Qantas / Emirates tie up (Partnership inc. Codeshare, Status)

[Kaldemir]

My advice to people is just don't be stupid, don't drink excessive amounts of alcohol especially out in public, don't walk around in a bali bintang bitter singlet (I shudder when I see people wearing these even here, no offence to anyone on here if you do, I just don't like them), where normal respectable clothes, again western women can still wear skirts and tshirts etc. in most places, just don't be silly ie don't wear a mini-skirt.

Also don't do anything stupid such as carrying a bottle of water and drinking it or wearing anything light when it's 40 degrees, holding your partners hand/ showing affection etc.. Really stupid/ silly things I must say..

I agree that it is likely the only viable solution for an Australian airline to carry passengers to an overseas hub and link into another airline's network to provide one stop connections to European destinations. And based on the news Emirates wasn't Qantas' first choice, so can't criticise that decision either. However cancelling codeshares with British Airways, Lufthansa and Air France and leaving DXB and Emirates as the only QF option will push a fair number of passengers to other airlines.

 

[awilcockson]

nonews have been a bit slow picking this one up

Qantas deal 'could land more Aussies in trouble' | News.com.au

 

[anat0l]

However cancelling codeshares with British Airways, Lufthansa and Air France and leaving DXB and Emirates as the only QF option will push a fair number of passengers to other airlines.

I would've thought that even with the JSA abolished, QF will maintain at least some BA codeshares, e.g. BKK/LHR, HKG/LHR. BA also still have their own service to SYD travelling via SIN; no reason why post-JSA that you couldn't book these (even as BA marketed sectors), which means you can still link up to these in SIN via other centres (not just SYD).

Also don't do anything stupid such as carrying a bottle of water and drinking it or wearing anything light when it's 40 degrees, holding your partners hand/ showing affection etc.. Really stupid/ silly things I must say..

It's their society and culture - you are in it, show some respect! Same thing holds if you go to any other transit point - Singapore, Bangkok, Hong Kong.... heck, even Abu Dhabi, Guangzhou....


I unfortunately expect our politicians to be immoral, unethical and generally culturally insensitive, particularly when they are left wing, as exemplified quite nicely by the bigoted Senator Kroger - thanks Danger for the quote - (and the Liberal member who was recently removed due to their references to bestiality). For what I imagine to be - by and large - a group of seasoned travellers (particularly with international travel experience), I'm surprised (and disgusted) to see pockets of such behaviour on this forum.

 

[Kangol]

Also don't do anything stupid such as carrying a bottle of water and drinking it

Drinking a bottle of water in public is considered stupid?

 

[Berlin]

you are in it, show some respect!

"Respect" for their homophobic medieval laws that can put me into prison for holding hands with my loved one when I want nothing else but traveling between Europe and Australia? That is "respect" at the very wrong place in my eyes.

And, I've mentioned it before, in practice Singapore is much more open-minded that most of the middle East- there is a HUGE difference.

 

[JessicaTam]

“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness...” Mark Twain.

It seems some have resisted the benefits that travel can bring. If you don't like it, don't leave the airport.

Now can we get back to the topic at hand i.e. the practicalities of a code share with a non-One World partner airline?

How long is it likely to take for Australian regulatory approval?

 

[anat0l]

"Respect" for their homophobic medieval laws that can put me into prison for holding hands with my loved one when I want nothing else but traveling between Europe and Australia? That is "respect" at the very wrong place in my eyes.

So don't do it! Especially if you are in transit, you only have to wait about one hour or so before it's all OK again. No one is trying to deprive you of your right to love. Just help yourself. No one is asking you to convert your religion as a prerequisite of passing through the UAE.

Why are people actively attacking Qantas over these kinds of issues when Emirates has flown a good deal of Australians internationally for such a long time, with stops in Dubai? Or, for that matter, why don't we cut up Etihad and, by extension, Virgin Australia - after all, the Abu Dhabi Emirate is more conservative? IIRC EK and EY sponsor an AFL team and a stadium respectively - why aren't people flat out protesting such an association if they had reservations about where they came from? (Yes, I'm aware that said AFL team is not exactly liked by many people.....)

Why do I feel I've rolled out this argument n times already (where n > 3 or so)?

Now can we get back to the topic at hand i.e. the practicalities of a code share with a non-One World partner airline?

How long is it likely to take for Australian regulatory approval?

I'd like to think it will be approved fairly quickly in time for April commencement. I see the risk of QF delaying the logistical part of the agreement greater than the risk of the ACCC holding up or declining the anti-trust immunity agreement.

