QF announce non-stop Perth-London B787 Services

[Quickstatus]

Rottnest island getting a bigger runway?

What's that going to do?

 

[dajop]

But from MEL you're far better off stopping closer to half way on your journey seeing you have to stop somewhere.

Actually, particularly in business class, I'd argue that it is far better having the long sector and not stopping half way, you have much more flexibility over sleeping time. I would see the new QF9 timetable much better than QF1 in this regard, to have 18 hrs before a 5am arrival into LHR than the 7 from DXB. Even in economy, on the same journey I did SIN-NRT-JFK-HKG-SIN, I preferred the return arrangements even though it was almost 16 hrs on the long sector, it just allows better sleep and rest.

II can't see any way a diversion for any reason on the international sector would not result in a cancellation due to a lack of crew hours.

How many flight crew would they have on the flight? I know on a nearly-snowed-in SQ21 flight from EWR to SIN, the captain sent the full complement of flight deck back crew to check for ice on wings (after de-icing), which comprised captain + 3 other flight crew, which means equivalent of ~40 hrs of flight deck duty across 4 crew. If 18:20 flight crewed by 3 crew, that's what 12:15 hrs each, if 4 crew, it's 9:10 each. I'll admit I have no knowledge of these things, so don't what limits come into play and how it works across having 2 shifts on the plane.

 

[mviy]

Interesting options BNE-LHR for a random date in March 2018 (post-24 March). And on the return in April, no EK options presented at all (though, that might be a EK-fare-release-timing issue).

Clearly they don't want to encourage BNE passengers to use the new service.

 

[katiebell]

Re: Melbourne the latest City to get shafted by Qantas

So Melbourne finally feels the pain that other cities have endured from Sydney Centric Qantas.

MEL has felt the pain for many years as so many destinations have been enhanced to extinction...

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Re: Melbourne the latest City to get shafted by Qantas

MEL has felt the pain for many years as so many destinations have been enhanced to extinction...

I honestly don't know why you keep bothering? You clearly hate Qantas.... although you should be happy now you can have bacon on QF9.

Destinations served from MEL: London, Auckland, Christchurch, Hong Kong, Los Angeles, Singapore, Tokyo, Auckland, Wellington.


It's not too bad?

 

[Flying Fox]

Interesting options BNE-LHR for a random date in March 2018 (post-24 March). And on the return in April, no EK options presented at all (though, that might be a EK-fare-release-timing issue).

View attachment 96480View attachment 96481

I’m pretty shocked with the price difference for BNE-PER-LHR vs BNE-SYD-LHR!

$902 is huge!

 

[moa999]

I think let's wait till we get away from launch flights.

Particularly when Flexi is $322 cheaper than Saver on BNE-PER-LHR !

 

[katiebell]

Re: Melbourne the latest City to get shafted by Qantas

Destinations served from MEL: London, Auckland, Christchurch, Hong Kong, Los Angeles, Singapore, Tokyo, Auckland, Wellington.


It's not too bad?

Still a lot fewer than there used to be. This also applies to most other Australian cities

 

[Quickstatus]

Re: Melbourne the latest City to get shafted by Qantas

Still a lot fewer than there used to be. This also applies to most other Australian cities

A lot more airlines (and therefore airline seats) plying their trade into and out of OZ.
Most people just prefer to fly BFOD and are not tied to a brand or even type of aircraft and most eschew flyer status. Just the way it is.
QF is at least responding very dynamically to the changing air travel landscape and have managed to position itself at the premium end of the market. However an A380 is too big to service just the premium end.

 

[jb747]

How many flight crew would they have on the flight? I know on a nearly-snowed-in SQ21 flight from EWR to SIN, the captain sent the full complement of flight deck back crew to check for ice on wings (after de-icing), which comprised captain + 3 other flight crew, which means equivalent of ~40 hrs of flight deck duty across 4 crew. If 18:20 flight crewed by 3 crew, that's what 12:15 hrs each, if 4 crew, it's 9:10 each. I'll admit I have no knowledge of these things, so don't what limits come into play and how it works across having 2 shifts on the plane.

