Qantas Fleet Grounded 29/10

[Moopere]

but ultimately customers were abused to achieve a goal, and I'm sorry this is not acceptable.

I know I've selectively snipped that bit of your post and now its out of context, but I did it for a reason. If you were a first time reader of this thread and hadn't seen posts before this one; the above snippet could, I think, be read as either, or both, the Union action and the board action being unacceptable.

Unfortunately though, in conflict, innocents are often harmed. Its not acceptable no, but its the way it is when push comes to shove and no one can see that enough is enough. The ante is upped and at some point war is declared.

 

[JohnPhelan]

You're both incorrest, I'm reliably informed it is Quaintarse.

Classy. This joke did the rounds in the 1970s.

 

[drron]

Not in the slightest - I'll believe something is a stuff up not a conspiracy every time. But I also know how the media works, and how backgrounding a journo works.

And I have backgrounded many a journalist even on political matters.There is a much more obvious source of this story than the opposition.

 

[samiam]

So does the FWA directive to cease all industrial action (on all 4 parties - 3 unions and Qantas) mean the pilots are no longer allowed to make the PA about their views regarding keeping Qantas Australian and using Australian pilots? Or is that not considered industrial action under the FWA legislation?

The pilot did the whole company line last night - sorry, difficult times, certainty yada, yada, yada.

Just catching up on the thread... glad I blinked!

Certainly the protected industrial action ballot from 11th July 2011 supported:

An unlimited number of indefinite or periodic bans on complying with Qantas passenger announcement statements that is substituted with AIPA authorised passenger announcements

As all industrial action has been terminated by FWA, I would assume that the above ban falls within the same category; Although, I have been grounded for 2 weeks, so cannot speak from first hand experience.

 

[notzac]

I know I've selectively snipped that bit of your post and now its out of context, but I did it for a reason. If you were a first time reader of this thread and hadn't seen posts before this one; the above snippet could, I think, be read as either, or both, the Union action and the board action being unacceptable.

Exactly right - both union and board actions in this matter to date have been entirely unacceptable. Calling it 'war' romanticises it a bit, but it doesn't change the outcome. Both union and board appear to be too busy trying to .... in each others' lunch to have any sort of customer focus (I leave it to your imagination to insert an appropriate verb)..

Having come from a customer service background, the one thing that you never do is intentionally inconvenience a paying customer. Genius move politically, but extremely poor form. I intend on continuing to not book with Qantas.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

You move in the wrong circles?

As I said previously, it seems support for each side rests with your political voting preference. I deal with the public everyday and also move in political circles, and I have only come across one who supports the union side, and her relative is one of the union members involved, so it could family loyalty, just as my perception is weighted by my life contacts and experiences.

I don't believe one's stance on whether AJ did a good or a bad thing is political at all. If that was the case and your assumption that only people who don't support Joyce vote labour you may be surprised to find that's not necessarily the case.

I couldn't care less who's PM - Julia, the Milky Bar Kid or the Mad Monk. Irrespective or a Liberal or Labour Government, the events of 29 Oct should not have happened.

I am looking at the situation as a whole and the damage this 48 hour grounding has done to Australia as a tourism destination. We received millions of dollars of free publicity from Oprah filming her TV shows here & now all that is down the drain.

The word 'negotiate' simply isn't in AJ's vocabulary - it's 'my way or the highway' is his modus operandi and it's in his blood & goes back hundreds of years.

A CEO of any company should not be able make a decision that in effect can cripple a country & cause irrepairable damage to the tourism & no doubt many other industries.

 

[dfcatch]

The premise was regarding the public impact.

....and as an aside, your listed dollar loss figures are as rubbery as a Qantas bread roll.

But I suppose any "union- sourced figures" are solid as a rock??

 

[Cynicor]

Just received a survey on qantas and the grounding/industrial action. Qantas wanted to know my general opinion of them vs the other main carriers in the region, and the some stuff about management Nd perceptions due to the grounding.

They managed to get te survey out pretty quickly.

 

[oz_mark]

Exactly right - both union and board actions in this matter to date have been entirely unacceptable. Calling it 'war' romanticises it a bit, but it doesn't change the outcome. Both union and board appear to be too busy trying to .... in each others' lunch to have any sort of customer focus (I leave it to your imagination to insert an appropriate verb)..

Having come from a customer service background, the one thing that you never do is intentionally inconvenience a paying customer. Genius move politically, but extremely poor form. I intend on continuing to not book with Qantas.

Until such a time as management and workers can get themselves on the same page, I suspect that good service from Qantas is not going to be forthcoming. Recovery from where they are is going to be difficult and require more than sale fares etc.

 

[Mr_Gimlet]

Good in-depth article in the Fin Review this morning (no link - behind the paywall) with some interesting views.

 

[possumFF]

I'm with Tony Hancock. Having forked out $$$$ to be a QC Life. It seems Virgin can't be their mind around how to absorb us at this time. Bugga ...

 

[dfcatch]

I'm with Tony Hancock. Having forked out $$$$ to be a QC Life. It seems Virgin can't be their mind around how to absorb us at this time. Bugga ...

