Qantas thanks its most loyal customers

[N860CR]

Has anyone actually received the "gifts" QF offered? WP/SG in this house and no sign of the wine or F Lounge pass.

 

[MatF]

Haven't seen my bottle of wine as yet, though I received my "order" confirmation on the 16/11.

Disagree all you like. My objection was in relation to an earlier quote from someone else that those who don't fly a lot during Nov/Dec are not 'loyal customers.'

Huh? I was responding to this post:

I disagree with this comment. A lot of corporate travellers begin winding down in November and particularly December. I have held WP for several years and in December I will only have 4 QF flights, both requiring the minimum point guarantee due to their distance.

I wish I was winding down in Nov/Dec - for whatever reason (probably people wanting things wrapped up before Christmas), Nov/Dec seem to be my busiest months!

 

[JohnK]

I wonder how long it is supposed to be taking these to post? I had LHR-SIN and SIN-PER on 6/7 Nov, and I've had some bonus points post (which seem to be for these) 2 days ago (Nov 28). I presume they are for those flights and I'm still waiting for the flights on Nov 23 (PER-SIN and SIN-LHR) to still post?

It usually takes ~4 days to post the bonus points so I am afraid you have already received the bonus points for the flights on the 23rd.

And don't forget the promotion did not start until the 16th anyway so your flights on 6/7 November do not count.

 

[simongr]

No indication of an opup tonight for tomorrow's flight and first time I have been in row 5 for a while...

 

[nlagalle]

No indication of an opup tonight for tomorrow's flight and first time I have been in row 5 for a while...

Same here, current checking has my precallocated seat in Y. Oh well

 

[medhead]

No indication of an opup tonight for tomorrow's flight and first time I have been in row 5 for a while...

Same here, current checking has my precallocated seat in Y. Oh well

Me 3. Slightly disappointed. Meh! EF is showing J2 and Y9 down to about L2. 4D with shadow is good.


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

 

[Flashback]

It usually takes ~4 days to post the bonus points so I am afraid you have already received the bonus points for the flights on the 23rd.

And don't forget the promotion did not start until the 16th anyway so your flights on 6/7 November do not count.

Oh yes of course! Good pickup 99

 

[AnonymousCoward]

You make it sound like the upgrade is being given away for free. Any points upgrade requires points, which for all intents and purposes is identical to the cash equivalent. So sure, it might cost Qantas a little in the beginning, but keep in mind that they also reduce their points liability so it seems to be a win-win situation.

Whilst upgrades do cost points, the value that the airline is receiving is no way near a paying pax (e.g. SYD-SIN is about +$4000 for J over Y, but only 100,00 points). Airlines can't run on the revenue from upgraders filling the premium cabins.

 

[Deleted User]

Whilst upgrades do cost points, the value that the airline is receiving is no way near a paying pax (e.g. SYD-SIN is about +$4000 for J over Y, but only 100,00 points). Airlines can't run on the revenue from upgraders filling the premium cabins.

Qantas can't have its cake and eat it too...! If they don't want people to use points for flights or upgrades, then they should not offer them, if they are not compensated enough for people using them for flights / upgrades, then clearly the points cost required is not high enough and needs to be "enhanced"

Also, I believe the Qantas group does very nicely out of QFF program, and they get more $$$ than you think from a points upgrade...not all members redeem on flights & upgrades, some are only intrested in a woolworths card redemption which is effectively "doubling" QFF profit, also by such redemptions, this effectively means that these people subsidise the people that do use their points for the higher redemption such as via flights...

My 2c worth anyway

 

[amaroo]

Qantas can't have its cake and eat it too...! If they don't want people to use points for flights or upgrades, then they should not offer them, if they are not compensated enough for people using them for flights / upgrades, then clearly the points cost required is not high enough and needs to be "enhanced"

Also, I believe the Qantas group does very nicely out of QFF program, and they get more $$$ than you think from a points upgrade...not all members redeem on flights & upgrades, some are only intrested in a woolworths card redemption which is effectively "doubling" QFF profit, also by such redemptions, this effectively means that these people subsidise the people that do use their points for the higher redemption such as via flights...

My 2c worth anyway

Hopefully with todays announcement that VA & SQ alliance has been granted approval from the ACCC, using QF points for upgrades & , F/J bookings will become a whole lot easier

This FF is looking forward to some enhancements that start to deliver that old....we want you to stay feeling.

 

[GeeZed]

Whilst upgrades do cost points, the value that the airline is receiving is no way near a paying pax (e.g. SYD-SIN is about +$4000 for J over Y, but only 100,00 points). Airlines can't run on the revenue from upgraders filling the premium cabins.

Yes. However airline seats have a very specific use by date and after the door closes the revenue earning opportunity on unsold seats is nil .. zero. The fixed costs to operate the flight don't change and in the case of a passenger already booked on that flight the flexible costs have mostly been paid already .. extra food and beverage is maybe really the only additional cost. Upgrading an existing pax for points removes the accrued provision for those points from the balance sheet and improves the bottom line ... yes just a little but it all adds up.

 

[simongr]

Yes. However airline seats have a very specific use by date and after the door closes the revenue earning opportunity on unsold seats is nil .. zero. The fixed costs to operate the flight don't change and in the case of a passenger already booked on that flight the flexible costs have mostly been paid already .. extra food and beverage is maybe really the only additional cost. Upgrading an existing pax for points removes the accrued provision for those points from the balance sheet and improves the bottom line ... yes just a little but it all adds up.

The ability to frequently upgrade using points (or for free) reduces the incentive for some people to pay for premium seats.

