Qantas Fleet Grounded 29/10

[serfty]

And the ordering A330 which had light floors, and such were not used for there intended purpose.

r

Light floors had little do to with not being able to use the original "332's for there (sic) intended purpose".

That "intended purpose" was high volume traffic on the 'golden triangle' (MEL/SYD/BNE), but it turned out they could not be refuelled in sufficient time to consistently meet the required ~45 minute turnaround times.

This is where "Light Floors" comes in - they were quite adequate for Oz Domestic business class routes but not solid enough to handle Skybeds so could not be configured (competitively) for mainline international routes.

For a time they were used mainly on transcontinental runs until eventually they formed the basis of JQi.

 

[Moopere]

He would almost certainly have to wait a year. (I did, and declined again!)

Mmm. Thats what I thought.

Its a big ask. Too big for me I think in that situation. Depends I suppose on the long term likelihood of keeping your job as CEO. I'm certainly able to see the big picture in my business and have forgone short term money gain in order to assist a business maintain the chances of staying viable (not only me of course, my wage alone is not business saving ... heh!). But I'm not sure if this is how the game is played at the top level. I assume he could be let go with reasonably short notice .. ie, he's possibly not guaranteed 5-10 years to implement a plan and work it through and reap the rewards of doing so.

 

[oz_mark]

I think that the fact that the remuneration report got a 96% for vote indicates that the shareholders are happy with the way things are going.

 

[TonyHancock]

I think that the fact that the remuneration report got a 96% for vote indicates that the shareholders are happy with the way things are going.

Yep, and that is fine....however it would be so much easier for QF at the moment without the headlines about Mr Joyce's increase.

Again, this is is not a black and white, right and wrong issue. It is about "perception". Rightly or wrongly the press has "shaped" public opinion.

Fortunately the press has little to do with my position but for me giving my increase to my staff was the right thing to do. My staff makes my business.

 

[oz_mark]

Yep, and that is fine....however it would be so much easier for QF at the moment without the headlines about Mr Joyce's increase.

Again, this is is not a black and white, right and wrong issue. It is about "perception". Rightly or wrongly the press has "shaped" public opinion.

Fortunately the press has little to do with my position but for me giving my increase to my staff was the right thing to do. My staffs make my business.

I don't disagree with your position, but I do think that Qantas (CEO and board) was emboldened by the pretty strong show of support that they got from shareholders at the AGM. Any weaker support and I doubt that the actions taken last weekend would have happened.

 

[TonyHancock]

I don't disagree with your position, but I do think that Qantas (CEO and board) was emboldened by the pretty strong show of support that they got from shareholders at the AGM. Any weaker support and I doubt that the actions taken last weekend would have happened.

Fair comment oz_mark.

 

[Jeffrey O'Neill]

Hope FWA can knock some heads to gether with the 21 day grace period, or cut thru the BS from both sides so a reasonable outcome is made.

Part of me thinks a union rep should be involved in deciding how to cut costs so that QF can afford to pay the bills, shareholders, and upgrade the fleet. Cutting out an olive on first class meals ain't gonna save the airline :mrgreen:

 

[Flashback]

That's a really good deal! How long ago did you buy it?

I think it was around mid-2005 or 2006.

There were corporate rates available though and mrsdrron got life golden wings for$400.My Life QP was just a little dearer.

Perhaps they knew that "life" wasn't going to entail much more and thus didn't want to be fleecing people

 

[oz_mark]

While we are all feeling warm and fuzzy - I saw this on the net somewhere:

Great Aviation Quotes:

The greatest sin of airline management of the last 22 years is to say, "It’s all labor’s fault."
— Donald Carty, Chairman and CEO American Airlines, 12 August 2002.

British Airways believes that it is intrinsically deceptive for two carriers to share a designator code.
— British Airways, comment on PDSR-85, Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, Docket 42199, 1984.

As of 1992, in fact—though the picture would have improved since then—the money that had been made since the dawn of aviation by all of this country's airline companies was zero. Absolutely zero.
— Warren Buffett, billionaire investor, interview 1999.

If the employees come first, then they are happy. A motivated employee treats the customer well. The customer is happy so they keep coming back, which pleases the shareholders. It's not one of the enduring great mysteries of all time, it is just the way it works.
— Herb Kelleher, Southwest Airlines CEO, in Lee, W. G., 'A Conversation with Herb Kelleher,' Organizational Dynamics, volume 23, issue 2, Autumn 1994.

Loyal employees in any company create loyal customers, who in turn create happy shareholders.
— Sir Richard Branson, Virgin Atlantic Airways founder and CEO, 2001.

“I know some CEO’s say, look after your customers, look after your employees, and the returns for shareholders will follow. I do the exact opposite.”

