Qantas to Close First Class Lounge in Singapore

[BD1959]

I can see where those 787s are going, Singapore; then they can operate the SIN-PER; SIN-ADL; SIN-MEL, SIN-BNE,

I would bet SIN-SYD will stay with Qantas.

All those 787s feeding .... week-end sightseeing in Singapore ...

Wonderingly,

BD

 

[oz_mark]

I can see where those 787s are going, Singapore; then they can operate the SIN-PER;

That would be an upgrade from the A320s they're currently using SIN-PER

 

[Danger]

Presumably if the lounge becomes purely a BA Galleries lounge, it will be open to accommodate BA flights only. Currently BA has three flights a day out of Singapore: to Sydney departing 7.55pm and London at 10.55pm and 11.25pm.

If it's no longer a QF co-lounge it would stand to reason that the hours of the lounge would be designed to fit BA's schedule only. Assuming the opening time of 3pm remains, that would mean, as the timetable stands, QF flights to Sydney, Melbourne, Perth and Brisbane would fall into that window, although the midninight Singapore-Perth departure may revert to the morning which rules out access. This assumes no changes to the timetable but changes have been mooted.

And finally, what about oneworld Emeralds flying Jetstar? If it's purely a BA lounge, there goes access for Emeralds flying on Jetstar (eg. JQ8 to Melbourne, 3K111 to Perth, plus all the 3K intra-Asia flights that, currently, leave post-3pm. Given the indications that the Singapore schedules will be more aligned to meet connections with Jetstar, that'll mean less access again.

So I see this as, certainly, an improvement on the bad news but still not without some big losses for QF Platinums.

 

[atreides]

It's very disappointing. I guess when PER-SIN becomes a JQ only leg, we will only be able use the J Lounge now. Oh wait, I'm not going to stick with QF when that happens.....

 

[Kangol]

I didn't see it mentioned here, but technically it is a "First lounge", not a "First class lounge" - just like every other Int QF lounge. So the argument about whether F services do or do not operate from certain ports is somewhat moot.
They've said it before that whilst F lounges are for F passengers, it just so happens that they are also for WPs/OWEs.

 

[Danger]

I didn't see it mentioned here, but technically it is a "First lounge", not a "First class lounge" - just like every other Int QF lounge. So the argument about whether F services do or do not operate from certain ports is somewhat moot.
They've said it before that whilst F lounges are for F passengers, it just so happens that they are also for WPs/OWEs.

Valid point. It's also quite plausable that the absence of an F lounge would upset CL passengers quite a bit, too.

 

[JohnPhelan]

what about oneworld Emeralds flying Jetstar? If it's purely a BA lounge, there goes access for Emeralds flying on Jetstar.

The cynic in me wonders if the that's the whole point of the change!

 

[ajca]

All those 787s feeding .... week-end sightseeing in Singapore ...

Wonderingly,

BD

Do you mean the 787s flying into Singapore will be painted orange and full of singlet wearing, VB crunching tourists? Or that Singapore is just a tourist destination? (surely the former...)

Singapore is a pretty major global business hub so I would have thought the corporate market for MEL-SIN and SYD-SIN would be quite strong, especially in the premium cabins.

Closing the F lounge is just one more reason to move to SQ - although myself and no doubt many other business travellers already made that move quite some time ago.

If Qantas think that a clapped out A330 with the coughpy Skybed MkIs is going be competitive on these routes with SQ's A380 then they are absolutely dreaming.

 

[BD1959]

Do you mean the 787s flying into Singapore will be painted orange and full of singlet wearing, VB crunching tourists? Or that Singapore is just a tourist destination? (surely the former...)

Singapore is a pretty major global business hub so I would have thought the corporate market for MEL-SIN and SYD-SIN would be quite strong, especially in the premium cabins.

Closing the F lounge is just one more reason to move to SQ - although myself and no doubt many other business travellers already made that move quite some time ago.

If Qantas think that a clapped out A330 with the coughpy Skybed MkIs is going be competitive on these routes with SQ's A380 then they are absolutely dreaming.

I meant that the business model is stll not understood.

AJ stated that the move away from the JSA - and the QF/BA cross-dependence - would allow QF to concentrate on better timings and more frequency into (ports including) Singapore. The question then becomes, if you are moving to a greater frequency, then to what purpose?