Of course, if more bigoted Liberal politicians have their voices heard and pushed, I guess we could see this agreement delayed or evaporated. :evil:


Last time I checked, I can't remember many airlines actually taking any kind of responsibility for the citizens of their country (as a minimum) knowing about where they were going and the laws there. (There is generic information - similar to that of a travel guide - but no big flashing lights or anything, for example, whilst you are booking a flight).

 

[Berlin]

So don't do it! Especially if you are in transit, you only have to wait about one hour or so before it's all OK again. No one is trying to deprive you of your right to love. Just help yourself. No one is asking you to convert your religion as a prerequisite of passing through the UAE.
Why are people actively attacking Qantas over these kinds of issues when Emirates has flown a good deal of Australians internationally for such a long time, with stops in Dubai? Or, for that matter, why don't we cut up Etihad and, by extension, Virgin Australia

I was just saying that "respect" towards laws that discriminate on the basis of religion or sexual orientation is the total wrong thing to display. I am not even disagreeing with you otherwise and have traveled through both Dubai and Abu Dabhi before myself.

 

[anat0l]

I was just saying that "respect" towards laws that discriminate on the basis of religion or sexual orientation is the total wrong thing to display.

I suppose when I say "respect" I mean the minimum is agree to disagree, i.e. you don't agree with it, but don't make a big deal out of it (at least, whilst you're in the country).

That probably clears up our misunderstanding.


Anyway, to put another tack on JessicaTam's point, can anyone think of any competition related problem or issue that the ACCC may take issue to approving QF/EK's application? I can't see one immediately; that said, this is Qantas (not every Australian airline under the law is equal), and I'm not sure if there are any implications of this deal and the Qantas Sale Act (*shudder*).

 

[Berlin]

I suppose when I say "respect" I mean the minimum is agree to disagree, i.e. you don't agree with it, but don't make a big deal out of it (at least, whilst you're in the country).
That probably clears up our misunderstanding.

Yes it does- all good. It's obviously very personal to me

 

[Kaldemir]

I would've thought that even with the JSA abolished, QF will maintain at least some BA codeshares, e.g. BKK/LHR, HKG/LHR. BA also still have their own service to SYD travelling via SIN; no reason why post-JSA that you couldn't book these (even as BA marketed sectors), which means you can still link up to these in SIN via other centres (not just SYD).



It's their society and culture - you are in it, show some respect! Same thing holds if you go to any other transit point - Singapore, Bangkok, Hong Kong.... heck, even Abu Dhabi, Guangzhou....


I unfortunately expect our politicians to be immoral, unethical and generally culturally insensitive, particularly when they are left wing, as exemplified quite nicely by the bigoted Senator Kroger - thanks Danger for the quote - (and the Liberal member who was recently removed due to their references to bestiality). For what I imagine to be - by and large - a group of seasoned travellers (particularly with international travel experience), I'm surprised (and disgusted) to see pockets of such behaviour on this forum.

I presume you could still book BA flights through the BA website and LH flights with SQ connections - with reduced or no QFF point earn and no QC access in LHR/ FRA for paid QC members.

And I'm sorry I don't respect intolerance.

By the way, what is your suggestion to Jewish and Israeli travellers? Be respectful and not exist?

 

[Kaldemir]

So don't do it! Especially if you are in transit, you only have to wait about one hour or so before it's all OK again. No one is trying to deprive you of your right to love. Just help yourself. No one is asking you to convert your religion as a prerequisite of passing through the UAE.

Why are people actively attacking Qantas over these kinds of issues when Emirates has flown a good deal of Australians internationally for such a long time, with stops in Dubai? Or, for that matter, why don't we cut up Etihad and, by extension, Virgin Australia - after all, the Abu Dhabi Emirate is more conservative? IIRC EK and EY sponsor an AFL team and a stadium respectively - why aren't people flat out protesting such an association if they had reservations about where they came from? (Yes, I'm aware that said AFL team is not exactly liked by many people.....)

Why do I feel I've rolled out this argument n times already (where n > 3 or so)?



I'd like to think it will be approved fairly quickly in time for April commencement. I see the risk of QF delaying the logistical part of the agreement greater than the risk of the ACCC holding up or declining the anti-trust immunity agreement.

Of course, if more bigoted Liberal politicians have their voices heard and pushed, I guess we could see this agreement delayed or evaporated. :evil:


Last time I checked, I can't remember many airlines actually taking any kind of responsibility for the citizens of their country (as a minimum) knowing about where they were going and the laws there. (There is generic information - similar to that of a travel guide - but no big flashing lights or anything, for example, whilst you are booking a flight).

My only point is that due to the intolerance there, I choose not to travel via certain airports and Qantas is taking away the options to still fly QF while doing so.
I don't fly VA but if I wanted I think I could still fly code shares on Virgin Atlantic and Singapore Airlines?

