Qatar denied extra capacity into Australia

[BAM1748]

Dangerous, slippery slope

What capping the number of flights a foreign govt owned airline can fly here?

I don’t really think so in the real world.

 

[BAM1748]

Well you should be very unhappy with this decision.

I ran an Australian business supplying export services, which required me to travel a lot to where I supplied the services. My biggest single cost by far was airfares, which went through the roof during covid and are still around the ceiling. Not the biggest factor in my calling it quits, but I’m now happily retired.

In my game, the approach of the government has the effect of boosting competitors from abroad by increasing costs significantly and reducing the competitiveness of Australian bids for service export work relative to those of foreigners.

Cheers skip

If airfares were your highest cost then it probably isn’t such a big deal after all. Having travelled twice this year OS for business a return J airfare to the the US it was 10% the cost of buying 1 turbocharger for 1 locomotive. A nothing cost in the scheme of things. My airfare was the cost of freight for said 1 turbo from New York State to Sydney.

Sounds like you were a consultant if airfare the highest cost of IMEX.

Cheers

 

[PineappleSkip]

Correct. An exporter of services and there are thousands of others like me.

 

[RooFlyer]

BITRE is often quoted as a metric for reliability of service, especially to show Qantas better than others. Here's an interesting thing that's come out of the ACCC action against Qantas:

Why flight cancellations are much worse than you’ve been told

The competition watchdog’s investigation into Qantas flights has revealed that 15,000 Qantas and QantasLink flights were cancelled between May and July 2022 – more than treble the 4149 cancellations publicly reported by the government over the same period.

The monthly reports on domestic airline performance released by the Bureau of Infrastructure and Transport Research Economics (BITRE) are closely watched by many flyers, who use them to figure out which airline is most reliable.

However, BITRE uses a relatively short timeframe to measure cancellations for domestic flights, and doesn’t track cancellations for international flights at all. It only considers a flight “cancelled” if it is axed within seven days of a scheduled departure.

BITRE reported 1770 domestic Qantas cancellations (excluding Jetstar) and 2379 QantasLink cancellations between May and July 2022.

The ACCC says about 15,000 of Qantas’ 66,000 scheduled domestic and international flights (excluding Jetstar) were cancelled over the same period. Some 84.5 per cent of cancellations were domestic flights, with the remainder international flights.

Of course, it goes to the definition of 'cancelled' and also the time frame.

To me, 'cancelled' simply means scheduled, was in play via selling tickets on it, then failed to run, for whatever reason. Time frame: why is a cancelled flight 8 days out, not a 'cancelled flight' to BITRE?

BITRE says the examples of cancellations given by the ACCC on Thursday were not picked up by its own reporting because they were either cancelled with customers notified more than seven days before the scheduled flight time, or they were international flights. It said it had no “imminent” plans to extend the cancellation definition beyond seven days.

So BITRE's figures are pretty meaningless as a straightforward measurement of reliability of service. If Qantas progressively cancelled all MEL-HBA flights 8 days out during September, they'd have a zero cancellation rate, according to BITRE!

 

[stm1sydney]

From another article in AFR 31 Aug:

"Meanwhile, Assistant Treasurer Stephen Jones sought to roll back his remarks from Monday that the “national interest” in blocking more Qatar Airways flights was to protect Qantas’ profits."

So that makes it six different reasons now. None of them remotely acceptable but clearly showing the fingerprints of AJ's active lobbying.

 

[Myrna]

Just want to throw in my personal views on this. Which airline brought us home from the UK in the midst of the pandemic lockdowns? Was it QF? No, it was QR. If it had not been for QR, we and many others would have no way of getting home.

 

[Pushka]

Just want to throw in my personal views on this. Which airline brought us home from the UK in the midst of the pandemic lockdowns? Was it QF? No, it was QR. If it had not been for QR, we and many others would have no way of getting home.

Yes that's the uncomfortable truth. And Qatar never abandoned Adelaide like Qantas did.

 

[Duggo]

From another article in AFR 31 Aug:

"Meanwhile, Assistant Treasurer Stephen Jones sought to roll back his remarks from Monday that the “national interest” in blocking more Qatar Airways flights was to protect Qantas’ profits."

So that makes it six different reasons now. None of them remotely acceptable but clearly showing the fingerprints of AJ's active lobbying.

When I read his comments made on Monday, I fired off an email straight away asking him how was it in the national interests and a reply explaining what his statement meant would be appreciated. There were a few other questions I wanted answering as well but so far the response ............................

 

[jrfsp]

ACCC in public support for QR, pressure mounting on the gov

Allowing Qatar to add flights to compete with Qantas would have reduced airfares, says competition watchdog

The government's decision to block Qatar Airways from adding more weekly flights prevented airfares from being made cheaper, says the boss of the competition watchdog, as Labor's president backs a review of the government's decision.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Must...Fly!]

What capping the number of flights a foreign govt owned airline can fly here?

I don’t really think so in the real world.

If the motivation is purely protectionist, yes it is

 

[pauly7]

Just want to throw in my personal views on this. Which airline brought us home from the UK in the midst of the pandemic lockdowns? Was it QF? No, it was QR. If it had not been for QR, we and many others would have no way of getting home.

