Qantas FF and Woolworths create new loyalty alliance

[oz_mark]

To float the FF scheme it has to demonstrate it can generate turnover ,
and that means burn..I suspect whilst this is the first big announced tie up there will be many more to follow in the leadup to the float

Indeed. The restaurant we went to in Adelaide has a sign at entry saying you could earn QFF points there. When asked they said it was a coming attraction. I imagine if there is one restaurant, there is going to be many, and we will all be swiping cards after our meals.

OTOH, I wonder if it will mean a reduction in the number of accounts that remain inactive for three years. If nothing else, this will keep a lot of accounts slowly ticking over.

 

[simongr]

I am looking to buy a new car and the dealership I am likely to buy from is offer QFF points with the purchase... 1pt/$2 - a nice easy 30K of points coming my way

There are already a massive number of ways to earn points...

 

[turtlemichael]

I am looking to buy a new car and the dealership I am likely to buy from is offer QFF points with the purchase... 1pt/$2 - a nice easy 30K of points coming my way

There are already a massive number of ways to earn points...

Agree. And increasing dramatically because it appears to be the most profitable and valuable part of QF. The easiest way for QF to "increase shareholder value".

Now if there is a way you can do it on the Amex card and divide it into the tyres, boot, engine separately.... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[simongr]

Sadly it will be a January purchase...

 

[straitman]

Sadly it will be a January purchase...

Bugger :!:

 

[JohnK]

You will need to have an everdyay rewards card, but you will not have to have a Woolworths credit card (although they will likely provide some incentive for that). Double Dipping will require a direct sweep card, but points from spending shouldn't. You should be able to still pay on Amex an get the MR point, and also get some number of FF points through the Everyday Rewards program.

I was under the impression one needed a Woolworths credit card to be enrolled in Everyday Rewards program.

So the news is a little better but being in a family of four the current spend at Woolworths supermarket, Big W and fuel is ~$15,000pa. Assuming a very generous transfer of 1:1 to QFF it is not a lot of points and with the expected transfer to be less generous it may not even be worth it for many people to participate. Anyway time will tell....

 

[simongr]

Bugger :!:

I have been waiting nine years almost - a little longer wont hurt and I think there will savings in January...

 

[ColinP]

Now if there is a way you can do it on the Amex card and divide it into the tyres, boot, engine separately.... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

A friend of mine (almost) bought a Lexus with his Amex. It wasn't quite new (a demonstrator I think) and had a few scratches etc that needed fixing. Delivery would be in 7 - 10 days. The salesman said they'd take Amex for the deposit but they had a $2,000 max on credit cards. Friend paid $2,000 dollars deposit and on every subsequent day he went to the reception desk and paid a further $2,000. The receptionist asked no questions and processed the transactions every day until he recieved the phone call -- " Your car is ready".

He managed to put $20,000 on the Amex before that phone call.

The salesman wasn't too pleased on delivery day and wouldn't let him charge a final $2,000 to his Amex. :evil:

 

[pauly7]

On a more serious note, I don't think any of us should be happy about this. It marks the most sigficant movement of the scheme to a Frequent Buyers' Scheme so far. At whatever the earning level for "Woolies points" turns out to be, it will create many more earners, maybe even millions more. The value of points will be even further diminished.

While it may be good for QF's bottom line and the price for which the QFF scheme is on the market, it will reduce the opportunities for flight redemption for most or all who are actually loyal QF flyers. The only opportunities for redemption will be those exclusively based on status.

If that sounds selfish, I guess it is.

It doesn't sound selfish, just a bit melodramatic and OTT.

If you take a second to really think about it and calculate the average spend in WOW over a year by the average person (as others have done in this post) and assume the point rate is a very generous 1-1... then you will see it will hardly lead to 'millions' of people redeeming flights.

Remember, approx 1 in 4 Australians are already members of the QFF program (they claim a member base of about 5.5m) so people joining QFF just for WOW points are probably not going to be your high flyers anyway - as all high flyers in this country can safely already be assumed to be members already....

The sky is not falling...

 

[pauly7]

I was under the impression one needed a Woolworths credit card to be enrolled in Everyday Rewards program.

So the news is a little better but being in a family of four the current spend at Woolworths supermarket, Big W and fuel is ~$15,000pa. Assuming a very generous transfer of 1:1 to QFF it is not a lot of points and with the expected transfer to be less generous it may not even be worth it for many people to participate. Anyway time will tell....

Nope anyone can join Everyday Rewards - they are using at the moment as an alternative for the fuel discount docket system. It's a pretty (actually, very!) lame program at the moment, so an injection of QFF will give the program a good boost.

 

[oz_mark]

Nope anyone can join Everyday Rewards - they are using at the moment as an alternative for the fuel discount docket system. It's a pretty (actually, very!) lame program at the moment, so an injection of QFF will give the program a good boost.

Although it was pretty clear that there was always going to be something more. Going to all that trouble to issue plastic cards for petrol discounts was OTT.

 

[medhead]

Overstated? Maybe. Maybe not.

First, I think your analysis is very light on for grocery/booze/cigarettes/fuel expenditure for many families. I am half of just a two person family and we spend more than that. Even if I am not typical I'd hazard a guess that there are many families spending more than you.

Well I'm a 4 person family and that is the money we spend each year at a supermarket and fuel. On grog well, I prefer quality and don't usually buy from woolies. Don't know what your spending on.

Second, you make the assumption that they'll take a trip a year. Maybe their "big trip" will be every three years with more points accumulated.

