Qantas slashing jobs and possibly selling FF program?

[Aussie_flyer]

Except that QF now only gets the pax between SYD/MEL-DXB, unless the pax is going to LHR. EK picks up the rest. In the past, QF gets basically all AU-SIN/BKK/HKG-LHR. So in terms of time speng on QF (and I would assume revenue would be somewhat related to that?), QF would need tons more pax doing the EK route just to receive as much revenue as it used to.

Yes but Qantas international was losing a lot of money flying to london via 3 cities despite there being more revenue.

 

[Isochronous]

Except that QF now only gets the pax between SYD/MEL-DXB, unless the pax is going to LHR. EK picks up the rest. In the past, QF gets basically all AU-SIN/BKK/HKG-LHR. So in terms of time speng on QF (and I would assume revenue would be somewhat related to that?), QF would need tons more pax doing the EK route just to receive as much revenue as it used to.

QF gets revenue on all the codeshares from DXB to non QF LHR destinations though. Before the argument is people would book CX/SQ to go one-stop to say Madrid or Paris - now they can use a QF flight to DXB and then a QF codeshare DXB-CDG, for example.

 

[OATEK]

Except that QF now only gets the pax between SYD/MEL-DXB, unless the pax is going to LHR. EK picks up the rest. In the past, QF gets basically all AU-SIN/BKK/HKG-LHR. So in terms of time speng on QF (and I would assume revenue would be somewhat related to that?), QF would need tons more pax doing the EK route just to receive as much revenue as it used to.

This would suggest QF could do just as well terminating in DXB, and using code-shares onwards. Save them flying into LHR as well.

 

[markis10]

Except that QF now only gets the pax between SYD/MEL-DXB, unless the pax is going to LHR. EK picks up the rest. In the past, QF gets basically all AU-SIN/BKK/HKG-LHR. So in terms of time speng on QF (and I would assume revenue would be somewhat related to that?), QF would need tons more pax doing the EK route just to receive as much revenue as it used to.

Sounds good in theory, in practice there has been little change in numbers with the exception of Singapore which would appear to be down 20%, the difference between this years September figures and last years September figures is surprisingly small and the Singapore/German loss has been offset by the DXB numbers while LHR is consistent:

