Qantas deleted my frequent flyer points without warning!

[SeatBackForward]

Sure it didnt say this?

Some simple ways to keep your Account active before 30 June 2013

• Book and fly with Virgin Australia
  
• Redeem Points for a flight
  
• Redeem Points for a Virgin Australia Gift Voucher
  
• Redeem Points for Gift Cards and more
  
• Shop online with Westfield Online
  
• Shop online at onsport.com.au
• Transfer them to Uncle Markis10 :mrgreen:

OH..I see what you did there, sneaky.

I'm not entirely sure what to do with those points, might need a new backpack for work.

 

[drron]

I still have my QFF account but the Woollies shopping goes on mrsdrron's EDR card.All OW flights of mine are credited to Aadvantage.
Just the occasional JASA or JQ with bundle flight.These things are not regular so every November I give mrsdrron a present of QFF points.
Not hard at all.

 

[simongr]

boygr has about 10K points now from EDR usage (really wish I hadn't lost the card for an extended period) and I am happy to leave them in there. My travel patterns [-]might[/-] will change in the next few months so I might be reflecting on that decision.

 

[Downwind]

What? Besides the fact that many here are extremely well practised at earning points? That many know about 43 different ways to earn points and look for new earning opportunities everyday. Exactly how hard is it to spend $31 at woolworths once every 18 months?

The point I was trying to make is that we are not the OP and cannot speak on their behalf as to how easy it may or may not be for THEM to earn points. Im glad you have your points earning sorted, but your circumstances do not necessarily apply to the OP.

To use myself as an example, I dont use every single element of the program to its full advantage. Why? Because I dont like Optus. I think their network is garbage. I have 3 Coles stores within a 10 minute walk, and the nearest Safeway/Woolworths is a 10 minute drive. Therefore, I dont have an everyday rewards card. My Credit Cards are those that best suit my overall needs and not ones that earn me the most points.
I might be something of an anathema on this forum where my life doesnt revolve around a FF program and the ways in which I can maximise every last drop of value from it, because in my eyes, nothing in life is free. I look for the overall best value and rarely does that involve the "stuff" that QF spruiks. Thats just ME. Your and im sure everyone else's circumstances are different and you're clearly entitled to do as you see fit.

The OP and another poster clearly made a mistake or an oversight in not checking the T&C's. Should they be punished to the tune of 400k FF points. I dont think so. Especially when QF selectively disregard them when it suits them. Whats good for the goose must also be good for the gander im afraid!

 

[medhead]

The point I was trying to make is that we are not the OP and cannot speak on their behalf as to how easy it may or may not be for THEM to earn points. Im glad you have your points earning sorted, but your circumstances do not necessarily apply to the OP.

I understood your point. Perhaps I didn't explain my point very well. Many people on AFF are full aware of the multitude ways to earn QFF points to suit all circumstances. Therefore, my contention is that there will be many people on AFF who are experts on the ease of earning points in all circumstances.

Eg Your dislike of Optus is not unique. I also dislike them, and have no idea how to earn a point with them. But I do manage to earn points using one or more of the vast array of other points earning opportunities.

 

[Jack_OC]

I have 3 Coles stores within a 10 minute walk, and the nearest Safeway/Woolworths is a 10 minute drive.

10 mins drive? So it would be very easy (and free) for you to get an EDR card, and use it just occasionally. The same is true for the vast majority of people in Oz. Of course everyone is free to choose not to avail of this opportunity, or any of the numerous other QFF points earning opportunities, but people who make that choice are IMHO unlikely to get much sympathy if their points expire as a result.

The OP and another poster clearly made a mistake or an oversight in not checking the T&C's. Should they be punished to the tune of 400k FF points. I dont think so.

Actually both of these members appear to have been aware of the way things work, with expiry after 18 months of no activity, so it has nothing to do with them not checking the T&Cs.

It was the other poster that said he lost 400k points, and he openly admits that he received and read the e-mail from Qantas warning him that his points were going to expire, and explaining what he needs to do to prevent that happening. What more do you want Qantas to have done in that case?

The OP in this thread, as far as I can see, has not divulged how many points he lost, despite being asked. So we really don't know to what extent he has been "punished". What we do know is that he previously found himself in the same situation, but avoided losing his points on that occasion by making a purchase from the rewards store. So again, it's clear he understood how the programme works, his issue seems to be that he did not know when the 18 months were up this time round. He alleges that Qantas try to keep that information hidden, but as previously pointed out, that is not the case. All you have to do is check your activity statement and you will see your last activity date appears in bold at the top of the page. It is unfortunate if he didn't receive an e-mail reminder in addition to that, but obviously we don't know if he has kept his details up to date with QFF etc. In any case, trying to keep points active in an FF program in which you earn no points ever, and which is based in a foreign country, is likely to require some effort. I've certainly lost points in similar circumstances, and have no complaints about it.

