they mandated direct sweep credit cards but I keep ~100k sitting there for a rainy day and, as you suggest, I keep that active by earning a few hundred points per year at Woolies.

"As generous as it gets" and "sufficiently generous" are two different things.

 

[mannej]

Velocity points expire after an account is inactive for 36 months, and family transfers count as "account activity". Velocity also says they will provide a written notice of 30 days until expiry. QF only promises a written warning if you receive paper statements.

So I'm not sure QF is "as generous as it gets" even within Australia, let alone globally.

Their terms state notice is provided for all members in one form or other, which is more than what SQ provided before my account expired

 

[GoldCanyon340]

It's like buying something from Woolies that has a use by date.....if you don't consume within the declared timeframe - it's off !

Doesn't matter if it's a packet of taco mix or a slab of eye fillet or a gift card or a FF scheme or fuel vouchers.......use it - or lose it.

If I purchase a ticket for a day's play at a Test match then that ticket expires once the last ball of the day is bowled, even though that is not explicitly stated on the ticket. I wouldn't expect to show up at the MCG at 6.01pm and demand the players come back for another 90 overs.

 

[Jack_OC]

Velocity points expire after an account is inactive for 36 months, and family transfers count as "account activity". Velocity also says they will provide a written notice of 30 days until expiry. QF only promises a written warning if you receive paper statements.

So I'm not sure QF is "as generous as it gets" even within Australia, let alone globally.

I think you're splitting hairs there to be honest. Yes Virgin is also very good on this front, and I wasn't trying to say Qantas is better than Virgin (it was in fact specifically Virgin I had in mind when saying "as generous as it gets", rather than "the most generous there is"). I know Virgin has the 36 month limit and family pooling in its favour, but QFF has earning by the Everyday Rewards card, which is open to everyone for no fee, and gives essentially everyone the ability to easily earn at least a few points. So actually you could argue that it's easier to keep you QFF points than Velocity. Overall I'd put the two of them on a par, but the point I was trying to make is that the QFF rules are much better than the rules of most programmes.

I know for a fact that miles with Singapore, Malaysia, Etihad, Air France/KLM and Emirates expire a set amount of time after you earn them, no matter what you do. I think that's the norm globally, but if there is a programme with no such rules, I'd be interested to know.

 

[Fruitcake]

I think you're splitting hairs there to be honest.

Guilty as charged . Just that I can't resist the lure of a statement that looks like an absolute.

...but if there is a programme with no such rules, I'd be interested to know.

Delta SkyMiles don't expire (Delta Eliminates SkyMiles Expiration - Feb 15, 2011). That's the only one I'm aware of, there could be more.

 

[ybuser]

I think they need to restore the points as I have not received an email. like other posters said, other airlines clearly state the expiry date on the account page, not the date of last activity like Qantas, then one has to go and calculate and date back and so on, wouldn't it just be easier and much more user-friendly to post the actual expiry date!!!??? It is not a big deal and I am not an idiot, but their system doesn't make sense to me. Furthermore, I don't live in Australia, I reside in the US so I can't just go to Woolworth and buy groceries. The last time I needed an eligible activity to earn points, I made a purchase from their online travel store. In my opinion it is clear that Qantas is keeping account expiry dates hidden, and then ooops, you didn't pay attention and you lose your points. I am so fed up, wrote so many emails but I will keep writing until I get my points back.