 

[drron]

There certainly could be grounds for the ACC raising concerns.From here-
International Airlines Operated Flights and Seats

Download the excel chart and go to AUSx Airline giving the number of seats the airlines have in and out of various airports.
In June this year out of SYD QF had~172000 seats,EK~61000 and the next was SQ with ~43000
To demonstrate how SYD centric QF is the figures out of MEL were QF~55,000,EK~43000 and JQ~34000 with SQ~31000.
So the combined EK/QF seats are well in front of the competition.Though of course QF is still flying to several more destinations Ex SYD or MEL than the competition.

 

[markis10]

There certainly could be grounds for the ACC raising concerns.From here-
International Airlines Operated Flights and Seats

Download the excel chart and go to AUSx Airline giving the number of seats the airlines have in and out of various airports.
In June this year out of SYD QF had~172000 seats,EK~61000 and the next was SQ with ~43000
To demonstrate how SYD centric QF is the figures out of MEL were QF~55,000,EK~43000 and JQ~34000 with SQ~31000.
So the combined EK/QF seats are well in front of the competition.Though of course QF is still flying to several more destinations Ex SYD or MEL than the competition.

They have already flagged that it wont be approved easily !

 

[ajw373]

My only point is that due to the intolerance there, I choose not to travel via certain airports and Qantas is taking away the options to still fly QF while doing so.
I don't fly VA but if I wanted I think I could still fly code shares on Virgin Atlantic and Singapore Airlines?

Nothing stopping you flying BA or Qantas from Australia to Singapore and then BA to London and beyond. Just like today actually. Or even Qantas to Hong Kong and then CX beyond. So the options are still well and truly there. And if you want to fly Qantas metal to London you can do that too, just don't stop in Dubai if their culture offends you.

 

[simongr]

There certainly could be grounds for the ACC raising concerns.From here-
International Airlines Operated Flights and Seats

Download the excel chart and go to AUSx Airline giving the number of seats the airlines have in and out of various airports.
In June this year out of SYD QF had~172000 seats,EK~61000 and the next was SQ with ~43000
To demonstrate how SYD centric QF is the figures out of MEL were QF~55,000,EK~43000 and JQ~34000 with SQ~31000.
So the combined EK/QF seats are well in front of the competition.Though of course QF is still flying to several more destinations Ex SYD or MEL than the competition.

Conversely you could argue that QF+EK have about 32% of all travel out of Oz meaning that they are competing against 66 other airlines who currently hold 68% of travel ex-Oz...

 

[amaroo]

My only point is that due to the intolerance there, I choose not to travel via certain airports and Qantas is taking away the options to still fly QF while doing so.
I don't fly VA but if I wanted I think I could still fly code shares on Virgin Atlantic and Singapore Airlines?

Intolerance is everywhere.....

Every time I heard Mahathir Mohamad banging on about Pauline Hanson it always made me laugh........try entering Malaysia if you're an Israeli citizen!

Israelis allowed into Malaysia with conditions | theSundaily

Doesn't stop me enjoying Malaysia, I have enjoyed many holidays - it's a great country.

If you refused to travel to places based on intolerance.....you'd never get on a plane:!:

 

[medhead]

You lot are still going?


Sent from the Throne

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Conversely you could argue that QF+EK have about 32% of all travel out of Oz meaning that they are competing against 66 other airlines who currently hold 68% of travel ex-Oz...

I used the link provided by drron (International airline activity)

Summary

Fifty-two international scheduled airlines operated services to/from Australia during the month (includes four dedicated freight airlines but excludes airlines operating only via code share arrangements).​

Would you really count code-shares?
52 is still a large number for QF (and now EK) to compete with...

 

[dajop]

There certainly could be grounds for the ACC raising concerns.From here-
International Airlines Operated Flights and Seats

Download the excel chart and go to AUSx Airline giving the number of seats the airlines have in and out of various airports.
In June this year out of SYD QF had~172000 seats,EK~61000 and the next was SQ with ~43000
To demonstrate how SYD centric QF is the figures out of MEL were QF~55,000,EK~43000 and JQ~34000 with SQ~31000.
So the combined EK/QF seats are well in front of the competition.Though of course QF is still flying to several more destinations Ex SYD or MEL than the competition.

Your last line is the most pertinent, as you really can't include NZ services in this mix. Remove these pseudo-domestic services (ie trans tasman) and JQ tags (eg MEL-SYD-xx_) from the mix and the picture alters. From what I see out of MEL (SYD is too hard!) there are QF~35,000, EK~32,000, SQ~31,000, CX~24,000, Other SE Asian ~ 77,000, Other N Asian~30000 , Other Mid East~ 16,000 JQ~7000.

On the other hand, it would make QF/EK dominate Trans Tasman.