 

[kellied]

I feel your pain.
I just lost >110,000 points due to inactivity also.

I joined the program when it first started (i guess 15-20 years ago).
The points never used to expire so I just didn't know. I realise the T&C must have been updated so it's technically my fault (they never used to expire) but i had never received any correspondence or checked for any change in T&C....... but I called them anyway to ask about the possibility of getting them back as I had been a loyal customer for +15years they were all earned with flights not credit cards) I needed to book multiple tickets in the next week or so for my whole family to Europe. (I now have to fly to europe every year with my whole family) - I might have had enough points to cover 1 ticket, but I'd still purchase the other tickets with them and they would probably keep me as a loyal and grateful customer.
They said their was NO CHANCE i'd ever get my points back ........ and I'm not keen to give them any further business going forward now.
Interestingly It took ages to get any kind of response or service via e-mail or phone...... I got an IMMEDIATE response when i voiced my frustration via twitter!
I also got an immediate contact from Cathy Pacific and a personal message hoping that I would consider them for my future travels.

Qantas via their T&C are within their rights to wipe my points, however since I was not asking for something I had not actually earned or paid for i find it pretty disappointing. International legs out of Aus is such a competitive area for them I find it interesting they were prepared to lose immediate business and ongoing business over it. I do think that was a pretty ****ty way to reward 15+ years of loyalty regardless of T&C.

Interesting way to look after the customers you already have (had)

 

[Mwenenzi]

Welcome to the forum

I feel your pain.
I just lost >110,000 points due to inactivity also.

I joined the program when it first started (i guess 15-20 years ago).
The points never used to expire so I just didn't know. I realise the T&C must have been updated so it's technically my fault (they never used to expire) but i had never received any correspondence or checked for any change in T&C..

QF send written or email activity statements. Expiry is clearly shown if I recall correctly.

If you had been a loyal flying customer you would have activity in 18 months

Many programs have expiry rules:- often 18 months. Some have use them or loose the miles/points every 3 years.
Very easy to keep a QF freq flyer account alive by spending $31 Woolworths Australia

 

[mannej]

QF didn't hide the fact that they were changing the T&C's regarding the expiry clause.

This occurred about 2 years ago from memory. I am sure if you did a search on here, you will find the topic on here about it, as I am fairly sure it was discussed at lengths when the change occurred.

You haven't flown QF for atleast 18 months, I would find it hard pressed to persuade QF with that argument regarding your loyalty...

 

[dajop]

QF send written or email activity statements. Expiry is clearly shown if I recall correctly.

Actually they don't (or didn't) to everyone. I didn't get any email activity statements once I changed my registered address in Singapore, strangely when I changed my registered address back to Australia I got a monthly activity statement again. There must be (or have been if this has now changed) some logic set up about not mailing O/S activity statements, before they were all converted to email. Not that this is an excuse for missing expiry dates.

 

[Jack_OC]

QF didn't hide the fact that they were changing the T&C's regarding the expiry clause.

This occurred about 2 years ago from memory. I am sure if you did a search on here, you will find the topic on here about it, as I am fairly sure it was discussed at lengths when the change occurred.

You haven't flown QF for atleast 18 months, I would find it hard pressed to persuade QF with that argument regarding your loyalty...

The change to expiry after 18 months actually took effect on 30 June 2010 (over 3 years ago), and it was announced in December 2009 (almost 4 years ago). It was well publicised by QF at the time.

Frequent Flyer - About the Program - Program News - Points Expiry

Also, it's worth noting that was just when the expiry date was shortened to 18 months. Prior to 30 June 2010, points still expired with lack of activity, it just took 3 years. It's a long time since QFF points did not expire at all.

 

[mannej]

Geez time flies! I knew it was a while ago.

With all due respect, 110k worth of points won't really help in reducing the cost when flying to Europe. Economy awards can be quite poor value when you factor in the taxes.

 

[jamesatfish]

You haven't flown QF for atleast 18 months, I would find it hard pressed to persuade QF with that argument regarding your loyalty...

It's important to remember that loyalty from the consumer's point of view is a bit like monogamy - you might only get some once a year but you're still being loyal to one partner.

I have customers in one of my businesses who make repeat purchases once every decade or so. They're loyal not because of the frequency of the purchases but because they don't consider making those purchases from any other supplier.

