Qantas - Sorry But I Am Over You

[JessicaTam]

Is that right? I think it's been a very good debate from both sides of the fence.

P.S. Every one is entitled to an opinion and just because you don't agree with that opinion does not make the opinion wrong or bigoted.

P.P.S. Please tell me what wine has to do with travel to deserve a separate forum?

There's no need for a debate. I don't need anyone to dictate to me what words I use in my relationship. In fact I don't anyone to dictate to me how to refer to my loved ones in public either.

Let's leave it a that.

So just to clarify @JohnK, Can we or can we not have an opinion?

 

[JohnK]

So just to clarify @JohnK, Can we or can we not have an opinion?

You're entitled to an opinion. You can't tell me what is and isn't acceptable to say, in my home or in public.

 

[JessicaTam]

You're entitled to an opinion. You can't tell me what is and isn't acceptable to say, in my home or in public.

So I can have an opinion on what is and isn't acceptable to say, in my home or in public. I just can't tell you what my opinion is?

 

[JohnK]

So I can have an opinion on what is and isn't acceptable to say, in my home or in public. I just can't tell you what my opinion is?

You can have whatever opinion you wish.

 

[tgh]

Hilarious conversation….

 

[ALH]

It’s situational as far as I’m concerned.

I regularly call (and have done so for 40 years) my transgender and homosexual friends: Darling, Pet, Sailor, Honky Tonks, Princess etc. If any of them were ever uncomfortable or offended or asked me to stop, I would do so immediately.

By the same token, I’ve sometimes been offended with the tone of the odd creepy guy calling me Love or Darling and have asked them to stop. Mostly I’m happy to be called darling or love.

 

[mannej]

It’s situational as far as I’m concerned.

This - and this is the murky line that many struggle with. Some will not find comments such as love/honey as sexist or offensive (the same goes for comments relating to one's heritage, some don't mind labels such as Wog etc, but others may), but others will.

The issue IMHO is once a person is asked to stop, and they continue on without amending their language.

 

[OATEK]

So I can have an opinion on what is and isn't acceptable to say, in my home or in public. I just can't tell you what my opinion is?

I would have thought that JohnK is saying he is the arbiter of what he should or should not say in his house, but I don't read in that response that he is saying what you could say in yours, only that whatever others say his opinion us unlikely to change (which I must say is the default position of most people I know who have stood by their opinions for most of their lives).

I am sure most of us when we visit someone that we generally tend to be on our best behaviour and look for signs as to how we should behave to ensure we do not offend our host(s) by pushing our different opinions unless openly invited to do so (which was a very common feature in the '60s where no party was considered successful unless a decent conflict of opinion had been expressed over music, war, sex, drugs, politics etc).

My family makes lots of jokes about our shared heritage (Aboriginal, Cornish (not to be confused with English), German/Russian, Portuguese and a few other bits thrown in). We have developed a shared understanding of those limits and no doubt say things that others outside our group might find offensive taken out of our family context but are accepted within the group as humorous repartee. Those limits I would suggest are infinitely variable depending on the circumstances and individuals involved.

I am sure the variations on a shared understanding of the limits between family and close associates, and those that should be adhered to in public or workplaces, are broadly understood and applied by most. But as soon as anyone suggests there is a model language that meets all circumstances I am bound to say phooey. As many have said, react to anyone who offends, and if they continue to offend, pursue it, although in my experience few do. And if you are seeking to avoid giving offence seek out the preferences of those you are interacting with rather than lump them in to some common group.

And this is where I have a problem with what was reported about the attempts by QF to propose that there is a common language that avoids offence. You might reduce offence to some and increase it to others, rather than learn to adapt your language to your audience.

 

[tgh]

Lots of wise and rational words arriving, good to read.
Proponents of social revolution seek to impose an engineered system of language that supports a modelled social concept(social engineering) that is less tolerant and more restrictive than anything previously seen outside of other extreme social structures like communism and fascism.

 

[Deleted member]

It’s situational as far as I’m concerned.

I regularly call (and have done so for 40 years) my transgender and homosexual friends: Darling, Pet, Sailor, Honky Tonks, Princess etc. If any of them were ever uncomfortable or offended or asked me to stop, I would do so immediately.

