Qantas: 'one of the worst airlines in the free world'

[MEL_Traveller]

Not in my experience, even on the cheapest QF domestic Y fare you get a meal/snack (time of day dependent) and drink (alcohol too if a city flyer evening flight), checked baggage and included IFE. On AA and UA domestic Y flights in the US you only get checked luggage if booked in conjunction with an international fare (or pay extra for a luggage inclusive fare), and no free meals. Maybe pretzels and maybe a soda, but never free alcohol without status.

Packet of cookies or an apple = same same as a bag of pretzels (for me at least!). Anyone one world ruby or above gets first bag free in the USA. And with no hand baggage weight restrictions that's a huge plus!

 

[Melburnian1]

QF cabin staff do not have a list of how many FF points the passengers have

You've completely misunderstood my comment.

My friend is the traveller who has numerous QF FF points, and the one who has observed QF staff on board in other seats in the same cabin being feted to the detriment of paying passengers.

 

[p--and--t]

I will probably get howled down for this comment, but here goes....

Qantas/QantasLink flies >61,000 passengers on 614 flights per day, with varied catering, varying aircraft, each with an individual crew mix of thousands of individuals that fly each day on a limited number of flights, generating a myriad of individual experiences. (Does not include Jetstar or QF International)

Given the experience offered to each passenger on each flight factually varies and is individually perceived by the passenger in a different way due to their personality, mood, previous experience, DYKWIA factor, and expectations, I find some of the superlatives expressed by some contributors of AFF labelling this or that airline as anything in an absolute manner and predicting what others may or may not experience on their next flight as plainly ludicrous.

 

[Melburnian1]

...Given the experience offered to each passenger on each flight factually varies and is individually perceived by the passenger in a different way due to their personality, mood, previous experience, DYKWIA factor, and expectations, I find some of the superlatives expressed by some contributors of AFF labelling this or that airline as anything in an absolute manner and predicting what others may or may not experience on their next flight as plainly ludicrous.

Experiences on board are due to the aircraft layout, punctuality, catering (good, indifferent or bad), cleanliness of general areas plus loos, seating comfort, entertainment availability, performance and choice, the behaviour of other passengers and whether one has a shadow next to one, but often most of all staff attitude (terrific to poor with everything in between possible).

There's nothing ludicrous about individuals who fly rating one airline against another and offering an opinion.

For me, QF wouldn't even be in the top 15 worldwide airlines. And I've flown more than 15.

 

[p--and--t]

Experiences on board are due to the aircraft layout, punctuality, catering (good, indifferent or bad), cleanliness of general areas plus loos, seating comfort, entertainment availability, performance and choice, the behaviour of other passengers and whether one has a shadow next to one, but often most of all staff attitude (terrific to poor with everything in between possible).

There's nothing ludicrous about individuals who fly rating one airline against another and offering an opinion.

For me, QF wouldn't even be in the top 15 worldwide airlines. And I've flown more than 15.

HI Melburnian1

Yes another experienced flier with a variety of experiences that have formed your view of your preferences.

I also have covered some ground over the years on more than 25 airlines to over 70 countries. And my experience is severely limited to only those flights I have personally been on and my perceptions of those flights and cannot be a predictor of what others perceptions of their flights may be.

A quick example is I have several friends who avow to me on a regular basis that Emirates is one of their top airlines, if not the best, they have ever experienced. However my experience is limited to 5 flights with the carrier. 5 out of 5 varied from very disappointing to abysmal and unsafe and I have vowed never to fly with them again due to my experiences. However, that does not change the fact millions of passengers love them and have their reasons for doing so.

The same can be said about Qantas.

I found it interesting that you state you have flown on 15+ airlines and Qantas isn't in the top 15! I can only conclude you rate them as almost, if not bottom. There must be some real horror stories for you to form that view.

In my experience, not yours or anyone else's, Qantas would definitely not on average be the best, but of the over 25 carriers I have flown, they would be somewhere in the first 5.

My flight from NRT to BNE on QF last year was to my mind faultless and very enjoyable as surprisingly was my flight from LHR to DFW on AA (except for J food being a burger).

My flight on BA from NBO to LHR, aside from it being on time, was terrible - airport handling, boarding, disembarkation, crew attitude and training, plane, food, you name it.

Given the myriad of variables on each flight and influenced by my preconceived expectations, my next flight with any given airline might be superb or dreadful or more likely somewhere in the middle, I cannot predict which.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I will probably get howled down for this comment, but here goes....

Qantas/QantasLink flies >61,000 passengers on 614 flights per day, with varied catering, varying aircraft, each with an individual crew mix of thousands of individuals that fly each day on a limited number of flights, generating a myriad of individual experiences. (Does not include Jetstar or QF International)

Given the experience offered to each passenger on each flight factually varies and is individually perceived by the passenger in a different way due to their personality, mood, previous experience, DYKWIA factor, and expectations, I find some of the superlatives expressed by some contributors of AFF labelling this or that airline as anything in an absolute manner and predicting what others may or may not experience on their next flight as plainly ludicrous.

