Qantas Plans OneWorld Superterminal at Sydney

[docjames]

This is old news.

This was first discussed in 2011 but was canned.

As recently as last year such was not planned.

Master Plan 2039 - Downloads

# Master Plan 2039 - [Sydney Airport Master Plan 2039](//downloads.ctfassets.net/v228i5y5k0x4/6BdjDg1hDpubx2F8817NrI/597809341db00e0953a2df403a53136c/Sydney_Airport_Master_Plan_2039_F.pdf) - [Sydney Airport Environmental Strategy 2019-2024](//assets.

www.sydneyairport.com.au

This topic usually gets rolled out whenever AJ/QF want everyone to ignore some other issue.

Would be great for QF/OW/EK joint terminal - spanking new terminal, easier connections etc.

Won’t happen in that format due to
- places everyone else at a competitive disadvantage (Current DOM much easier by road than INT)
- cost (who’s paying for it…..)


Shades of the same issue they’ve been in protracted negotiations with PER for some time - and getting nowhere fast.

I’d suggest Western Syd would be a great place to trial “carrier/alliance” terminals (Int and Dom combined). As a “test case” for SYD to move to the same.

Change however will be measured in decades…..if at all.

Great concept, major practicalities / competing interests to placate holding it back from happening.

 

[drron]

Certainly SYD is not going to lose the majority of OW flights seeing this is a thread about QF wanting an OW super terminal. but I can see that there may very well be a market for Western Sydney.
How about DPS flights. Those from western Sydney suburbs may well lead an increase in Bali travel. And quite possibly some other destinations that are a reasonably short flight away.
Plus if there are domestic services from interstate what is the difference flying into western Sydney to connect or to SYD. Probably cheaper flights and overnight hotel.
I can also see VA taking an interest. If there International services are going to be basically to the Asia Pacific region and according to the reports of @jase05 there is going to be space there for a new VA lounge why not.

And finally the train from the new airport will basically be a new line. Likely to be an express service into Sydney or 1 or 2 stops on the way. Looked up the Sydney Train timetable and during the afternoon there is a service from St Marys to Town Hall station every 15 minutes which has 9 scheduled intermediate stops and takes 55 minutes.
Then the new motorway would give a reasonably fast drive into the CBD.

 

[ausfox]

The demographic centre of Melbourne is between Caulfield and Camberwell, in the eastern side of the city compared to the airport being in the north west.
Sydney’s demographic centre is near Rydalmere, on the western side but still closer to SYD than the Badgerys Ck location.

 

[jpp42]

- places everyone else at a competitive disadvantage (Current DOM much easier by road than INT)

Not necessarily, with the new Sydney Gateway under construction and its direct connectivity into the M4 and M8, it will be just as easy to get to either terminal precinct. Yes, the T2/T3 area will still be closer to the City by road, and still therefore important for golden triangle business commuters, but Sydney Gateway changes the game on road access from the west.

 

[docjames]

Not necessarily, with the new Sydney Gateway under construction and its direct connectivity into the M4 and M8, it will be just as easy to get to either terminal precinct. Yes, the T2/T3 area will still be closer to the City by road, and still therefore important for golden triangle business commuters, but Sydney Gateway changes the game on road access from the west.

Agree with access to/from west, but taxi fare to CBD is a measure used in the past as competitively problematic. Not sure that’s fixable other than fixed price fares (which of course screws the taxi drivers) or SYD give a discounted pax rate to the T1 users (hahahahaha, a discount from SYD……).

Illustrates the quagmire.

 

[Lynda2475]

They would need an express train service from SYD to Nancy Bird Walton (has an airport code been assigned yet?) say SYD-Dom, SYD-Int, Central, City Circle, St Mary's - different carriage style with room for luggage not the current Tangara double decker no where for luggage to easily be stowed.

Then would have to change at St Mary's as the new line is metro not heavy rail like the current route to SYD.

Plus slower trains that made some stops at the major interchange stations i.e Stathfield and Paramatta.

 

[jpp42]

They would need an express train service from SYD to Nancy Bird Walton (has an airport code been assigned yet?) say SYD-Dom, SYD-Int, Central, City Circle, St Mary's - different carriage style with room for luggage not the current Tangara double decker no where for luggage trains).

Express service to the city will never be possible per the decisions made in Metro planning. The Metro to St Mary's has shorter platforms so you couldn't even connect it to other metro lines. The best you can hope for is more express service to St Mary's to transfer to the Western Sydney airport metro. The Leppington line may eventually be extended to the Aerotropolis (south of the airport) but never all the way to the terminals.

Re: the IATA code, some time ago there was a mention that it would be SWZ (for Sydney West), but apparently this request to the IATA has been withdrawn. It's not clear if there is a new/different code being requested.

 

[dajop]

At the end of the day a theoretically quicker solution should be an automated people mover that whisks people seamlessly at regularly frequencies straight between the two terminal precincts. There are countless examples from all over the world from places as diverse as KUL, SIN, JFK, ORD, CDG, ZRH, ATL…

 

[Quickstatus]

I'm surprised at how poorly connected Australia is in terms of flights. I mean 2 non-stop routes to Europe? Really?

Last I saw on google maps, Australian is in an area of the world where the rest of the world's population are other continents.
While the world is round, we can correctly say that we are a long way away from anywhere.

 

[Quickstatus]

Sydney proper

where a big chunk of western Sydney population will be closer to the new airport

Sydney’s demographic centre is near Rydalmere

The population centre is near Rydalmere. Sydney is growing laterally
No curfew
Im hoping it will be an excellent well patronised airport.
Much closer for lots of people

This is even though my superfund has singificant stake in SYD and also surrounding land

 

[Lynda2475]

Would be interested in the stats, but I would bet that people living Northshore, East, City, Inner South and Inner west fly more frequently than those living in the Western Suburbs. Also there is no easy connectivity to new airport for those coming down from central coast/Newcastle or up from the Gong.