[TABLE="width: 576"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Inbound[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Outbound[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Scheduled Operator[/TD]
[TD]Country to/from[/TD]
[TD]Passengers[/TD]
[TD]Freight[/TD]
[TD]Mail[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Passengers[/TD]
[TD]Freight[/TD]
[TD]Mail[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Sep-13[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD](tonnes)[/TD]
[TD](tonnes)[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD](tonnes)[/TD]
[TD](tonnes)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Hong Kong (SAR)[/TD]
[TD] 23 111[/TD]
[TD] 1 251.3[/TD]
[TD] 14.6[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 23 222[/TD]
[TD] 489.8[/TD]
[TD] 25.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Indonesia[/TD]
[TD] 3 706[/TD]
[TD] 155.6[/TD]
[TD] 0.1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 3 691[/TD]
[TD] 60.9[/TD]
[TD] 1.8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Japan[/TD]
[TD] 7 832[/TD]
[TD] 68.0[/TD]
[TD] 42.2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 9 761[/TD]
[TD] 152.8[/TD]
[TD] 48.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Kazakhstan[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD] 312.8[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Macau[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]..[/TD]
[TD] 12.0[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]New Caledonia[/TD]
[TD] 2 073[/TD]
[TD] 5.1[/TD]
[TD] 0.2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 2 059[/TD]
[TD] 28.0[/TD]
[TD] 1.1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]New Zealand[/TD]
[TD] 43 669[/TD]
[TD] 666.8[/TD]
[TD] 3.0[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 47 405[/TD]
[TD] 922.1[/TD]
[TD] 129.2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Papua New Guinea[/TD]
[TD] 2 225[/TD]
[TD] 7.7[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 2 370[/TD]
[TD] 65.6[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Philippines[/TD]
[TD] 3 381[/TD]
[TD] 28.2[/TD]
[TD] 0.9[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 3 672[/TD]
[TD] 48.7[/TD]
[TD] 1.3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Singapore[/TD]
[TD] 34 194[/TD]
[TD] 1 103.2[/TD]
[TD] 64.8[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 33 502[/TD]
[TD] 838.8[/TD]
[TD] 48.9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]South Africa[/TD]
[TD] 8 250[/TD]
[TD] 103.1[/TD]
[TD] 6.7[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 8 014[/TD]
[TD] 62.6[/TD]
[TD] 7.9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Thailand[/TD]
[TD] 6 756[/TD]
[TD] 205.7[/TD]
[TD] 67.2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 6 057[/TD]
[TD] 60.8[/TD]
[TD] 10.4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]UK[/TD]
[TD] 12 579[/TD]
[TD] 461.5[/TD]
[TD] 47.4[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 13 759[/TD]
[TD] 70.2[/TD]
[TD] 117.8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]United Arab Emirates[/TD]
[TD] 11 874[/TD]
[TD] 38.1[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 9 395[/TD]
[TD] 129.1[/TD]
[TD] 12.8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]USA[/TD]
[TD] 52 899[/TD]
[TD] 2 013.1[/TD]
[TD] 197.3[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 57 432[/TD]
[TD] 260.5[/TD]
[TD] 98.9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Qantas Airways[/TD]
[TD]ALL SERVICES[/TD]
[TD] 222 826[/TD]
[TD] 6 705.9[/TD]
[TD] 462.7[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 231 511[/TD]
[TD] 3 613.7[/TD]
[TD] 526.6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Sep-12[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Qantas Airways[/TD]
[TD]Germany[/TD]
[TD] 3 949[/TD]
[TD] 120.8[/TD]
[TD] 27.3[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 3 569[/TD]
[TD] 8.2[/TD]
[TD] 34.6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Hong Kong (SAR)[/TD]
[TD] 24 820[/TD]
[TD] 1 509.5[/TD]
[TD] 26.2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 22 287[/TD]
[TD] 518.9[/TD]
[TD] 25.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Indonesia[/TD]
[TD] 2 553[/TD]
[TD] 86.5[/TD]
[TD] 0.2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 3 013[/TD]
[TD] 48.9[/TD]
[TD] 1.4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Japan[/TD]
[TD] 7 943[/TD]
[TD] 118.4[/TD]
[TD] 25.5[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 9 931[/TD]
[TD] 238.8[/TD]
[TD] 31.9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]New Caledonia[/TD]
[TD] 2 346[/TD]
[TD] 7.2[/TD]
[TD] 0.3[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 2 586[/TD]
[TD] 19.7[/TD]
[TD] 1.3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]New Zealand[/TD]
[TD] 42 830[/TD]
[TD] 846.1[/TD]
[TD] 36.5[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 44 677[/TD]
[TD] 961.1[/TD]
[TD] 149.9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Papua New Guinea[/TD]
[TD] 2 568[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 2 378[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Philippines[/TD]
[TD] 3 154[/TD]
[TD] 102.2[/TD]
[TD] 0.7[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 3 382[/TD]
[TD] 40.1[/TD]
[TD] 1.4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Singapore[/TD]
[TD] 39 479[/TD]
[TD] 1 370.4[/TD]
[TD] 93.4[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 39 586[/TD]
[TD] 1 132.6[/TD]
[TD] 117.2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]South Africa[/TD]
[TD] 8 380[/TD]
[TD] 161.0[/TD]
[TD] 5.8[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 8 430[/TD]
[TD] 73.9[/TD]
[TD] 7.4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Thailand[/TD]
[TD] 6 785[/TD]
[TD] 220.3[/TD]
[TD] 91.8[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 6 617[/TD]
[TD] 97.2[/TD]
[TD] 12.9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]UK[/TD]
[TD] 12 280[/TD]
[TD] 408.8[/TD]
[TD] 27.1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 11 871[/TD]
[TD] 41.0[/TD]
[TD] 80.8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]USA[/TD]
[TD] 51 149[/TD]
[TD] 2 170.1[/TD]
[TD] 249.1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 57 343[/TD]
[TD] 283.1[/TD]
[TD] 108.3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Qantas Airways[/TD]
[TD]ALL SERVICES[/TD]
[TD] 217 376[/TD]
[TD] 8 095.9[/TD]
[TD] 617.8[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] 225 866[/TD]
[TD] 3 607.1[/TD]
[TD] 581.8[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[serfty]

MH was also tried - both with RedQ and codeshares - remember who sponsored MH into oneworld.
Whilst HEL is a great airport it still means two stopping from Australia, and AY has nowhere near the connections of EK
...

I was under the impression that this never got off the ground or was tried.

i.e. QF courted MH and sponsored them into *O with the intention for RedQ and codeshares before EK came along with what seemed a better offer (at least to AJ).

 

[dk4]

Except that QF now only gets the pax between SYD/MEL-DXB, unless the pax is going to LHR. EK picks up the rest. In the past, QF gets basically all AU-SIN/BKK/HKG-LHR. So in terms of time speng on QF (and I would assume revenue would be somewhat related to that?), QF would need tons more pax doing the EK route just to receive as much revenue as it used to.

I thought that both Joint Service agreements (the former with BA and the current with EK) were 50/50 revenue sharing, regardless of who's metal operates. (So QF all the way to LHR and BA to final destination, would only ever deliver 50% of the revenue to QF, with two stop backtrack operations costs, but now - QF to DBX and EK to final destination, delivers 50% revenue to QF on a much lower cost base.) And didn't QF withdraw from operating 2 of its own aircraft on the kangaroo route as well? (That should be a pretty good cost saving as well, which is an aspect which you have not considered.) It is as much about costs as it is revenue!

 

[dk4]

In terms of MH, I imagine that QF went to them with a deal they couldn't refuse... "give me 50% of your revenue on flights to/from Australia and you get QF's passengers on your flights". But MH refused, presumably thinking they could use oneworld to score that anyway.