Well yes. Except that there are some airlines that manage to pass the test. Singapore Airlines for example. Pretty much solid reviews by everyone, all the time.

The difference is that with some airlines people are aware - even accept - that they're going to have to make allowances from time to time. That is, not all flights will be perfect. If someone compains about Qantas the QF fans will argue it's a big airline with varied crew, varied passengers or varied product, etc. And that we should manage expectations.

With Singapore if someone complains it really is considered an exception, rather than within the bounds of 'normal'.

 

[p--and--t]

Well yes. Except that there are some airlines that manage to pass the test. Singapore Airlines for example. Pretty much solid reviews by everyone, all the time.

The difference is that with some airlines people are aware - even accept - that they're going to have to make allowances from time to time. That is, not all flights will be perfect. If someone compains about Qantas the QF fans will argue it's a big airline with varied crew, varied passengers or varied product, etc. And that we should manage expectations.

With Singapore if someone complains it really is considered an exception, rather than within the bounds of 'normal'.

I would have to agree with you that, as a generalisation, SQ is highly regarded, and from the 6 flights very satisfactory flights I have had with them I have formed a view that they are one of my favoured airlines.

There would be some individuals however that would disagree with both of us due to their personal experiences as several poor reviews on skytrax and other sites attest. No-one gets it right 100% of the time.

 

[Melburnian1]

I would have to agree with you that, as a generalisation, SQ is highly regarded, and from the 6 flights very satisfactory flights I have had with them I have formed a view that they are one of my favoured airlines.

There would be some individuals however that would disagree with both of us due to their personal experiences as several poor reviews on skytrax and other sites attest. No-one gets it right 100% of the time.

SQ is imperfect, but it manages to get it correct the vast majority of the time, given that on worldwide review sites like TripAdvisor it often, perhaps usually, wins 'airline of the world.'

I saw some podcast where a TripAdvisor staff member stated that that site now had 1.4 million airline reviews on it. Difficult to 'game' a site if an airline has say 10000 to 50000 reviews (although at least one of the mainland Chinese airlines might try).

 

[Melburnian1]

HI Melburnian1...I found it interesting that you state you have flown on 15+ airlines and Qantas isn't in the top 15! I can only conclude you rate them as almost, if not bottom. There must be some real horror stories for you to form that view...

It's the only airline I've found more than once to have passive-aggressive staff who appear to believe that paying passengers are a nuisance.

Mind you. I've only flown twice on UA (quite some years ago) and not at all on AA, DL or other USA mainline airlines, but I have flown on BI, BR, CX, EK, EY, JQ, MH, PR, SQ, VA,, 5J and Z2 in recent times plus JL and NZ longer ago, and others prior to that including some that are defunct whether in Oz or internationally. Not just AN.

 

[Ausbt]

A friend who has many historical QF FF points says some of his worst trips have been when the front of the plane has several QF staff travelling for free. The cabin crew chat so much to them that 'service' to the paying passengers declines.

I'm going to agree with this, but give QF a break and pin it on VA. Over Christmas flew SYD-HKG in J with VA. A crew and her SO were directly in front. The CSM basically stood half in 'my' J 'area' (can I really say suite?) leaning over the backrest shell chatting on with her off-duty colleague. After 30 mins I was really over it. Yes, I should have made a fuss but I guess it was line-ball and I just wasn't in the mood for a confrontation, even though I'm normally up for it. Of course the off-duty crew could have paid full freight for that seat, but ...nahhh probably didn't. Wouldn't matter if they had - get out of my seat area. All round on that flight the VA crew were pretty average really, and its fairly typical. It's only when you go and fly SQ you realise what service really is.

"spare seat beside you" - occasionally, depending on load
BD

This is the one that as a VA WP I think has occurred often. I've had many, many trips in 3A with no one in 3B. And on EY flying Y, check-in at LHR were very particular in telling me "we will keep a spare seat next to you" and that was indeed the case LHR-AUH-SYD. Plus CSM greetings. It's a shame EY are struggling because honestly I've had some bearable trips with them in Y.

 

[JohnK]

For me, QF wouldn't even be in the top 15 worldwide airlines. And I've flown more than 15.

I don't think I've flown that many airlines but Qantas would be in the top 2 or 3. And that's based on my experiences which are going to differ as we're looking at things through my eyes. Also note that it's not just the on board experience that's used to rate.

P.S. There are quite a few airlines I do not want to fly in economy as I'm more than certain I will not have a satisfactory experience. Not good to pre-judge (and some will say I pre-judge a lot) but I'm a firm believer in comfort zones and I'm extremely happy with Qantas, Emirates and to a lesser extent Singapore Airlines that I don't need to try other airlines.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I don't think I've flown that many airlines but Qantas would be in the top 2 or 3. And that's based on my experiences which are going to differ as we're looking at things through my eyes. Also note that it's not just the on board experience that's used to rate.