 

[Deleted User]

The ability to frequently upgrade using points (or for free) reduces the incentive for some people to pay for premium seats.

If upgrades are not "frequent" enough, this reduces the incentive for people to fund the QFF program, which from memory is highly profitable...

If they lessen the ability of points upgrades, this may dramatically change how people value their points, and in turn question the value of QFF all together

& who rely's on "frequent" + "Free" upgrades anyway ...?

 

[AnonymousCoward]

If they lessen the ability of points upgrades, this may dramatically change how people value their points, and in turn question the value of QFF all together

No one is suggesting that QF is reducing upgade opportunities - please don't confuse the issue.

The issue is whether QF should provide more upgrade opportunities (e.g. space available), and the people complaining that QFF is "not up to scratch" because this option is not available.

Judging by the number of people accumulating FF points, it seems QF can get away with not having to offer more. And the definite downside of offering more upgrade options is an increased incentive not to pay upfront for those premium seats in the first place.

 

[simongr]

If upgrades are not "frequent" enough, this reduces the incentive for people to fund the QFF program, which from memory is highly profitable...

If they lessen the ability of points upgrades, this may dramatically change how people value their points, and in turn question the value of QFF all together

& who rely's on "frequent" + "Free" upgrades anyway ...?

Most of the pax on US carriers in the premium cabins. They do so because upgrades are easy to get and free. Most of those airlines have suffered a form of bankruptcy.

 

[GeeZed]

Judging by the number of people accumulating FF points, it seems QF can get away with not having to offer more. And the definite downside of offering more upgrade options is an increased incentive not to pay upfront for those premium seats in the first place.

Good point and obviously factored into their modus operandi. If I had input I would suggest offering more upgrades to those FFs whose history showed they had never travelled in premium class on a fully paid fare. Chances are their circumstances are such that they are very unlikely to, and it reduces the future liability by extinguishing those points at a cost close to zero (making it a profitable transaction) and it also generates goodwill.

 

[nlagalle]

Yes. However airline seats have a very specific use by date and after the door closes the revenue earning opportunity on unsold seats is nil .. zero. The fixed costs to operate the flight don't change and in the case of a passenger already booked on that flight the flexible costs have mostly been paid already .. extra food and beverage is maybe really the only additional cost. Upgrading an existing pax for points removes the accrued provision for those points from the balance sheet and improves the bottom line ... yes just a little but it all adds up.

Domestically i've had very little issue using points for upgrades, I reckon at least a 90% success rate. Only tried it once internationally and was successful

 

[dfcatch]

Most of the pax on US carriers in the premium cabins. They do so because upgrades are easy to get and free. Most of those airlines have suffered a form of bankruptcy.

Yes but on these airlines many of those pax are on "free space available upgrades" on domestic flights. No one is suggesting that. Or at least I'm not.

Qantas domestically offers ODUs which cost points to fill unsold premium seats which they can no longer obtain cash revenue for.

They may as well receive points revenue for it.

It doesn't devalue the cabin in this respect, because if you want to play the game of never paying a premium fare because you assume you can always get an ODU you are competing against:

1/ Fare paying pax taking the seats;

2/ U class points upgrades taking the seats;

3/ Last minute fare paying pax taking the seats;

4/ Other ODU pax taking the seats;

5/ You eventually running out of points to use to take the seats.

No one is getting a free upgrade here. You use cash or you use points.

And if you want to risk sitting in whY more often than not - you are free to do so.

Also remember that you still need to be on an upgradeable fare to be able to get an ODU. (or did that change - I can't remember).

 

[simongr]

Good point and obviously factored into their modus operandi. If I had input I would suggest offering more upgrades to those FFs whose history showed they had never travelled in premium class on a fully paid fare. Chances are their circumstances are such that they are very unlikely to, and it reduces the future liability by extinguishing those points at a cost close to zero (making it a profitable transaction) and it also generates goodwill.

Conversely someone like me who find out that people who never pay for premium cabins are getting easier access to points upgrades than I am would be pretty pissed off. I am dropping cash in QF's pocket and not getting a benefit.

Yes but on these airlines many of those pax are on "free space available upgrades" on domestic flights. No one is suggesting that. Or at least I'm not.

Actually in the US on AA for example it is not a free space available upgrade it is either a published benefit for EXP that only requires similar fare buckets in the upgraded class (e.g. A class if you have a D class ticket) and is Upgradeable at the point of booking. And sticker upgrades (four for every 10k miles flown) could also be done at any time.

I do agree it can build loyalty but that isn't the only consideration.

QF dont do it and are profitable, US carriers do it and are bankrupt, BA doesn't do it and they are still bankrupt. There are more variables in this equation than perhaps we are all talking about.

 

[dfcatch]

Conversely someone like me who find out that people who never pay for premium cabins are getting easier access to points upgrades than I am would be pretty pissed off. I am dropping cash in QF's pocket and not getting a benefit.



Actually in the US on AA for example it is not a free space available upgrade it is either a published benefit for EXP that only requires similar fare buckets in the upgraded class (e.g. A class if you have a D class ticket) and is Upgradeable at the point of booking. And sticker upgrades (four for every 10k miles flown) could also be done at any time.

I do agree it can build loyalty but that isn't the only consideration.

QF dont do it and are profitable, US carriers do it and are bankrupt, BA doesn't do it and they are still bankrupt. There are more variables in this equation than perhaps we are all talking about.

Thanks for clarifying the AA system. I was being overly simplistic. I agree with you - I don't support the AA system as it does devalue the premium cabin.

But you're right - QF doesn't do this.