By the same token, I’ve sometimes been offended with the tone of the odd creepy guy calling me Love or Darling and have asked them to stop. Mostly I’m happy to be called darling or love.

Thanks pet !

 

[JohnK]

I would have thought that JohnK is saying he is the arbiter of what he should or should not say in his house, but I don't read in that response that he is saying what you could say in yours, only that whatever others say his opinion us unlikely to change (which I must say is the default position of most people I know who have stood by their opinions for most of their lives).

I am saying that I will not be told what I can and can't say in public and people should not look down on someone because they do not agree with their opinion.

I will continue to call my wife "sweetie" and she will continue to call me "darling". I really don't care who feels offended by what we call each other. This should not even come up as a topic to be debated.

 

[N860CR]

I might be the odd one out... but I totally agree with this “use appropriate terms” concept that Qantas are plugging.

I hate nothing more than getting on a flight and having a flight attendant refer to my partner and I as “you boys” (Qantas’ favourite) or “you guys”. I find it very degrading, especially given I am referred to as “Captain” professionally and my partner as “Doctor”.

That said, it’s a rare day that I fly Qantas so it’s not a big issue. Irionically, I find the carriers from less socially progressive places (SQ, CX, QR etc) to have the professionalism to use appropriate titles without creating a whole public song and dance about it.

 

[Pushka]

Well I guess when I’m on a plane I’m not convinced that professional titles are important.

 

[jb747]

Whilst this has generated many pages on many threads...I'm yet to see the original, and wonder at just how widespread its dissemination was.

 

[drron]

I might be the odd one out... but I totally agree with this “use appropriate terms” concept that Qantas are plugging.

I hate nothing more than getting on a flight and having a flight attendant refer to my partner and I as “you boys” (Qantas’ favourite) or “you guys”. I find it very degrading, especially given I am referred to as “Captain” professionally and my partner as “Doctor”.

That said, it’s a rare day that I fly Qantas so it’s not a big issue. Irionically, I find the carriers from less socially progressive places (SQ, CX, QR etc) to have the professionalism to use appropriate titles without creating a whole public song and dance about it.

On the other hand I am delighted at my age if someone calls me boy or young man.

 

[Deleted member]

It's a good read. the objections are interesting. Manus always manifests as "Manu" based on example with "manu" at the beginning. I struggle with the concept that english evolution would not have dropped the u from chairmanu. But then there should be examples in older texts.
french and latin roots are rarely combined - could this be one of the rare examples?

But overall if people what to ignore the meaning of chairman as the manager because it has gender based word on the end, I do not see how replacing it with a word that still has that same word on the end, "chairwoman", or another gender based word, "chairperson", fixes the problem.

Umm manager - is that an example were MANU is not used?



would it become the history of humankind?

I have to agree with your logic.

 

[Hvr]

The case for doing away with gendered language
The case for doing away with gendered language just like Qantas did recently

Have you ever stopped to consider the words we chose to make people feel included or worse, invisible?

Qantas recently launched an initiative asking staff to avoid using gendered language such as "mum" and "dad" in favour of gender-neutral terms such as "parents".

.....

Dr Tatman said the English language was changing in favour of more gender-neutral words in general, including a return to an older use of the word they.

"Back in the 16th century it was commonplace in English for the word 'they' just to be a pronoun that could refer to anyone in a gender nonspecific fashion and that's making a comeback now."

Some interesting comments about how language affects and excludes people.

 

[wandering_fred]

English is relatively one sided when it comes to gender. I suspect the people presently disturbed by the English pronoun usage are even more offended by Spanish or French........................ I wonder those languages will handle 57 varieties of gender.

Just wandering
Fred

 

[Hvr]

A real life example of how a company excluded women.

My plumber told me about a product she uses that starts its instructions with; 'Dear Mr Plumber'.

Totally unnecessary and deliberately exclusive, a simple 'Dear Plumber', would accomplish the introductory part of the instructions.

 

[Hvr]

And in the cistern my female plumber is installing was this sticker.

In what way is this acceptable? It deliberately excludes female plumbers.
Or more likely refuses to acknowledge they even exist.