Qantas Project Sunrise goes ahead, 12 new A350-1000s ordered

[justinbrett]

Well QF did have a Rome sale last week and whole the premium cabins seemed very expensive to me (though they almost always do anyway), economy from MEL was "from" $1720 which didn't seem unreasonable as a headline figure.

(Long haul) Premium cabins on all airlines seem way more expensive now than they were pre covid.

Even Y fares to UK/USA are not unreasonable but I haven't seen any sub-1K fares to LAX like you could get before.

 

[dajop]

During 2017/18 I picked up several QF MEL-LHR returns for <$1700 (there was one at about $1480 and I did see it offered at $13xx ). It made a mockery of my refusal to travel long haul Y on the 787 but confirmed my feeling that QF had essentially lost its way as it clearly couldn't sell the value proposition of the Oz to Europe no stop ( yes I know it was one stop from the east coast which may have been their marketing flaw).

If you want see see if there is any premium on the service, the point of comparison would be for PER-LHR and LHR-PER fares not anything that involves a single stop. MEL-LHR is just competing with every other carrier making a stop enroute to LHR.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So strange… looking at the launch pages on the QF website there’s lots of captioning ‘artist impression only, subject to change’.

What’s the point of that? Someone could sue them if the product doesn’t match in 5 years?

 

[Berlin]

So strange… looking at the launch pages on the QF website there’s lots of captioning ‘artist impression only, subject to change’.

What’s the point of that? Someone could sue them if the product doesn’t match in 5 years?

Yea, I've noticed this too. I'd imagine they are still far away from a point when they can make final design decisions, maybe that process hasn't even properly started yet. So they're protecting themselves from future complaints or even lawsuits- maybe more likely from shareholders than customers? Better safe than sorry, I'd imagine.

 

[Tejas]

My impression is that the [East Coast]-PER-LHR flights in 2018/2019 were consistently more expensive than almost every other airline - I wouldn't ascribe much importance to one-offs here and there as travel is restarting.

True. I'm off to LHR in September and the PER- LHR was high on my list - no stopovers means one less country to worry about coved restrictions for example but i could not swing it. i ended up going with SQ - the times worked (leave 23:50, arrive 15:40) and it was cheap ($2600 return, with a week in a hotel in hammersmith).

QF was $1k more and i could not justify it

 

[MooTime]

Ah many projects of the like & in building industry doctor up sexy 3D images these days, interior decorators, architects, it's rather the norm & 'artist impression & subject to change' very standard sidetexts.

would be pretty ordinary to release this type of Ann, 4 cabin classes etc, but no pics or just a 2D floor plan imagine.
It's as much for feedback info as anything else.

 

[Vic]

I haven't done much airfare searching for two years. But I'm confused about claims of being expensive. My impeding german trip I did see business for $5000 return, on skyscanner, with Malaysian and Turkish airlines. (so two stops). Given Covid entry restrictions, I opted for 1 stop at about $7500

 

[Berlin]

Given Covid entry restrictions, I opted for 1 stop at about $7500

Yea, that seems to be pretty correct at the moment, unless you're willing to do more frequent stops or risk flying JAL. Used to be more like 6k if booked well in advance but whatever you do, it's Qantas that's ridiculously expensive ex Australia in J. At least that's what I am seeing.

 

[RichardMEL]

The aircraft cutaway made J look like the current suite design more or less. Frankly I would hope they evolve this product just a bit for these longer legs. It's an OK seat but I feel it is quite tight as well. I am not sure how they can update it, but I would expect some sort of evolution of the current design. I find the seats quite uncomfortable for longer periods at least in the upright position, and a bit boxed in when lying down. That's just me I suppose.

At any rate I wouldn't expect any major innovation in the J cabin at this point, They seem wedded to the Business Suite design even though it's going to be around 10 years old from initial rollout on the 330'2 by the time the 350's come online (which is why I would expect an evolution of the design, but not anything drastically new a la QR or anything like that).

 

[justinbrett]

The aircraft cutaway made J look like the current suite design more or less. Frankly I would hope they evolve this product just a bit for these longer legs. It's an OK seat but I feel it is quite tight as well. I am not sure how they can update it, but I would expect some sort of evolution of the current design. I find the seats quite uncomfortable for longer periods at least in the upright position, and a bit boxed in when lying down. That's just me I suppose.

At any rate I wouldn't expect any major innovation in the J cabin at this point, They seem wedded to the Business Suite design even though it's going to be around 10 years old from initial rollout on the 330'2 by the time the 350's come online (which is why I would expect an evolution of the design, but not anything drastically new a la QR or anything like that).

I don't think details have come out, but ET is saying it's a brand new seat:

The Project Sunrise A350s will debut an all-new business class seat which raises the bar above the well-regarded Business Suite of today's Qantas Boeing 787s, Airbus A330s and A380 superjumbos.

While Qantas has yet to share full details of the A350 Business Suites, indications are that each business class suite will be surrounded by a higher wall for privacy: it appears that Qantas has opted to forego sliding doors, with those being a privilege of first class alone.