Sure, SQ has greater frequency - but then it also has a hub to "feed".

QF - obviously - doesn't have a hub .. in fact it appears to be reducing it's "hub capability" ... I've often wondered why - if the issue for QF is that it is an end-of-line airline, it hasn't used SIN to expand as it's Asian hub previously, both to Europe using 777s and intra-Asia using 330s and competed with SQ head-on. Maybe this was the original idea behind Red-Q which just then started to go in it's own direction.

If QF now is looking to concentrate on SIN as O&D then how will this pay when QF constantly states it cannot match SQ on costs and cannot turn a profit on it's existing routes into SIN (surely if QF are looking to expand services they will maintain an afternoon departure ex Australian east cost)?

So, yes, my facetious response to Bundy Bear's post was that QF must now be targeting VB-totting, singlet wearing weekend tourists to fill those aircraft, regardless of the colour on the tail or whether they're brand new 787s, clapped out 767s or 330s.

Regards,

BD

 

[ajca]

I meant that the business model is stll not understood.

AJ stated that the move away from the JSA - and the QF/BA cross-dependence - would allow QF to concentrate on better timings and more frequency into (ports including) Singapore. The question then becomes, if you are moving to a greater frequency, then to what purpose?

Sure, SQ has greater frequency - but then it also has a hub to "feed".

QF - obviously - doesn't have a hub .. in fact it appears to be reducing it's "hub capability" ... I've often wondered why - if the issue for QF is that it is an end-of-line airline, it hasn't used SIN to expand as it's Asian hub previously, both to Europe using 777s and intra-Asia using 330s and competed with SQ head-on. Maybe this was the original idea behind Red-Q which just then started to go in it's own direction.

I sort of feel like from a strategic perspective QF are right to retreat from Singapore. When you have a competitor like SQ that has a significantly lower operating cost position, presumably lower cost of capital, a significantly better product, far better frequencies, a much bigger and better network with more non-stop connections to far more places... you're pretty much screwed. Seriously. As Jack Welch said, if you don't have a competitive advantage, don't compete.

The idea that Qantas would go into Singapore and compete with SQ head to head was always insane and it is insane now. Even if Qantas or Red-Q or whatever could match SQ's cost advantage (unlikely given SQ's economies of scale), they could never match frequencies, network etc

SQ's owner Temasak has deep pockets - $150b USD. It's hard to imagine a better way for Qantas to destroy shareholder value than go to their home turf and end up in a price war...

 

[N860CR]

I'll be called synical.... But this confirms most of the thoughts as to the future of the company that have existed in the industry for a long time now. Anyone who believed "RedQ" was ever intended to actually exist is, for lack of a better word, naive.

RedQ allowed Qantas to order more A320's for the full service brand that I guarantee will now be deployed to 3K (while at the time led people to believe the company was committed to the full service product). This lounge closure in SIN, along with the general acceptance that the current QF won't operate the 787 (they'll be 9V registered, don't worry!) reaffirms the current managements desire to move into the future with low cost travel in Asia. History has shown that the white folk believe they're superior to those in Asia... But how many times have they shown us wrong! Just look at Jetstar Pacific (and the Australians who were jailed in Vietnam as a result of it). Interesting times!

 

[BD1959]

I sort of feel like from a strategic perspective QF are right to retreat from Singapore.

But according to AJ they're NOT retreating from SIN. From the QF Media release:

But our Australian business customers want better access to Asia, and so do we.
As you know, we have been looking to address this issue.

Qantas will increase dedicated capacity to Singapore, and re-time flights to
Singapore and Hong Kong to enable many more ‘same day’ connections across
Asia.


Maybe I've answered my own question: QF will ferry Business Passengers to SIN so that they can connect to 3K onto the major business centres of Siem Reap and Haikou.

Regards,

BD

 

[cmon0005]

//start far-fetched theory// My prediction is that Kuala Lumpur will become the hub for QF in Asia and QF might leverage off MH joining OW alliance?
Leaving Singapore as a short stopover on the way to KUL(SYD-KUL via SIN), hence closing of the FLounge in SIN?

//end far-fetched theory//

 

[dajop]

But our Australian business customers want better access to Asia, and so do we.
As you know, we have been looking to address this issue.

