Qatar denied extra capacity into Australia

[justinbrett]

Frankly this topic is going in circles

From the SMH:
Transport Minister Catherine King’s decision to reject Qatar’s bid has been criticised by key figures from the aviation and tourism sectors – including Sydney Airport’s outgoing chief and Flight Centre boss Graham ‘Skroo’ Turner – who say the federal government has failed to clarify why the application was rejected on “national interest” grounds.
Prime Minister Anthony Albanese on Tuesday defended King’s decision, describing it as “business as usual”. “There’s nothing unusual about air services agreements that are agreements which are country to country,” Albanese told ABC radio in WA.
“When I was transport minister, there were a range of proposals put forward that weren’t agreed to because ministers need to make the assessments at the time.”

Assistant minister for competition Andrew Leigh has also come to King’s defence. Speaking at the National Press Club on Tuesday, Leigh played a straight bat when pressed on the definition of “national interest”.
“There was no single decisive factor, she [King] made it in the national interest. I don’t have anything to add to that,” he said.
However, the Labor frontbencher added that he hoped to see greater competition in the aviation sector to drive down airfares.
“I would hope to see more airline competition in Australia,” he said.

Virgin boss rubbishes Joyce’s Qatar claims while PM defends transport minister

The airline’s chief executive Jayne Hrdlicka says adding more seats will push down sky-high overseas airfares – increasing demand for international travel.

www.smh.com.au

And then the VA CEO saying "Qatar today has 23 per cent, and it would add maybe 2 per cent share to their total capacity between here and Europe by adding these additional services.". Which kinds of kills the "drop fares by 40%" argument.

 

[jakeseven7]

Cough, nothing at all

Zero chance. Bain can’t even sell VA2 without a flailing international division. A JV with Qatar could be amusing to watch though. That could really ‘lower airfares by 40 / 20 % ‘

 

[justinbrett]

- the Commonwealth government admitting that they want to protect Qantas means they may have breached Chicago Convention section 44 which says that airlines should be treated equally.

That was a stupid comment on the ABC.

A - Article 44 is an "Aims & Objectives" article, so not legally enforceable
B - It does not say "airlines should be treated equally". He quoted "Section 44g" (it's actually article 44- so good start!) "avoid discrimination of contracting states".
C - Airlines are not treated equally. If they were, there would be no bilateral treaties anywhere.

 

[Chicken]

That was a stupid comment on the ABC.

A - Article 44 is an "Aims & Objectives" article, so not legally enforceable
B - It does not say "airlines should be treated equally". He quoted "Section 44g" (it's actually article 44- so good start!) "avoid discrimination of contracting states".
C - Airlines are not treated equally. If they were, there would be no bilateral treaties anywhere.

The "stupid" comments are not from the ABC reporter. They are comments from Dr Ian Douglas from Uni of Wollongong, former chair of International Air Services Commission of the Australian Government.

 

[justinbrett]

They are not comments from the ABC. They are comments from Dr Ian Douglas from Uni of Wollongong, former chair of International Air Services Commission of the Australian Government.

Yes, I said on, not from.

I know who he is, and I don't know why he misquoted the article. He should know that backwards.

He only recently left the position, and given it's been reported the department recommended the approval, I'd say he's a bit sore the government went against their advice.

 

[Saab34]

Amazed that EY has not doubled capacity into MEL/SYD and launched PER. Perhaps short on aircraft.

 

[clifford]

Well at least I can clearly see who the <redacted> Qantas people are (did I need any further evidence?).

 

[SCM]

I think everyone is short on aircraft - that's the problem, we are lucky to have SQ so close and loaded up on 350s and refurbished 380s, they are the best hope for running more services.

What I wonder is, why can't QR just wet lease aircraft and crew to VA the same way the QF did with AY? QR can figure out lounge arrangements in the same way, buy lounge passes if need be - not like they care about the trivial cost of doing that, and in any case Doha lounges would be 10x better than anything back home.

All VA would have to do is put some more staff to international, and run as many flights as you want.

Also, does VA still have international gates in AU in SYD/MEL, or are those gone?

 

[stm1sydney]

Qatar are generally outspoken and dummy spit when they don’t get what they want.

Interesting they have remained silent. Smart move, sit back and watch everything just fall apart down under.

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." Napoleon Bonaparte

 

[Pushka]

Qatar are generally outspoken and dummy spit when they don’t get what they want.

