QF announce non-stop Perth-London B787 Services

[Strategic Aviation]

SIN is my preference but HKG could be interesting, especially if JHK had gotten off the ground

 

[Orca]

Does anyone know when the first tickets will be on sale for this route? I'm assuming 1 Mar 2018 less 355 to 353 days => ~11 March 2017

If so, that would imply the full route will be decided and confirm (or not) the rumour about the PER-MEL additional sector.

Further to this, is it reasonable to expect that J class fares for the inaugural flight would be inflated? I presume a few seats up front would already be set aside for airlines execs + media(?) etc thus reducing the number available to Joe Public.

I have a trip to the UK planned around that time next year and figured, if the dates suit, I may as well try and get on the inaugural flight but only in J. Trying to work out how much of a premium I might be up for for with regards to to price. Appreciate any feedback from AFF'ers that may have been on other inaugural flights before in the past.

 

[JessicaTam]

Further to this, is it reasonable to expect that J class fares for the inaugural flight would be inflated? I presume a few seats up front would already be set aside for airlines execs + media(?) etc thus reducing the number available to Joe Public.

I have a trip to the UK planned around that time next year and figured, if the dates suit, I may as well try and get on the inaugural flight but only in J. Trying to work out how much of a premium I might be up for for with regards to to price. Appreciate any feedback from AFF'ers that may have been on other inaugural flights before in the past.

I was on the inaugural SYD-OOL flight and the price was cheap as an introductory special. Probably not much of a comparison, though.

 

[OATEK]

Further to this, is it reasonable to expect that J class fares for the inaugural flight would be inflated? I presume a few seats up front would already be set aside for airlines execs + media(?) etc thus reducing the number available to Joe Public.

I have a trip to the UK planned around that time next year and figured, if the dates suit, I may as well try and get on the inaugural flight but only in J. Trying to work out how much of a premium I might be up for for with regards to to price. Appreciate any feedback from AFF'ers that may have been on other inaugural flights before in the past.

When QF started taking bookings for the first flights via DXB, once approval was given but before flights commenced, there were some specials (by QF standard). We booked J seats SYD-DXB-LHR <$7K.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Further to this, is it reasonable to expect that J class fares for the inaugural flight would be inflated? I presume a few seats up front would already be set aside for airlines execs + media(?) etc thus reducing the number available to Joe Public.

I have a trip to the UK planned around that time next year and figured, if the dates suit, I may as well try and get on the inaugural flight but only in J. Trying to work out how much of a premium I might be up for for with regards to to price. Appreciate any feedback from AFF'ers that may have been on other inaugural flights before in the past.

The problem will be booking return fares on the first day they go on sale as fares for your return flight won't be on sale yet.
This problem led to AusBT publishing very high fares for the first 787 flights to the US because they looked at one way fares.
Because of the time zone I found you could book a flight back on technically the same day. Not that you would. But it made comparisons of return fares possible.
There was a slight premium and I assume there would be a higher premium for the PER-LHR flights due to the non-stop component.
The trick is goign to be how to book a ticket for the inaugural flight before the return tickets are available.

 

[Ansett]

Have had several people that I know and trust with in Qantas confirm that the 787 LHR flight will start in Melbourne and depart from the International Terminal across to Perth. No confirmation of likely departure times at this stage

 

[Strategic Aviation]

AusBT reported last week:-

The actual route for the Boeing 787 will be Melbourne-Perth-London, with the Dreamliner taking flight from Melbourne Airport's international terminal.

However, it's tipped that Qantas may prevent the Melbourne-Perth leg from showing on domestic airline schedules so can't be booked as a purely domestic flight.

Qantas hasn't revealed the timings of its Perth-London flight but if the Boeing 787 was wheels-up from Perth in the evening it could arrive into London from 6am onwards.

The alternative would be leaving Perth mid-morning to reach London at around 7pm, although passengers from the east coast would face a very early start.

Either way, Qantas CEO Alan Joyce has said the airline will revise its east-west timetables with an eye to better connections so that some specific flights would neatly feed into the Boeing 787 schedule.

 

[Melburnian1]

Given that the PER - LHR potential market is arguably smaller than MEL - LHR, and bearing in mind that if QF9/10 via DXB are cancelled this means a 50 per cent cut in overall capacity on the MEL - LHR 'same metal' QF route (i.e. via PER instead of via DXB), will there be complaints from Perth residents and visitors if Melburnians and visitors to Melbourne book out a typical two thirds of the seats on these flights, given the small number of international passengers each flight has room for?

I realise on international flights it's normally 'first in best dressed.' As far as I know, airlines serving two destinations with one flight typically do not, say, reserve 70 seats for PER passengers and 96 for MEL patrons if there are say 166 economy seats as will be the case with the B787-900.

 

[oz_mark]

I realise on international flights it's normally 'first in best dressed.' As far as I know, airlines serving two destinations with one flight typically do not, say, reserve 70 seats for PER passengers and 96 for MEL patrons if there are say 166 economy seats as will be the case with the B787-900.