True, those customers are not necessarily the ones who can change your bottom line with their purchasing decisions, but we still prefer them (and treat them accordingly) compared to the more regular buyer who shops around each and every purchase.

 

[Jack_OC]

Actually they don't (or didn't) to everyone. I didn't get any email activity statements once I changed my registered address in Singapore, strangely when I changed my registered address back to Australia I got a monthly activity statement again. There must be (or have been if this has now changed) some logic set up about not mailing O/S activity statements, before they were all converted to email. Not that this is an excuse for missing expiry dates.

Yeah I'm in Oz and don't receive statements by either email or post either. I don't recall ever getting them TBH, other than by logging in online. I think this is the one point on which QF could be criticised.

It's obviously very frustrating for those who lose points,but the fact is, if you are actually a frequent flyer with QF, this situation won't arise. And as discussed previously, even if you're not a frequent flyer, it's easy to keep your points active by earning through partners.

 

[Jack_OC]

It's important to remember that loyalty from the consumer's point of view is a bit like monogamy - you might only get some once a year but you're still being loyal to one partner.

Good point, but it's not called Qantas Loyal Flyer, it's Qantas Frequent Flyer! There are over 8 million QFF members, many of whom have been members for a long time, so that alone is not going to get someone special treatment.

True, those customers are not necessarily the ones who can change your bottom line with their purchasing decisions, but we still prefer them (and treat them accordingly) compared to the more regular buyer who shops around each and every purchase.

Really? If it was me, I'd prefer to get a small percentage of the business from someone who spends tens of thousands a year, rather than 100% of the business from someone who spends very little. I think that's the way most FF programs are geared.

 

[jamesatfish]

Really? If it was me, I'd prefer to get a small percentage of the business from someone who spends tens of thousands a year, rather than 100% of the business from someone who spends very little. I think that's the way most FF programs are geared.

It's just that I'd sooner bend the rules for a customer "because when we buy xx_ we always buy from you" rather than "because I buy xx_ all the time and if you don't help me out I'll buy from someone else". That's not to say we wouldn't help out the more-frequent-less-loyal customers in that case, but I know which request I'd prefer.

In the case of kellied's post today, we're clearly not dealing with a customer who flies Qantas frequently as otherwise we wouldn't be talking about lost points. The question to me would be - are they an infrequent flyer with QF because they've put all their spend over to another airline, or because they fly QF exclusively but just don't fly all that often? QF obviously doesn't see these as different situations, but I can see the side of a customer who fits into that second category and feels they should be given consideration by QF as a result.

 

[medhead]

Apparently QFF started in 1987, almost 30 years ago.

Really? If it was me, I'd prefer to get a small percentage of the business from someone who spends tens of thousands a year, rather than 100% of the business from someone who spends very little. I think that's the way most FF programs are geared.

I'd rather have a customer who just pays whatever price I ask every time they fly, without checking any other prices. That way I could set almost any price I want.

 

[Mwenenzi]

off topic

Good point, but it's not called Qantas Loyal Flyer, it's Qantas Frequent Flyer! There are over 8 million QFF members, many of whom have been members for a long time, so that alone is not going to get someone special treatment.

I beg to differ. Member numbers have been published at times by QF. Many are new from https://www.everydayrewards.com.au
Q freq flyer loyality programe, like many other similar programs, is becoming a frequent spender loyality programe,. And therefore much easier to keep a QFF account alive

 

[Happy Trails]

Qantas have another multi-million points give-away promo running at the moment.
Let's face it, they have to get those points from somewhere.

 

[Jack_OC]

It's just that I'd sooner bend the rules for a customer "because when we buy xx_ we always buy from you" rather than "because I buy xx_ all the time and if you don't help me out I'll buy from someone else".

I hear what you're saying, and this is a classic example of the personal touch you get from a small business. Sadly, it's just not reasonable to expect that from a massive company like Qantas.

The question to me would be - are they an infrequent flyer with QF because they've put all their spend over to another airline, or because they fly QF exclusively but just don't fly all that often? QF obviously doesn't see these as different situations,

I suspect QF don't care either way, as what they're interested in is how much money they make from us, not whether there is some kind of emotional attachment. In any case, they have no way of knowing which category any of us fit into. All they know is how much money we direct their way.

I'd rather have a customer who just pays whatever price I ask every time they fly, without checking any other prices. That way I could set almost any price I want.

That wouldn't help you much if the customer only flies somewhere once every couple of years! Or once a decade per the example jamesatfish gave!