But that's my point they'd have to save over 4 or 5 years to get 80-100k points provided the earning rate is good enough.

Finally, you assume it is discrete expenditure. I think it is much more likely to be added to points already earned on the family credit cards, maybe a trip or two a year on QF already and a use of some of the other non-flying ways you can already earn QFF points.

Exactly top up points for existing members. People who don't already collect QFF points will quickly realise they can't earn that many points just from woolies.

I'd also suggest that a scheme like the Woolies one will increase "points awareness" so more credit cards, rather than cash, are used. The publicity it gets in it's lead in will be deafening.

My guess is that earning 80-100K non-flying points over three years, many of the from a new Woolies deal, will not be too hard. (IF any of them are devoted Amex forum users here, well the sky is the limit!:mrgreen

Another assumption. Lets say 10% of the population do it. Given the share of the market Woolies has I reckon that would be the minimum they would be aiming for. And assume they do a trip each third year.

That means that each year one third of that number, or roughly 700,000, will be coming into the pool seeking the same flights that other QFF'ers want.

700,000 is a fair few, but then how many millions of seats do QF fly around every year?

Sure there'll be some impact I just don't think it'll be that great. People have had fly buys etc. for years. It's a mature market and I can't see them getting anywhere near the take up that the early points schemes got. They'll quickly work out that they can't earn that many points.

But of course all speculation.

 

[turtlemichael]

Sorry you find my writing melodramatic, pauly7. That's me and I guess I'll have to live with it.

In the absence of any better guesstimates than mine as in post#38 in this thread, at least in my eyes :mrgreen:, I'll stand by what I said that this is the most significant move so far to a FBS.

I accept Medhead's point that it's all speculation at this stage as we do not even know the earn rate at Woolies. However, it's a discussion and AFF thrives on speculation.

One more speculation. The trend to devaluation of points in the scheme because of its increasingly paced conversion to a buyers' scheme will make flight redemptions harder and harder for those who earn the majority of their points by flying. I don't agree with the view some have expressed here that it is only a small thing and doesn't matter.

The scheme is now one of the most valuable parts of QF and they will be doing all they can to maximize the bottom line. That is their duty and if frequent flyers suffer in the process, so be it.

 

[ric_melb]

Some interesting comments. Given that there are some 5 million QFF members, I see the scheme with Woolworths enabling those members to earn more QFF points whilst shopping at Woolworths. There may be an addition of new QFF members, but I suspect not too many, relative to 5 million.

Also we are really dealing with two entities Qantas, the airline; and Qantas Frequent Flyer. If QFF members continue to accrue points, but Qantas don't release enough Classic Awards, then monies don't flow from QFF to Qantas.

So its seems to be in Qantas, the airline's, interests to make more seats available to fill demand. However we wont know for at least 6 months.

 

[medhead]

One more speculation. The trend to devaluation of points in the scheme because of its increasingly paced conversion to a buyers' scheme will make flight redemptions harder and harder for those who earn the majority of their points by flying. I don't agree with the view some have expressed here that it is only a small thing and doesn't matter.

The scheme is now one of the most valuable parts of QF and they will be doing all they can to maximize the bottom line. That is their duty and if frequent flyers suffer in the process, so be it.

To clarify, I only think the woolies move is a small issue. But it is a small issue inside the much big matter of the entire scheme and where QF are taking the FFP.

Interesting article in the Avaition section in last Friday's Oz. (sorry if this is already posted, I only caught up my reading today)

Qantas looking at burn-as-you-earn loyalty program | The Australian

my take is there are going to much more points and yes they are going to want you to burn them. But interesting comments about Classic and anyseat rewards being important to getting the burn.

Also apparently there were 3 million classic seat last year.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Thanks for that article Medhead.

Hickey says redemptions have risen about 24 per cent since the changes were introduced, with about two third of that going to Any Seat. The other third comes from retail where, unsurprisingly, iPods are the most popular item.

So as a ratio that means:

100 for Classic redemptions
16 for Anyseat
8 for retail redemptions

 

[vilemerchant]

Woolies everyday rewards cards soon to earn QFF points?

EDIT: delete

 

[Nigelinoz]

Re: Woolies everyday rewards cards soon to earn QFF points?

I wonder whether the move to tie QF into Everyday Rewards is a move by Qantas to attract some customers who may feel disenfranchised because they ,for one reason or another,may not be eligible to get an amex or even a normal credit card but regularly spend say $150.00 at Woolworths on groceries etc.,probably with a debit card.
Perhaps QF has done some research and found that these people would love the chance to take a free flight which is something a lot of us may take for granted? Just my thoughts.

 

[vilemerchant]

Re: Woolies everyday rewards cards soon to earn QFF points?

I wonder whether the move to tie QF into Everyday Rewards is a move by Qantas to attract some customers who may feel disenfranchised because they ,for one reason or another,may not be eligible to get an amex or even a normal credit card but regularly spend say $150.00 at Woolworths on groceries etc.,probably with a debit card.
Perhaps QF has done some research and found that these people would love the chance to take a free flight which is something a lot of us may take for granted? Just my thoughts.

This is a good point there are those with bad credit history etc who might like to get into the points-earning game, however I can't see the woolies earning potential being worth the $82 joining fee.

Perhaps a former credit card user who went broke/bankrupt but still has a QFF account could use this to keep it going

 

[SnowYeti]

Anyone heard anymore on this?