Qatar denied extra capacity into Australia

[RooFlyer]

As Joyce said yesterday we already have open skies with the US and with American carriers having unfetted access to our market - and we theirs.

Which is of course completely irrelevant to Qatar asking for more capacity between Australian major port and Qatar. Just one of Alan Joyce’s distractive and irrelevant arguments.

But what did Qatar bring to the table for Australian Carriers - more access to ... Qatar? No one travels there and its a different playing field and one that over 20 carriers fly direct to other points to Europe/Africa etc so its already highly (price) competitive.

More access to Qatar and from there, more access to the rest of the world on a quality airline.

Yes, the fact that there is so much competition already puts the lie to Qantas’ argument that there shouldn’t be more competition. If there is too much capacity then the market will sort itself out and the weaker players will pull out.

So... is that bribery? Of course not, its a part of a commercial agreement.

You should be able to distinguish between a private company’s interactions with another private company ( yours and Qantas), and the government’s interactions with a private company where they make decisions to the commercial advantage or disadvantage of that company.

 

[oz_mark]

God the endless bleating and Qantas bashing has hit new highs. And Jayne Hrdlicka saying fares would drop by 40% is just absurd, a nonesense - and can't be based on any fact/research. As Joyce said yesterday we already have open skies with the US and with American carriers having unfetted access to our market - and we theirs. That makes complete sense. But what did Qatar bring to the table for Australian Carriers - more access to ... Qatar? No one travels there and its a different playing field and one that over 20 carriers fly direct to other points to Europe/Africa etc so its already highly (price) competitive. Also just on the bribery nonense with Government ... I also work for a multinational company and when we moved our travel contract to Qantas - there was a heap of Qantas and Business Class Lounge access provided to our senior staff - and knowing friends who have their travel contract with Virgin - they do the same. So... is that bribery? Of course not, its a part of a commercial agreement. The fact that Chairman's Lounge access is disclosed by MP's and with only 6 lounges - the suggestion that would be enough to stifle competition policy - is again, complete rubbish. Where was this when the US Open Skies agreement was being negotiated?

Not sure it is bribery, but to some people there is a belief that there is a (possibly perceived) conflict of interest. These things happen, but they need to managed appropriately.

 

[pauly7]

Sorry wasn’t having a go, and agree with you completely - just frustrated that politicians don’t get the big picture and the mainstream news is, well you know.

Maybe VA2 should have a sales act placed on them. And Rex. And Bonza . Can you even imagine.

All good I was joking

That is never going to happen…

How on earth do you expect the other airlines to pay for their new planes and expansions if the government places similar restrictions on them like they do Qantas?

Again, if everyone is so worried then all airlines should be treated equally and the Qantas sale act should be rescinded as well. But I can already hear the shrieks if that were to happen

 

[Mickey Mouse]

Layslow seems to have a bit of a pathology with Qatar.

However, on the subject of there being so much capacity already, and Europe being such a trivial market... maybe in QFLand (Sydney), but try telling that to people away from the East Coast...

 

[Jacques Vert]

The Chair of the Enquiry, Jane Hume, was on ABC Breakfast this morning.

She stated that QR had applied for 21 new routes into Australia (not flights, but routes!).

She also stated that Qantas enjoyed an "almost monopoly" position. (Clearly she hasn't heard that REX is now flying from CBR to MEL!)

What hope is there when even the Chair has no idea of the facts?

 

[RooFlyer]

Again, if everyone is so worried then all airlines should be treated equally and the Qantas sale act should be rescinded as well. But I can already hear the shrieks if that were to happen

Poor, poor , Qantas. So restricted in its ability to raise capital by the Qantas Sale Act that it just had to give hundreds of millions of cash back to its shareholders rather than keeping the capital on its balance sheet.

 

[justinbrett]

The Chair of the Enquiry, Jane Hume, was on ABC Breakfast this morning.

She stated that QR had applied for 21 new routes into Australia (not flights, but routes).

Seems MPs are second only to Journos in not getting basic facts right (AFR still saying they applied for 28, not 21)

She also stated that Qantas enjoyed an "almost monopoly" position. (Clearly she hasn't heard that REX is now flying from CBR to MEL!)

What was hilarious was Nine having the Rex Deputy on who said he welcomed competition and that's the only way to bring down prices. Yet every time QF expands to a Rex monopoly route, they cry foul. Not saying I blame them as it's expected for airlines to do this - but quite hypocritical to complain about others doing it.

However, on the subject of there being so much capacity already, and Europe being such a trivial market... maybe in QFLand (Sydney), but try telling that to people away from the East Coast...