As long as I can still fly where I need from SYD, I dont really care what they do at Western Sydney, it will never be my preference. I try not to go further west than Strathfield (Homebush if a concert is playing very occasionally Ryde).

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

So is it going to be a HND and NRT type of situation, if they are going to keep the 2 SYD int airports open and running?

 

[Quickstatus]

dont really care what they do at Western Sydney,

That's the perception of a lot of people living east of wherever.
However, if you believe the economists, Western Sydney is actually the 3rd biggest economy in Australia behind Sydney and Melbourne.
There is a lot of money out west

it will never be my preference

In time there may not be a preference. The assumption that SYD-KS will provide all the air travel preferences of Sydney residents will recede as SYD-WS come online.

 

[jase05]

So is it going to be a HND and NRT type of situation, if they are going to keep the 2 SYD int airports open and running?

Yes, both airports will be active

 

[dajop]

Or will it be more of a LHR/LGW situation rather than HND/NRT type of situation (in terms of traffic makeup)?

I can see several full service international carriers running flights at/around midnight like they do out of MEL and BNE (eg. SQ 218, MH128, CX 178 out of MEL)

 

[justinbrett]

At the end of the day a theoretically quicker solution should be an automated people mover that whisks people seamlessly at regularly frequencies straight between the two terminal precincts. There are countless examples from all over the world from places as diverse as KUL, SIN, JFK, ORD, CDG, ZRH, ATL…

To be honest it's probably easier to build that train than to try to re-arrange the terminals.

As long as Australia has outbound passport control there's not a lot to be gained by co-locating the terminals. I get what AJ was thinking - something like BA LHR T5 or AA LAX T4/5 (not TBIT) where you can have all of your flights together with easy connections between I & D flights.

But if we're going to have segregated international departures then you may as well put people into an airside train which runs every 5 minutes between T1 & T2/3.

There's also no reason why QF international check-in couldn't be at T3 with pax transiting to T1 airside.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

There's also no reason why QF international check-in couldn't be at T3 with pax transiting to T1 airside.
Can't have this, because you need to be immi and int security cleared to be airside, and no one is going to pay to have immi and int security at SYD T2/SYD T3.
So, they are happy to whisk people from gate 15 at T3 to T1 open side, and then have immi and int security screening there.
If and when VA decides to move to WSA, maybe the space used by VA at SYD T2 could be the new fangled OWA major departure point for QF and partners.
They could join the end of T3 near gate 1, gate 16/17/18 where QFlink dep and arr from, is closer to T2, thought it was gate 1 that i closer to
SYD T2, and the end of T2, to make T2 their new int departure point, in a few years time, but this is just our/my speculation.
Does this mean that QF is not happy to move to WSA?
Would be a pain in the bum if we have to get out to WSA from KSA or vv.
NRT and HND already now, we have people asking is there enough time.
What would the min time be for transiting between WSA and KSA, if both are kept operational?
+++
The new WSA airport train, will be driverless!
Like the NorthWest LRT now.

 

[Rangalad]

At the end of the day a theoretically quicker solution should be an automated people mover that whisks people seamlessly at regularly frequencies straight between the two terminal precincts. There are countless examples from all over the world from places as diverse as KUL, SIN, JFK, ORD, CDG, ZRH, ATL…

KUL’s air train is about to be decommissioned. Buses will run between the terminals.

 

[justinbrett]

There's also no reason why QF international check-in couldn't be at T3 with pax transiting to T1 airside.
Can't have this, because you need to be immi and int security cleared to be airside, and no one is going to pay to have immi and int security at SYD T2/SYD T3.
So, they are happy to whisk people from gate 15 at T3 to T1 open side, and then have immi and int security screening there.
If and when VA decides to move to WSA, maybe the space used by VA at SYD T2 could be the new fangled OWA major departure point for QF and partners.
They could join the end of T3 near gate 1, gate 16/17/18 where QFlink dep and arr from, is closer to T2, thought it was gate 1 that i closer to
SYD T2, and the end of T2, to make T2 their new int departure point, in a few years time, but this is just our/my speculation.
Does this mean that QF is not happy to move to WSA?
Would be a pain in the bum if we have to get out to WSA from KSA or vv.
NRT and HND already now, we have people asking is there enough time.
What would the min time be for transiting between WSA and KSA, if both are kept operational?
+++
The new WSA airport train, will be driverless!
Like the NorthWest LRT now.

Plenty of airports do this

Just that the train at T1 would drop you off outside passport control, but no reason to re-clear security if terminals use the same standard (different going from I to D where as a rule at most major airports, you have to reclear security).

This whole thread is about making T3 an international capable terminal which would cost a lot more than just this train.

If we're just talking about having a check in facility at T3 for international, they could do that now with the airside bus (but need to reclear security due to the lower standard for domestic) - just wouldn't save any time due to the time it takes to get the bus. But say you flew domestic JQ or Rex (from a small town not served by QF) connecting to international QF, this would be a very handy thing to have.

Does this mean that QF is not happy to move to WSA?

It's not either or. Both VA and QF will fly out of both airports domestically. Think of Western Sydney as a different city like Canberra or Newcastle.

 

[jase05]

Does this mean that QF is not happy to move to WSA?

QF has signed a MOU with WSA.
As mentioned elsewhere, both airports will be fully operational and QF and VA will fly to both