Qantas frequent flyers unleash over ‘almost worthless points’ in submissions to Senate

[FlyingKangaroo]

I liken Qantas points to junk-status bonds. I'll give them a straight BB rating at the moment.

• Are they categorically worthless? No.
  
  
• Are they likely to deliver the preferred advertised return at the desired time? Also no.
  
  
• Do they on occasion? Yes.
  
  
• Does the average punter understand any of the above? No.
  
  
• Does Qantas do a few simple things that would make it any easier for the average punter to understand? No.

I would add that at least junk bonds try to woo you in with the potential of a better return than easier/more secure investments. QFF requires relatively more points than many competitors despite the availability being less.

 

[levelnine]

QFF requires relatively more points than many competitors despite the availability being less.

Haha I like the analogy to junk bonds.

In QF's defence, they make it easier to earn points than most other programs, which somewhat excuses them for their high award prices.

 

[Vic]

having been looking for 2 or 3 simple one way business awards to anywhere in the USA for next July, since day 1 that awards are released, I've decided Qantas points are next to useless, unless I want to fly via taipei on some ludicrous routing.
Even trying to find one business award was impossible. Don't tell me be flexible, since I would accept any Australian capital to any US city and allowed +/- one week. Could not get any business awards on Qantas flights, not at all.
Best possible was premium economy on AA, or economy on Qantas. If you cannot hand out classic awards on your own aircraft then your points are utter rubbish. I'm only platinum of course.

No i did not ring up to request a release since that's 1 seat, and I need to get 3 people to the USA sometime within 3 days of each other.

Someone mentioned flybuys points - They go to VA, I can get lots of easy premium awards with my VA points on Singapore or qatar. Yes, even with the conversion Flybuys points are better than qantas points - IME.

 

[levelnine]

No i did not ring up to request a release since that's 1 seat,

Just note you can request the release of more than one seat.

 

[Lynda2475]

There were some AA metal J seats to SYD-LAX for last week of July and early August when I was looking last week. Haven't seen QF drop any of their own seats for DFW or JFK yet.

July next year will be a problem for EU awards due to the olympics.

 

[Mr H]

having been looking for 2 or 3 simple one way business awards to anywhere in the USA for next July, since day 1 that awards are released, I've decided Qantas points are next to useless, unless I want to fly via taipei on some ludicrous routing...
I would accept any Australian capital to any US city and allowed +/- one week...
I can get lots of easy premium awards with my VA points on Singapore or qatar.

So why do you insist on direct routing Australia to USA with QF redemptions when you are championing SQ and QR which presumably also do not offer direct Australia-USA routes?

 

[Vic]

Just note you can request the release of more than one seat.

Thanks. I did not know that...

There were some AA metal J seats to SYD-LAX for last week of July and early August when I was looking last week. Haven't seen QF drop any of their own seats for DFW or JFK yet.

July next year will be a problem for EU awards due to the olympics.

I was prompted again to search following an announcement that QF had release more awards MEL to LAX, last week. that's when I found PE on AA.

So why do you insist on direct routing Australia to USA with QF redemptions when you are championing SQ and QR which presumably also do not offer direct Australia-USA routes?

Many assumptions in your question young padawan...
Did I say anything flying to the USA with those airlines? No!
Am I championing those Airlines? No!

My comment was about the ease of finding premium awards on those airlines as an alternative, which I have done many times to travel to different parts of the world.

But yeah, when I flew to Europe earlier this year for example - no qantas premium awards, plenty of premium awards using VA points.

 

[Quickstatus]

So why do you insist on direct routing Australia to USA with QF redemptions when you are championing SQ and QR which presumably also do not offer direct Australia-USA routes?

Because the only benefit of QF is the direct/ non stop
If Qf cannot provide reasonable access to 1 PNR/ non stop FF seats then they are no different to other airlines such as SQ and QR and for many people less attractive.

 

[RooFlyer]

Haha I like the analogy to junk bonds.

I don't. Junk bonds give a yield well above the market. Qantas' Points don't and often can't be invested at all. Just junk.

 

[DrGear]

If it weren't for China Airlines opening up flight accessibility for rewards bookings, I'd still be sitting on over a million points I can't seem to redeem for anywhere I'd want to go, or places I do wanna go at a time I can't get there. They're kind of a useless commodity unless you have status which I don't because my points accrue through my Amex (which just capped their earning rate and halves past 500K).

When they had the giftcard special I got some apple cards because the partner works there and we get a discount and I got a new computer for the business because there wasn't much else I could do with them.

 

[drron]

Haha I like the analogy to junk bonds.

In QF's defence, they make it easier to earn points than most other programs, which somewhat excuses them for their high award prices.

Though I think if you are American and live in the USA it is easier to get AA/ UA/ DL points than an Australian in Australia to get QFF points.

 

[levelnine]

Junk bonds give a yield well above the market. Qantas' Points don't and often can't be invested at all.

Well QFF points yield well above cash (ie classic rewards). It's just that they're frequently impaired (ie no availability).