Well, I can understand this from Virgin's perspective.

You haven't paid the lifetime fee to them.

But perhaps they are able to offer a discount Lounge membership..??

 

[Flying mermaid]

Just received a survey on qantas and the grounding/industrial action. Qantas wanted to know my general opinion of them vs the other main carriers in the region, and the some stuff about management Nd perceptions due to the grounding.

They managed to get te survey out pretty quickly.

I received one yesterday evening - had fun with it.....

 

[possumFF]

Well, I can understand this from Virgin's perspective.

You haven't paid the lifetime fee to them.

But perhaps they are able to offer a discount Lounge membership..??

That's what I am interested to see. I also understand that they are inundated .... I live in London & will not fly for a few months, so can wait & observe ...

 

[possumFF]

I never received a survey.
Guess I'm on of the regular Y international dullards with QC membership who aren't important.

 

[amaroo]

Until such a time as management and workers can get themselves on the same page, I suspect that good service from Qantas is not going to be forthcoming. Recovery from where they are is going to be difficult and require more than sale fares etc.

I would think good service is a result that is delivered by all or probably more accurate the majority of the staff. If I were one of the 80% not striking I would take umbrage that good service is totally dependant upon a small minority of the workforce, the overwhelming majority of staff turn up everyday to complete their task therefore, providing service to all.

There has been a rush to ignore the critical fact that there is only a small amount of staff that are rebelling - granted they perform critical roles but isn't it accepted that everyone contributes therefore, all positions are critical in any organisation?

I wonder how many members of each of the three unions are die hard supporters & are happy with their unions performance. One would think that their ranks are filled with doubters & members suffering from the classic union sign on or you're a scab type threats. At a guess I would think the "true believer" numbers are far lower than the total membership.

 

[simongr]

Just received a survey on qantas and the grounding/industrial action. Qantas wanted to know my general opinion of them vs the other main carriers in the region, and the some stuff about management Nd perceptions due to the grounding.

They managed to get te survey out pretty quickly.

They also have updated the website for claims and refunds pretty quickly - much more quickly than they normally do...

 

[themaiz]

Just received a survey on qantas and the grounding/industrial action.
....
They managed to get te survey out pretty quickly.

I haven't received the survey (as far as I can see), but something very interesting arrived from QF in today's mail, dated yesterday and sent by express post.

(Note: truncated for no other reason than to conserve space - I am NOT being cynical):

"Dear TheMaiz,
I was sorry to learn about your experience on your flight QF12 to Sydney with us"

(would that be a reference to the idiot in 40D? It would be magic for QF to pick that up, so probably a general reference to my PNR on Sunday night)

Continues.... "We are currently working through the circumstances for each of our customers who were disrupted by the grounding of our fleet on a case-by-case basis to ensure you are appropriately compensated for the inconvenience experienced"

(which would be: accept my lost-earnings claim for the engagements I had to cancel on Monday and Tuesday!)

"Following this review we will be providing you with a goodwill gesture...."
"...apologies for the disruption... hope we will have an opportunity to restore your trust in Qantas".

On this latter point they are relatively safe with me: I have no particular reason to stop flying QF, and because my Gold renewal is line-ball every year, I don't dare fly DJ until I can see the magic clip point being achieved. Although, if I were going to stop flying for a year and still request Gold renewal on the basis of circumstances, this would be the year to do it. Maybe I'm not pissed off enough yet?

Anyway, I thought this was a nice touch, and shows that the home team is much better organised than the complete lack of contact we had while we were trapped overseas. I wonder what they intend to do? SC? Points? Upgrade chits? MCO?

I wait with baited breath.

 

[brucek]

Gruen Planet dealt with matter very well on 2 November 2011 Episode 6 - Gruen Planet - ABC TV

Essentialy QF took the view it was better to take a short and sharp hit than to continue to die a 'death by a thousand cuts' as it was doing at the hands of unions. Those of you that have dealt with trade unions may appreciate these people tend to take the narrow, short term, parochial view of things. The QF Board of Directors take a much longer term and broader view of things. The unions want to retain work practices that belong back in the 'two airline policy' days. QF has a cost base unsustainable into the longer term. Those that understand the difference between QF and JQ staff conditions, by way of an example, will understand where QF is coming from.

 

[Jeffrey O'Neill]

i see there's been another engine failure for a QF A380.

I'm wondering if the maintenance for this aircraft was performed in Australia?

Considering the unions haven't gone running to news corp I'm suspecting that maintenance was done by local staff.

I really do think that both sides are bloody idiots. QF management, and the board, are way overpaid for what they do.

As for the QF unions, well quite a few of the staff are overpaid for what they do as well, and esp the dinosaurs (that's what they call the old timers within QF) seem to have a too high opinion of themselves and the kind of work they can do.

I don't see we need to drop pay and conditions to air asia levels, but the QF unions need to understand that the current setup will send QF broke in a short time frame.

At the same time, QF management should have their pay levels staggered to a combination of ROA and ROE. This might help to cut down their obscene pay levels.