 

[Berlin]

The aircraft cutaway made J look like the current suite design more or less. Frankly I would hope they evolve this product just a bit for these longer legs. It's an OK seat but I feel it is quite tight as well. I am not sure how they can update it, but I would expect some sort of evolution of the current design. I find the seats quite uncomfortable for longer periods at least in the upright position, and a bit boxed in when lying down. That's just me I suppose.

At any rate I wouldn't expect any major innovation in the J cabin at this point, They seem wedded to the Business Suite design

I'm with you and the main problem is that it's NOT A SUITE. Qantas made up with Marketing lie and people keep using the terms but it's precisely NOT a suite. Qatar has suites on some planes. Qantas does not. Not even the F swivel seat, as comfortable as it is, qualifies as a "suite" in my eyes. Qantas' J product is a run of the mill business class seat these days and not even a particularly comfortable on in my eyes.

Even Fiji Airways is lightyears ahead on their A350 (granted, that's only two airplanes). Definitely plenty of room for improvement for Qantas though those initial renderings indeed don't look like it. Now- those first class seats look pretty neat though quite cramped from what we can see in the renderings. And what's that nonsense with a First class middle seat that doesn't have a window. Really, I mean really really?

And not that anyone understands me wrong here- I am actually excited about the announcement and can't wait to try it out (once Paris and/or Frankfurt goes online- no issue with stopping in the LAX on the way to New York and zero interest in coughpy Heathrow). But a suite, that J seat is most certainly not.

 

[Melburnian1]

Yea, that seems to be pretty correct at the moment, unless you're willing to do more frequent stops or risk flying JAL. Used to be more like 6k if booked well in advance but whatever you do, it's Qantas that's ridiculously expensive ex Australia in J. At least that's what I am seeing.

Good point, as unless I've missed it, Japan hasn't yet announced 'general reopening' for tourists.

 

[Danger]

I don't think details have come out, but ET is saying it's a brand new seat:

The Project Sunrise A350s will debut an all-new business class seat which raises the bar above the well-regarded Business Suite of today's Qantas Boeing 787s, Airbus A330s and A380 superjumbos.

While Qantas has yet to share full details of the A350 Business Suites, indications are that each business class suite will be surrounded by a higher wall for privacy: it appears that Qantas has opted to forego sliding doors, with those being a privilege of first class alone.

"Raises the bar"? "Well-regarded?" "Business Suite"? ET drinking the Qantas Kool-Aid again.

 

[RichardMEL]

I don't think details have come out, but ET is saying it's a brand new seat:

The Project Sunrise A350s will debut an all-new business class seat which raises the bar above the well-regarded Business Suite of today's Qantas Boeing 787s, Airbus A330s and A380 superjumbos.

While Qantas has yet to share full details of the A350 Business Suites, indications are that each business class suite will be surrounded by a higher wall for privacy: it appears that Qantas has opted to forego sliding doors, with those being a privilege of first class alone.

ah my bad, I missed that. thank you.

I stand corrected and good news !

 

[RichardMEL]

QF's J "suite" was reasonably good when it made its debut imo, but that was a long time ago in seat design and generations, and now we have QSuites, the latest iterations of SQ's product, the AY "doesn't recline" J couch seat (which I can't quite get my head around despite seeing reviews lol but am keen to try) and even BA's newish J seat. All overtaken QF so they do need to up their game imo, specially for such ULH ops.

We shall see as time rolls on, but they'd need to make a decision on this and to finalise the F design probably in the next year at most - because certification, production and delivery etc all take quite some time to implement.

 

[Mzungu]

Spoiler: We can treat Qantas in this thread with the same contempt as they treat their passengers. - lots

Given what Qantas promises and doesn't deliver, calling out this Sunrise PR thing is pretty well in the ball park.

I love your thinking. Nasty little airline with a nasty little CEO.

 

[Mattg]

Are the J seats just the same as the currently used J seats? I couldn't see much difference.

I'm told the J seats will have sliding doors, although you can't really tell that from the artist's impression.

Looking at the picture, if you look closely the J seat pairs in the middle section are staggered in a different way, with every second row having seats at the aisles and seats directly beside each other in every other row. This is the same as the J configuration on aircraft like the EK A380 or IB A340 etc.

 

[downgraded]

I'm told the J seats will have sliding doors, although you can't really tell that from the artist's impression.

Looking at the picture, if you look closely the J seat pairs in the middle section are staggered in a different way, with every second row having seats at the aisles and seats directly beside each other in every other row. This is the same as the J configuration on aircraft like the EK A380 or IB A340 etc.

What is this fixation with doors in J? I can't think of anything worse than spending 20hours slumbered in a coffin with the lid off and anyone passing peering in to see who the deceased is.

 

[Berlin]

What is this fixation with doors in J? I can't think of anything worse than spending 20hours slumbered in a coffin with the lid off and anyone passing peering in to see who the deceased is.

Makes it what I call a proper "suite" with full privacy from all the other folks (to put it nicely) on the same plane. Love it when implemented well, e.g. on Qatar's Qsuites or EK First class (and others which I am yet to try). So way more than a gimmick imho- changes the hole game to tru "privacy".

 

[Mattg]

What is this fixation with doors in J? I can't think of anything worse than spending 20hours slumbered in a coffin with the lid off and anyone passing peering in to see who the deceased is.

You're not obliged to close the doors if you don't like them.