 

[RooFlyer]

Well QFF points yield well above cash (ie classic rewards). It's just that they're frequently impaired (ie no availability).

Pay that!

 

[levelnine]

Though I think if you are American and live in the USA it is easier to get AA/ UA/ DL points than an Australian in Australia to get QFF points.

AA points are quite hard to get. Only two credit card issuers (Citi & Barclays) with limited churning opportunities.

UA & DL points are easy to get, but DL charges ~500K for a SYD-LAX ticket while UA charges ~250K (last minute discounts notwithstanding).

 

[drron]

AA points are quite hard to get. Only two credit card issuers (Citi & Barclays) with limited churning opportunities.

UA & DL points are easy to get, but DL charges ~500K for a SYD-LAX ticket while UA charges ~250K (last minute discounts notwithstanding).

i don't think you are fully aware of the AA program. sure limited CC cards But every dollar you spend on those cards gives you 1 elite qualifying point as well as the ordinary miles. So anyone with those cards will by spending $US200000 will get EXP status.
Name a QFF branded card that will earn you WP just by spending any amount on it.

The 17 Best Ways To Earn AAdvantage Loyalty Points

The American Airlines AAdvantage loyalty program has been revamped. Check out how you can earn Loyalty Points to get elite status here!

upgradedpoints.com

So @cove hope you take Aadvantage of this fact.

 

[levelnine]

So anyone with those cards will by spending $US200000 will get EXP status.

I am fully aware of the AA program. The issue is that you seem to live in a different universe than most other people.

For most people, dropping the equivalent of $AUD315,000 per year on a single credit card is either (a) not possible or (b) foolish because that spend could be redirected to multiple cards than earn far more points in far more valuable currencies.

It's the equivalent of saying 'I don't get why anyone cares about earning frequent flyer points, just pay for first class in cash' LOL.

 

[Mr H]

It's the equivalent of saying 'I don't get why anyone cares about earning frequent flyer points, just pay for first class in cash' LOL.

On FT, the standard response to anyone whinging about airline service or other pax was "just fly private".

 

[anyonebutqantas]

EU airlines? I think AB was the only real loss

They have gained AF/ KL .... way bigger combined network >>

They still have IB AY BA in Europe as well

Malev was the biggest loss.

 

[Kangol]

I've decided Qantas points are next to useless

Luckily your opinion is useless, just as everyone else's is, in the eyes of Qantas. They won't listen to it and will still continue to issue points. QFF is a profitable business. It's their game that you voluntarily agreed to.

If you cannot hand out classic awards on your own aircraft then your points are utter rubbish.

If you cannot follow the rules of someone else's game, then your cognitive and decision making ability in this setting is rubbish.
Your statement is identical to saying that (using a sporting/game example) "all soccer players on the soccer pitch not being allowed to use their hands to touch the ball is rubbish".
Go ahead, keep on disagreeing with how Qantas created their game and how they control you to play it.
All of this is playing to their advantage, you (and others with a similar mindset) just don't know it and probably never will because it's difficult for said people to see things from the other perspective.
I bet QFF have a big sign in their offices saying "don't hate the player, hate the game"

On FT, the standard response to anyone whinging about airline service or other pax was "just fly private".

If an equivalent saying ever existed, it would probably be to "just start your own airline"
Remember, it's not the truth that hurts, it's the judgement!

 

[Seat0B]

having been looking for 2 or 3 simple one way business awards to anywhere in the USA for next July, since day 1 that awards are released, I've decided Qantas points are next to useless, unless I want to fly via taipei on some ludicrous routing.
Even trying to find one business award was impossible. Don't tell me be flexible, since I would accept any Australian capital to any US city and allowed +/- one week. Could not get any business awards on Qantas flights, not at all.
Best possible was premium economy on AA, or economy on Qantas. If you cannot hand out classic awards on your own aircraft then your points are utter rubbish. I'm only platinum of course.

This is pretty much my experience too. We are all but retired and don't try to travel at busy times. We allow +/- several weeks. Sometimes we can get a Classic Reward J outbound (there might be 1 date in a month)- but there are practically never any to return home. That means you are stuck paying for a one way fare in an unattractive exchange rate situation. It's soul destroying.

And don't even get me started on CR J trips to ME to see Seat Son. The only alternative is EK codeshare metal, and again there are no seats (actually not in Y or F either) and if you do find the unicorn, the carrier fees are ott.

This has not always been the case - as I said upthread I have a long consecutive history as a WP or P1 and we are both LTG. I previously managed a lot of J redemptions (2013-2018) by being flexible with dates and routing. But not any more. So the rules have definitely changed, and not in my favour.

We have started to use the points (of which we have millions) for J domestic flights (and now I have points club I get a few SC for this as well) and just pay for international flights. As soon as I cannot easily (and within budget) maintain the WP status paying formy J flights and using DSC as much as I can, I will search for a new alliance/FF program. Am currently thinking of trying a Virgin status match (if I can get one) and then join QR FF program for international. Of course all this will have to wait now until I am off leukaemia imposed isolation and travel ban. Who knows when that will be