--Geoff Dixon
http://www.ceoforum.com.au/article-detail.cfm?cid=6292&t=/Geoff-Dixon-Qantas/Flying-hazards

 

[ajw373]

Both impacted the public.

But the Unions actions were a mosquito bite; the Qantas mgt actions were a nuclear bomb. Keep perspective.

Indeed keep perspective. A mosquito bite can lead to a long and painful death from the likes of dengue or malaria, whereas a nuke it's over and done with. Guess that's what Qantas managament wanted, it all over and done with rather than letting the passengers put up with a year of pain whilst the company was sucked dry by the mozzies.

 

[ajw373]

And the ordering A330 which had light floors, and such were not used for there intended purpose.

r

The light floored A330's were used for their intended purpose, which was Australian domestic.

 

[browski]

I don't disagree with your position, but I do think that Qantas (CEO and board) was emboldened by the pretty strong show of support that they got from shareholders at the AGM. Any weaker support and I doubt that the actions taken last weekend would have happened.

I know it is a small point, but Qantas did not get 96% support of shareholders, they got 96% support of shares.

 

[Moopere]

I know it is a small point, but Qantas did not get 96% support of shareholders, they got 96% support of shares.

An even more important point unless one believes in a system of proportioning vote weight per owner rather than per ownership stake. 96% of the voting owned capital showed support, thats a mandate if I ever saw one.

 

[browski]

An even more important point unless one believes in a system of proportioning vote weight per owner rather than per ownership stake. 96% of the voting owned capital showed support, thats a mandate if I ever saw one.

It is.
However, similarly, it is simply not correct to state that they received the support of 96% of the shareholders.

 

[Moopere]

It is.
However, similarly, it is simply not correct to state that they received the support of 96% of the shareholders.

Its likely people misspeaking. 96% shareholding support would probably be correct, 96% shareholder support implies the people (or entities) behind the shares and would be incorrect.

Its spliting hairs though as this type of error happens all lthe time. During political election times you will hear this all the time. This party got 52% public support .... did they really? Or did they get approximately 52% of the properly counted, eligible, non donkey, registered voters, votes?

I suppose the media and commentators could/should rephrase for more clarity: 96% of the counted and eligible votes cast were in favour of ...

 

[oz_mark]

I think that the fact that the remuneration report got a 96% for vote indicates that the shareholders are happy with the way things are going.

I know it is a small point, but Qantas did not get 96% support of shareholders, they got 96% support of shares.

As I said, they got a 96% for vote. The 96% would be based on the number of shares voted.

 

[browski]

Its spliting hairs though as this type of error happens all lthe time. During political election times you will hear this all the time. This party got 52% public support .... did they really? Or did they get approximately 52% of the properly counted, eligible, non donkey, registered voters, votes?

Ahhhh no, that is not a good analogy at all, in fact it is the polar opposite of my point. Anyway it was a small pedantic point, and one that in retrospect, added nothing to the thread.

 

[dk4]

What is clear is that institutional investors were decisive and unanimous in giving the chairman and CEO “enough rope”.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Which is the lesser of 2 evils? Disrupt 60 million over 2 months or dirupt 60-80 million in one weekend?

The Unions never blindsided passengers like QF Management did as there was always advance notice of any possible delays or disruptions to flights. I've heard so many people use the words disgusted and Alan Joyce in the one sentence when referring to that event.

The general public supports the employees because they hate seeing someone preaching cost cutting & job losses all the while accepting a $2M pay increase. You may be able to get away with that when you are a dictator of some third world country but we won't cop it here.

“I know some CEO’s say, look after your customers, look after your employees, and the returns for shareholders will follow. I do the exact opposite.”

--Geoff Dixon
http://www.ceoforum.com.au/article-detail.cfm?cid=6292&t=/Geoff-Dixon-Qantas/Flying-hazards

Well he did look after his secretary quite well.....it's not cheap raising their two children in Switzerland. I don't think AJ will have the same predicament though. :shock: :shock:

 

[Oneworldplus2]

The Unions never blindsided passengers like QF Management did as there was always advance notice of any possible delays or disruptions to flights. I've heard so many people use the words disgusted and Alan Joyce in the one sentence when referring to that event.

The general public supports the employees because they hate seeing someone preaching cost cutting & job losses all the while accepting a $2M pay increase. You may be able to get away with that when you are a dictator of some third world country but we won't cop it here.

If AJ does leave/sacked, will QF be able to find a CEO to run a Global Airline/ASX50 Top company for under a few million per annum?

Well he did look after his secretary quite well.....it's not cheap raising their two children in Switzerland. I don't think AJ will have the same predicament though. :shock: :shock:

Yes, the newspapers revealed that AJ is gay (to a NZ partner) and also swing towards the left...(who cares really)...