Qantas will increase dedicated capacity to Singapore, and re-time flights to
Singapore and Hong Kong to enable many more ‘same day’ connections across
Asia.

To decode this
- "increase dedicated capacity to Singapore" = even though we will be using smaller planes, our planes won't be going on to LHR & FRA, so we can sell the whole plane for Singapore origin/destination traffic rather than holding it back for onwards traffic to Europe.
- "re-time flights to Singapore and Hong Kong to enable many more same day connections" = we need to turn the planes around in Singapore, so we will depart from Australia earlier so we can turn the planes around to come back overnight.

 

[Paddy55]

The cynic in me wonders if the that's the whole point of the change!

To tick the Status pax off with least return for QF?

Seriously, which rocket scientist in QF thought this up?

 

[Danger]

To tick the Status pax off with least return for QF?

Seriously, which rocket scientist in QF thought this up?

Well at one point those status passengers had to return a fair bit to Qantas. And what's their choice ex-SIN, particularly with more and more routes being Jetstarised.

If they fly with JQ, at least those passengers are keeping money with the QF group. The alternative is to fly MH to Kuala Lumpur, CX to Hong Kong, CX to BKK, CX to CMB and JL to TYO. All these routes are serviced by JQ but also serviced by fully fledged members of oneworld.

 

[ajca]

Well at one point those status passengers had to return a fair bit to Qantas. And what's their choice ex-SIN, particularly with more and more routes being Jetstarised.

SQ.

Imagine how fully SQ could mess with Qantas by doing a once-off status match for QFF members at the start of next year. Platinum = KF Gold, P1 = PPS

 

[Danger]

SQ.

Sorry, don't get me wrong. I completely agree this is great news for SQ. My point about what choice do passengers have ex-SIN was specifically in regard to QF Platinums in the context of losing the F lounge and what choice they have, as a high status passenger. To put it another way, if you're QF Platinum, why would you not fly with one of the aforementioned oneworld carriers to the ports jointly serviced by JQ/3K, instead of JQ/3K. By doing so, you'll have access to what sounds like will be a BA F lounge (and therefore oneworld benefits apply).

Imagine how fully SQ could mess with Qantas by doing a once-off status match for QFF members at the start of next year. Platinum = KF Gold, P1 = PPS

That would be pure genius on SQ's part, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[zachary.august]

To be really honest I think that cmon005 has a far point. QF could be packing up in Singapore and working with a three hub system globally those being DXB, DFW and KUL. Moving to KUL would allow them access to all of MH's network throughout Asia which they can't get in SIN and refuse to partner with CX in HKG. I would say that to prevent competition on the EK routes they'd code share only on the Asian routes. They could theoretically then operate SYD-KUL-SIN-KUL-SYD services and a flight from Melbourne to KUL and then feed on from there to the rest of Asia. I'd say that they'd probably keep one non stop service from Sydney and Perth, reroute the BNE/MEL/PER flight to KUL and voila Asia is yours.

 

[dajop]

Sorry, don't get me wrong. I completely agree this is great news for SQ. My point about what choice do passengers have ex-SIN was specifically in regard to QF Platinums in the context of losing the F lounge and what choice they have, as a high status passenger. To put it another way, if you're QF Platinum, why would you not fly with one of the aforementioned oneworld carriers to the ports jointly serviced by JQ/3K, instead of JQ/3K. By doing so, you'll have access to what sounds like will be a BA F lounge (and therefore oneworld benefits apply).

The thing is do people really make decisions (outside the SYD/MEL realm) on their flights based on access to F lounges though? I would have thought that most would already be flying aforemetioned oneworld carriers because they are better than flying on 3K/JQ. And if they're not flying the oneworld carriers, they are flying 3K because of other reasons. given that the lounge is shut already for more than half the 3K flights!

To be really honest I think that cmon005 has a far point. QF could be packing up in Singapore and working with a three hub system globally those being DXB, DFW and KUL. Moving to KUL would allow them access to all of MH's network throughout Asia which they can't get in SIN and refuse to partner with CX in HKG.

Trouble with this is that KUL probably doesn't have the origin/destination traffic that either SIN or HKG have. It's not only about connecting onto other cities in Asia, SIN and HKG are economically significant on a global scale as far as cities go, and have a lot of high value traffic relating to banking and finance, that KL has far less of.