P.S. There are quite a few airlines I do not want to fly in economy as I'm more than certain I will not have a satisfactory experience. Not good to pre-judge (and some will say I pre-judge a lot) but I'm a firm believer in comfort zones and I'm extremely happy with Qantas, Emirates and to a lesser extent Singapore Airlines that I don't need to try other airlines.

But in your case I would dare say that's all down to your status. Would Qantas be the same if you had to pay for your seats at the back of the plane, more than likely have someone reclining in to you (no bulkheads), join long queues at the airport to check in, get whatever meal is left after they serve those with status, no greetings from the crew of offers of assistance, no lounges.

Breezing through the airport into the First class lounge, priority boarding to a front row seat and a greeting from the CSM probably goes 99% of the way to setting up a great flight, no matter what?

 

[JohnK]

Breezing through the airport into the First class lounge, priority boarding to a front row seat and a greeting from the CSM probably goes 99% of the way to setting up a great flight, no matter what?

I don't disagree with you but all those things need to be taken into consideration which is why the answer will be different for most people.

And with Lifetime Gold I don't need to venture too far and can continue to book Qantas/Emirates.

 

[Lynda2475]

But in your case I would dare say that's all down to your status

But that is going to be the same on any airline, the more status you have the better choice of seats and other benefits - it's hardly unique to Qantas.

Even when I was a lowly bronze a bit of forward planning (and the occasional use of points to secure a better seat) meant I was never stuck right down the back for any QF international fight 0 in fact had exit row 38C on A380 from/to DFW several times.

 

[p--and--t]

The latest few posts show clearly another factor that influences opinions on airlines expressed on AFF and another reason why one persons impressions and expectations are not those of other flyers.

While I do accumulate a lot of points they are mainly through CC usage etc.

Over the years I have spread my flights around so many airlines and over such a period that I enjoy "status" with no-one and experience the "bread and butter" standard service each of the airlines offers.

(Oh, unless QF Bronze is valuable in some way LOL)

 

[MEL_Traveller]

But that is going to be the same on any airline, the more status you have the better choice of seats and other benefits - it's hardly unique to Qantas.

Even when I was a lowly bronze a bit of forward planning (and the occasional use of points to secure a better seat) meant I was never stuck right down the back for any QF international fight 0 in fact had exit row 38C on A380 from/to DFW several times.

This is where I differ in my experiences. With other airlines I still have access to prime seats, just I might have to pay for them. If I want the first row of economy on American Airlines, I can. Or on United. Status might get me those seats for free, but on Qantas they are blocked entirely.

Taking nearly two hours to get hold of someone at the call centre for Qantas - for someone without status - is not something replicated with other airlines. Should that really be a 'beneift'?

On SQ I get outstanding service throughout the cabin - not just if I'm seated in Emerald City, or the first few rows of economy. CX's platinum and gold benefits are a welcome from the CSM and a bottle of water. Quite different to seeing someone getting wines, amenity kits, noise cancelling headphones and PJs.

There are some areas where QF wins - the 6000 point cancellation fee for awards is applied equally to everyone. That's an exception rather than the rule, where for other airlines there can be a (quite expensive) sliding scale dependent on status.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Regarding the discussion upthread where the comment was made that one person's opinion can't be considered representative of the experience... interesting to note that that's exactly what Qantas does. Anyone notice the banner advertising on the internet? Full of quotes from passengers about the 'the best flight we've had' or 'they looked after us fantastically', or 'we got great meals included'. All of these are being held out as representative of what everyone should expect flying QF. If QF gives them that much weight, the OP's must be given equal weight.

 

[stm1sydney]

But that is going to be the same on any airline, the more status you have the better choice of seats and other benefits.

You missed the point of the comment. If you have WP status on airline A and no status on airline B, your personal experience will lead you to form the view that A is better than B even though, objectively and generally, B is better than A. And that is certainly the case for QF, where so many AFFers are LTG or locked in to chasing LTG.

 

[BD1959]

Regarding the discussion upthread where the comment was made that one person's opinion can't be considered representative of the experience...

A slight correction, as the one who called this out: I did not state that one person's opinion could not be considered representative, but that a single one-off experience should not.

Regards,

BD

 

[Borisdog]

Well, I’ve just blown an hour of my life reading all of that and I’ve come to the conclusion that I am clearly a very unique individual in that I’ve never experienced any of the horrific circumstances frequently inflicted by QF on their customers.

It could be that I walk around blind and oblivious most of the time.

I can’t believe just how blessed and lucky I am. In fairness though, I can’t say I’ve had horror stories in other airlines either.