But the Qatari ‘government’ did not place the same restrictions on the Australian public and companies the Australian government did…

In fact that country saw the pandemic as a wonderful capital expansion strategy and monetised it extremely well to build brand presence.

What the Australian government did was essentially break the airline industry, amongst others, in Australia

(Not here to argue it was a NET right / wrong approach by the Government to the pandemic, it’s just a fact).

 

[RooFlyer]

What the Australian government did was essentially break the airline industry, amongst others, in Australia

Can't argue with the sentiment, but Qantas did fly - when the federal government paid them to.

 

[drron]

Another new article in the Conversation, from an academic who teaches airline strategy in the context of bilateral air services agreements, makes that very point.

What will putting the interests of Qantas ahead of Qatar Airways cost? $1bn per year and a new wave of protectionism of legacy carriers



I’m sure the Chinese Government has noted this decision in the broader context of Australia’s efforts at reversing China’s anti Australian export decisions. The decision undercuts those efforts.


Well you should be very unhappy with this decision.

I ran an Australian business supplying export services, which required me to travel a lot to where I supplied the services. My biggest single cost by far was airfares, which went through the roof during covid and are still around the ceiling. Not the biggest factor in my calling it quits, but I’m now happily retired.

In my game, the approach of the government has the effect of boosting competitors from abroad by increasing costs significantly and reducing the competitiveness of Australian bids for service export work relative to those of foreigners.

Cheers skip

And that article is also in the guardian. The Minister doesn't have too many friends left.

What will putting Qantas’ interests ahead of Qatar Airways cost? $1bn per year and a new wave of protectionism | Rico Merkert for the Conversation

The decision to block extra flights from Qatar Airways seems inexplicable

www.theguardian.com

 

[justinbrett]

Can't argue with the sentiment, but Qantas did fly - when the federal government paid them to.

For which pax could book an economy seat for a reasonable amount and once booked be relatively confident the flight would operate.

As opposed to the foreign airlines who were cancelling flights and pax left right and centre and often forcing people to buy extremely expensive F tickets.

Australia COVID: Hunt warns against gouging as airfares soar ahead of new arrival caps

amp.smh.com.au

I don’t blame the airlines in either case, both were consequences of the closed borders and mandatory quarantine.

 

[Pushka]

For which pax could book an economy seat for a reasonable amount and once booked be relatively confident the flight would operate.

As opposed to the foreign airlines who were cancelling flights and pax left right and centre and often forcing people to buy extremely expensive F tickets.

Australia COVID: Hunt warns against gouging as airfares soar ahead of new arrival caps

amp.smh.com.au

I don’t blame the airlines in either case, both were consequences of the closed borders and mandatory quarantine.

Qatar never cancelled flights to SA. Multiple flights a week. And they released Award fares too and which we grabbed. Even in the depths of Covid.

 

[Danger]

As an Australian, I'm happy for the Govt to protect Australian business against foreign competition. Especially foreign competition owned by foreign govts where the rule of law is somewhat grey.

There seems to be a very strong argument that allowing QR to operate extra flights would create a heap of economic activity, including job creation. I think the protectionist argument would also carry more weight if Qantas wasn't such a big fan of offshore labour.

 

[justinbrett]

Qatar never cancelled flights to SA. Multiple flights a week. And they released Award fares too and which we grabbed. Even in the depths of Covid.

Why weren't they flooded with the tens of thousands of Aussies stuck overseas forced to pay 10K+ for a flight home, even if they won the lottery of being able to get a seat? There was an SA cap for inbound pax, that was very low at some points (fewer than 300 weekly)

Sounds like recollections may vary on this.

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/australia-international-arrivals-cap-halved-cmd/index.html

 

[Pushka]

Why weren't they flooded with the tens of thousands of Aussies stuck overseas forced to pay 10K+ for a flight home, even if they won the lottery of being able to get a seat? There was an SA cap for inbound pax, that was very low at some points (fewer than 300 weekly)

Sounds like recollections may vary on this.

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/australia-international-arrivals-cap-halved-cmd/index.html

I can just account for my own personal experience.

 

[Quickstatus]

Australian business against foreign competition

Qantas does not protect its own workforce against foreign competition....

 

[Pushka]

Labour ranks starting to splinter. South Australia Government taking up the fight to Qantas. Good on them. Source 'The Australian' today.


"A South Australian government spokesman said it “believes more flights and more international airlines flying in and out of Adelaide will drive down prices, making it more affordable for South Australians to travel and encourage more international visitors”.

The spokesman also said Qatar Airways was a “valued partner to the state” and urged Qantas to reinstate international flights from Adelaide Airport.

“We appreciate Qatar Airways’ commitment to South Australia since it started flying to Adelaide in 2016, in particular during Covid when Qatar played a unique and vital role in repatriating South Australians and transporting tonnes of cargo to maintain supply chains for South Australian agriculture exporters,” the spokesperson said.

“Qatar has serviced South Australians far more than many other international airlines. We also urge Qantas to reinstate international flights to and from Adelaide … since it cancelled its direct Adelaide-to-Singapore flights in 2013.”"