Not sure anyone said the market itself was trivial, but it is objectively a small part of the QF network. Sure there is the EK alliance, but as far as I understand, QF doesn't get a cent of EK tickets with EK metal which is the majority; only EK tickets with QF metal (basically just domestic), or QF tickets with EK metal (or AF/KL etc).

These stats are by the marketing carrier - QF does well to the UK (QR not so much), QF 4th place to Europe, QR almost equal first with EK:

 

[pauly7]

The Chair of the Enquiry, Jane Hume, was on ABC Breakfast this morning.

She stated that QR had applied for 21 new routes into Australia (not flights, but routes!).

She also stated that Qantas enjoyed an "almost monopoly" position. (Clearly she hasn't heard that REX is now flying from CBR to MEL!)

What hope is there when even the Chair has no idea of the facts?

Politics does not rely on understanding of the facts.

Neither does journalism

 

[justinbrett]

He has a partner. Reckon she doesn't join him?

Pretty recent partner though; considering the CL membership was given long before he became PM, not that unlikely that when he split up with his wife he elected his son as his +1.

I don't know the CL rules but I imagine members can invite others travelling with them on the day (similar to standard lounge rules), the +1 passes are for them to use when travelling without the principal member.

By all accounts he doesn't fly QF often anyway.

 

[justinbrett]

This is gold :

VA: Qatar would have brought fares down by 40%
Sky: How do you get that figure?
VA: Would you believe 20%?

 

[RooFlyer]

And now the banks (or at least the ANZ CEO) are commenting. The Oz on-line

ANZ boss Shayne Elliott says he is "disturbed" by reports the federal government knocked back Qatar’s request for additional flights in order to protect Qantas profits.

Speaking at the QUT Business Leaders Forum in Brisbane, Mr Elliott said he did not see why the profits of a private company should be protected by the government.

"I thought we believed in the market economy," Mr Elliott said. "I found it a bit troubling."

The Gulf carrier was seeking to operate an extra 21 flights a week into Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne in a bid launched last year and ultimately rejected by the government last month.

Qantas had actively lobbied the government against the proposal, arguing that the additional flights would “distort the market”.

That phrase "actively lobbied" rings a bell

 

[justinbrett]

That phrase "actively lobbied" rings a bell

Mods may as well close the thread again now, save us all some time

 

[anyonebutqantas]

Joyce's latest argument is that essentially Australian carriers (i.e. QF) have no interest in flying to DOH so giving QR more flights to Australia is a one-sided trade. But if QF doesn't want to fly to DOH then it shouldn't have a problem with someone else doing so since it has no interest in competing.

QR should just wet-lease a bunch of planes to VA and then let VA market them as VA international services to DOH from all capitals.

 

[Saab34]

Qatar are generally outspoken and dummy spit when they don’t get what they want.

Interesting they have remained silent. Smart move, sit back and watch everything just fall apart down under.

 

[justinbrett]

QR should just wet-lease a bunch of planes to VA and then let VA market them as VA international services to DOH from all capitals.

They should. In fact, make it a dry lease and employ some Aussies. Nothing stopping them.

 

[RooFlyer]

Interesting they have remained silent.

And declined comment when asked. I hope something's up!

 

[pauly7]

They should. In fact, make it a dry lease and employ some Aussies. Nothing stopping them.

Cough, nothing at all

 

[RooFlyer]

Cough, nothing at all

Cough, except an upcoming IPO, you know? Wonder what a new international route, with leases would do for the forecasts.

Cough

 

[Chicken]

Today on ABC The World Today:
- Flight Centre had opened fire at Qantas
- Canberra Airports said Qantas is cancelling over 10% of flights and they should be fined
- the Commonwealth government admitting that they want to protect Qantas means they may have breached Chicago Convention section 44 which says that airlines should be treated equally.

 

[Saab34]

They should. In fact, make it a dry lease and employ some Aussies. Nothing stopping them.

Perhaps after if QR took a stake, doubtful in the lead up to a IPO. Virgin lost a bucketload on HKG routes, who knows how they would put another new LH tilt to investors.

Perhaps post QR taking a stake. However, so many questions to be asked around such a plan, they have missed the widebody ordering window during bankruptcy, they do seem now firm on a 737 operation only. Then the question in regards to QR, can they spare some 789s in the fleet to lease to Virgin? ACCC would need to approve any deal with QR involving coordinating pricing and so on.

So quite a bit involved getting Virgin a 787 operation up and running, would be multiple years away, and after a float assuming QR took a stake. Would be late 2025 into 2026 at the earliest.