Airlines revenue management can and do provide a number of seats for each market.

You'll see this sometimes as segments being individually available but not the whole lot together....

 

[docjames]

I wonder if they will open up MEL-PER for domestic bookings at a certain timepoint out from departure (T-72, T-24 etc) to ensure they don't lose MEL-LHR fares by filling MEL-PER.

The risk having a half full aircraft MEL-PER if the loadings are strong on the PER-LHR leg (and dont sell the MEL-PER segment).

 

[mviy]

I wonder if they will open up MEL-PER for domestic bookings at a certain timepoint out from departure (T-72, T-24 etc) to ensure they don't lose MEL-LHR fares by filling MEL-PER.

The risk having a half full aircraft MEL-PER if the loadings are strong on the PER-LHR leg (and dont sell the MEL-PER segment).

I guess another possibility could be having a domestic flight scheduled for say half an hour/an hour earlier that's cancelled if they can move enough passengers onto the international flight. Though that could cause some difficulties with managing having aircraft in the right place.

Though come to think of it they should quickly get an idea of what percentage of tickets are booked MEL-PER-LHR and what are booked PER-LHR and be able to anticipate roughly how many MEL-PER seats they could sell without jeopardising international bookings and put a conservative amount up for sale initially and more if needed closer to departure.

 

[docjames]

I guess another possibility could be having a domestic flight scheduled for say half an hour/an hour earlier that's cancelled if they can move enough passengers onto the international flight. Though that could cause some difficulties with managing having aircraft in the right place.

Though come to think of it they should quickly get an idea of what percentage of tickets are booked MEL-PER-LHR and what are booked PER-LHR and be able to anticipate roughly how many MEL-PER seats they could sell without jeopardising international bookings and put a conservative amount up for sale initially and more if needed closer to departure.

Agree there may be an initial period while the work out actual booking patterns and the MEL-LHR/PER-LHR split.

 

[flychrisfly]

I vaguely recall when SYD-DXB-LHR and MEL-DXB-LHR were launched that the prices for the premium classes varied wildly after they went on sale. My assumption at the time was that the yield management software had insufficient historical information that it could use to smooth the prices. There were some very good deals available as well as some shocking ones! It'll be interesting to see what happens with this route launch...

 

[oz_mark]

The risk having a half full aircraft MEL-PER if the loadings are strong on the PER-LHR leg (and dont sell the MEL-PER segment).

Given they wanted to move to the Domestic Terminal in Perth for connections, one can imagine they are aiming for the connecting (say SYD-PER-LHR, ADL-PER-LHR, etc. ) market as well. Qantas would have modelled this to within an inch of its life, and if they don't market MEL-PER on its own, I'd expect people to be able to spread out

 

[TomVexille]

Given they wanted to move to the Domestic Terminal in Perth for connections, one can imagine they are aiming for the connecting (say SYD-PER-LHR, ADL-PER-LHR, etc. ) market as well. Qantas would have modelled this to within an inch of its life, and if they don't market MEL-PER on its own, I'd expect people to be able to spread out

Unless of course the rumor that this will replace 9/10 is true...

 

[moa999]

I'm sure the gurus in QF yield management will work it out
In simple terms for every PER-LHR flight you sell you can sell one MEL-PER

 

[docjames]

I'm sure the gurus in QF yield management will work it out
In simple terms for every PER-LHR flight you sell you can sell one MEL-PER

Indeed, but sales may not follow in reverse, but they could have a dynamic availability (release seats dynamically whenever a PER-LHR is sold).

Of course, pricing may be interesting (would it cost more to send pax MEL-PER via international terminal than from domestic? Is there differences in "security fees" etc)?

 

[mviy]

Indeed, but sales may not follow in reverse, but they could have a dynamic availability (release seats dynamically whenever a PER-LHR is sold).

Well I think they would recalculate at least daily what they expect the loads to be and after each sale of a seat. Predictions of the future utilising past information need to be constantly updated as new information comes to light. If the loads are high they could still offer seats at very unattractive prices (only offering one of the higher fare buckets) compared to domestic flights. They could oversell Y for the MEL-PER leg and op-up to PE seats as needed if PE is not sold out for the MEL-PER leg.

Of course, pricing may be interesting (would it cost more to send pax MEL-PER via international terminal than from domestic? Is there differences in "security fees" etc)?

There's also the point that WP and above would be entitled to a FLounge visit even on the cheapest discount economy fare which on average would be much more costly than a domestic J lounge visit.

 

[PLANT]

I'm going with cargo Mel-Per when not full... Easier to manage and they make more money out of it!

 

[cwd]

Assuming the 787s will continue flying MEL-LAX after PER-LHR starts, perhaps they'll offer PER-MEL-LAX and try to fill PER-MEL this way. If they can get the flight times to match up, of course.