Interesting they have remained silent. Smart move, sit back and watch everything just fall apart down under.

Sometimes it's best to say nothing and let the others blather on.

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." Napoleon Bonaparte

That's the expression I was trying to think of when I started drafting the response above, yesterday. Much better.

 

[pauly7]

What I wonder is, why can't QR just wet lease aircraft and crew to VA the same way the QF did with AY? QR can figure out lounge arrangements in the same way, buy lounge passes if need be - not like they care about the trivial cost of doing that, and in any case Doha lounges would be 10x better than anything back home.

Some good ideas there and it’s a free world (almost) they could do lots of things. Many reasons why it’s not being done though I expect.

 

[justinbrett]

- Canberra Airports said Qantas is cancelling over 10% of flights and they should be fined

Forgot to comment on this earlier. This is only relevant to the topic to the extent previous posts spoke about QF cancellations (so mods, feel free to move all to another thread if required). Moral of the story, pointing to QF cancellations as an argument against the Qatar decision is ludicrous given their relative performance. It's also amazing these noteworthy stats haven't made the mainstream media - they'd be front and centre if it was reversed.

This is an unusual stat for CBR-SYD, in that neither QF or VA mainline flies the route. It's also complicated by VA using an external provider (Link) which probably makes it less of a target for cancellations when they need to conserve slots.

For the golden triangle (which has many more seats than SYD-CBR), VA's cancellation rate was absolutely shocking in Jul - with 10.5% and 9.9% on the two SYD routes, and 8% on the BNE-MEL route. The overall cancellation rate for VA was 5.3% (VARA was 12.7), while QF was 3.6% (QLK was 4%) and JQ with the best result of the two groups at 3.3%. QF also had high cancellations on MEL-SYD (8%), but not the other two routes.

VA mainline's OTP is the lowest of any individual airline, at 59.2%. (QF is 68.8%).

https://www.bitre.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/BITRE_OTP_Report_July_2023.pdf

 

[OZDUCK]

I think everyone is short on aircraft - that's the problem, we are lucky to have SQ so close and loaded up on 350s and refurbished 380s, they are the best hope for running more services.

What I wonder is, why can't QR just wet lease aircraft and crew to VA the same way the QF did with AY? QR can figure out lounge arrangements in the same way, buy lounge passes if need be - not like they care about the trivial cost of doing that, and in any case Doha lounges would be 10x better than anything back home.

All VA would have to do is put some more staff to international, and run as many flights as you want.

Also, does VA still have international gates in AU in SYD/MEL, or are those gone?

I believe QR are short of aircraft themselves - presumably due to the argy bargy over the A350 paint issues. They are leasing some Oman Air aircraft - hence the loss of my flight on Oman Air.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Do we think Qatar is really that desperate to stick it to Qantas/AU government? I don't think so. Maybe if the VA 777 fleet and crew were still around they might have some options.

The easiest way for them to play games if they really wanted to cost themselves money would be to throw open the doors on every seat on every aircraft to QFF members as award tickets. That would surely create some interesting discussions. But there's many reasons why that isn't going to happen either.

 

[jakeseven7]

Do we think Qatar is really that desperate to stick it to Qantas/AU government? I don't think so.

Agree.

 

[RooFlyer]

VA gets another run, as does JQ, REX, BNE and MEL now! What was the question again?

 

[Must...Fly!]

VA gets another run, as does JQ, REX, BNE and MEL now! What was the question again?

Friend of mine told me yesterday if the government stopped Qantas and Virgin hoarding slots, none of this scandal would've ever happened.

There's quite a mix in level of understanding of what's actually happened here.

 

[justinbrett]

VA gets another run, as does JQ, REX, BNE and MEL now! What was the question again?

90% of this thread is OT

Est quod id est.

 

[Gold Member]

VA gets another run, as does JQ, REX, BNE and MEL now! What was the question again?

Obfuscation ala AJ.

 

[Gold Member]

A poignant and accurate report from an Investment Manager that I follow on Livewire Markets. I’m amazed Qantas’ and the Government’s behaviour is only getting this much attention now. Better late than never though.

Qantas and Australia's skies clouded by soaring airfares, anti-competitive behaviour, and nepotism

The skies above Australia have long symbolised freedom, exploration, and connection. Yet, in recent years, these skies have become shrouded in clouds of anti-competitive behaviour, sky-high airfares, and nepotism, threatening the very essence of Australia's aviation industry. Once a source of...

www.livewiremarkets.com