When QF went to EK, presumably with the same deal (give me 50% of the revenue from your flights to/from Australia and get access to our customers), EK was smart enough to realise that it was a great offer, and took it.

What QF is most profitable at selling these days, is its customer base, which is why oneworld is a poor strategic fit for QF, as it means they are effectively giving away what they could be selling to other airlines for quite a high price.

 

[DR. LECTER]

When cost cutting gets out of control .......

"Flying us down to Sydney today is 'Timothy' from our Cadet Pilot Program ..... assisting him up front this morning is 'Big Ted' ......... Relax sit back and enjoy the ............"

 

[rotor]

I think one of the biggest things killing QFi is the taxes. An example is my next flight (to Central America) where the difference between QF/AA and DL was $700 - all in taxes!

The base airfare was identical - Qantas fare made up of 30% tax, Delta fare 11%.

I don't know what taxes make up this difference, but maybe that's the avenue QF should be pursuing, rather than ludicrously suggesting they guarantee debt?

 

[Mal]

Tax? Pfft. Yes some of it is, but the difference is pure profit disguised as a fuel surcharge.

 

[seritonin]

This would suggest QF could do just as well terminating in DXB, and using code-shares onwards. Save them flying into LHR as well.

If QF gives up their slots at LHR, EK would take them in a heartbeat. They have 5 and desperate for more. If the partnership goes south, QF would never get them back..

 

[Isochronous]

If QF gives up their slots at LHR, EK would take them in a heartbeat. They have 5 and desperate for more. If the partnership goes south, QF would never get them back..

QF already have 2 slots on lease to BA - I wonder when that lease expires and what the plan is for them.

 

[elbarto]

In terms of MH, I imagine that QF went to them with a deal they couldn't refuse... "give me 50% of your revenue on flights to/from Australia and you get QF's passengers on your flights". But MH refused, presumably thinking they could use oneworld to score that anyway.

When QF went to EK, presumably with the same deal (give me 50% of the revenue from your flights to/from Australia and get access to our customers), EK was smart enough to realise that it was a great offer, and took it.

What QF is most profitable at selling these days, is its customer base, which is why oneworld is a poor strategic fit for QF, as it means they are effectively giving away what they could be selling to other airlines for quite a high price.

More like MH wanted their cake and to eat it too. MH probably wanted QF to put in the larger portion of capital while they kept the lion share of any profits or siphoned it off to line their own pockets. MH management is the old boys club and those with expertise and competence need not apply.

Also, I believe that EK approached QF about a partnership.

 

[NFF]

I hope Qantas can pull through.

 

[docjames]

QF already have 2 slots on lease to BA - I wonder when that lease expires and what the plan is for them.

Lease them to the highest bidder would be my guess.

EK will be the highest bidder.

 

[777]

MH management is the old boys club and those with expertise and competence need not apply.

No risk of that. It was Qantas under AJ they were talking to.

 

[maninblack]

Boards are interesting creatures. Only three members of the current QF board outside of AJ has any experience in the Airline, Travel, Aviation or even any closely related industry and these seem to have been less than stellar performing operations. (and quite some time ago)

 

[markis10]

Boards are interesting creatures. Only three members of the current QF board outside of AJ has any experience in the Airline, Travel, Aviation or even any closely related industry and these seem to have been less than stellar performing operations. (and quite some time ago)

Bringing America West out of Bankruptcy is what I would call a stellar performance as one example, not to mention CEO of AWAS during its stellar years is another, on balance I think the board is very well credentialed when it comes to both Aviation and Enterprise expertise, James Strongs shoes would have been hard to fill and I do feel his expertise is sorely missed.

 

[willjd]

Maybe i have watched too many "Undercover Boss" episodes BUT.....
As i noted in another forum maybe its time for AJ and others to get out into other carriers offerings so they can see for themselves what the competition is offering? On these forums you read about the better options in every flying class (PE debatable) on other airlines so maybe its time they spent a week sampling other airlines offerings to see why QF is no longer seen as the carrier of choice for some.

They should sample each airlines
- Website
- Check in process / seat selection
- Lounge offerings
- In flight product
- Arrival procedures.

I am sure QF has people already doing this but i really feel that AJ and others need to see for themselves where the competition is at. Maybe it will be an eye opener, maybe not.

 

[daturtle]

Maybe i have watched too many "Undercover Boss" episodes BUT.....
As i noted in another forum maybe its time for AJ and others to get out into other carriers offerings so they can see for themselves what the competition is offering? On these forums you read about the better options in every flying class (PE debatable) on other airlines so maybe its time they spent a week sampling other airlines offerings to see why QF is no longer seen as the carrier of choice for some.

They should sample each airlines
- Website
- Check in process / seat selection
- Lounge offerings
- In flight product
- Arrival procedures.

I am sure QF has people already doing this but i really feel that AJ and others need to see for themselves where the competition is at. Maybe it will be an eye opener, maybe not.

If they need someone to go around sampling each airline's first class experience, I'll grudgingly accept the offer...

I'm more surprised that the outlook became so bleak since the start of the financial year with no one noticing until this week. Must have been able to see it coming a few months ago surely?