There aren't really two shifts. There is only one Captain, and one FO, and two SOs on a heavy crew. Flight time limitations are broken up, so that there is a limit on total duty time, and also time in the seat. Generally, you can add 1:15 to any promulgated flight time, for the pre and post flight duties, which involve every one. All on for the first and last hour. In seat duty times are currently limited to between 8 and 9 hours. I expect ULR limits will add an hour or so, but it isn't flush with time.

Then you have to ask about the quality of any rest they may have. It varies. Some people sleep. Some don't. Makes one hell of a difference.

Put it this way, at the end of any long flight (not picking on these), the pilots' performance will be such that if equated to alcohol consumption, they would not be allowed to drive.

 

[eastwest101]

Re: Melbourne the latest City to get shafted by Qantas

QF is at least responding very dynamically to the changing air travel landscape and have managed to position itself at the premium end of the market. However an A380 is too big to service just the premium end.

What's premium about the 9 abreast configuration on a QF B787 for that length of time? Premium price tag with a LCC product, in my opinion.

 

[Quickstatus]

Even at QF the Premium end is definitely not Y (some would say Y-)

 

[andyhui01]

Re: Melbourne the latest City to get shafted by Qantas

QF is at least responding very dynamically to the changing air travel landscape and have managed to position itself at the premium end of the market. However an A380 is too big to service just the premium end.

Premium to which carrier? Jetstar? Or do you mean Premium just like any other legacy carrier. I don't fly QF much but getting a meal in a box in Y when others can serve something in a tray after a 10hr flight is hardly premium. J and F hard product is hardly premium either

 

[Quickstatus]

Re: Melbourne the latest City to get shafted by Qantas

Premium to which carrier? Jetstar? Or do you mean Premium just like any other legacy carrier. I don't fly QF much but getting a meal in a box in Y when others can serve something in a tray after a 10hr flight is hardly premium. J and F hard product is hardly premium either

Hey people.....

Premium end of the market = J and F.
Y is not premium.
Maybe W is a bit premium

The post is not about whether any class in QF is more or less premium that is marketed, or whether its more or less premium compared with another airline.

Most people (as in most airline travellers) would equate the premium end as just that. F, J, maybe W.

Qantas does that well, often its premium cabins are full while their Y cabins are not.

If some don't agree that Qantas F, J, W, Y is not as premium as it should be, fine no problems, but that's not what the post was about

 

[oz_mark]

Re: Melbourne the latest City to get shafted by Qantas

J is probably the only cabin I would consider doing this flight in!

 

[Brettmcg]

Well, if QF was filling the A380 with premium pax, they wouldn't be axing the service. So MEL residents have smacked themselves in the teeth by being cheapskates. Alan Joyce made the point some time back that sales for premium tickets ex MEL are way below sales for premium tickets ex SYD (in proportional population terms).

Other airlines have also been cutting premium seats (especially F) from MEL routes. If the market is not there, it makes no sense to continue serving up lots of excess F seats. There's a reason why many people book MEL to LHR/LAX, rather than go ex SYD - because we know we have a much greater chance of getting a points upgrade to F from MEL, because the F seats won't have been sold as revenue tickets.

That may be true, but other airlines aren't in the position QF is/was with EK.

Let's not forgot AUSTRALIA -> DXB (via SIN/BKK and previously KUL) -> LHR is considered a trunk route as per the QF/EK Tie-Up agreement. On trunk routes the two airlines operate a revenue share model, which means while QF may not have been making money, or indeed losing some on the MEL route, overall it would have been well and truly balanced out by the two carriers' joint performance across all of these routes.

It makes me wonder how long it will be before the SYD service ditches DXB and the EK agreement is wound-up. Personally, I hope this isn't the case. Having to fly via LHR to other destinations is one of the most painful travel experiences you can have. Even if they add CDG, FRA or BER (if/when it ever opens!), and FCO - these won't be the final destinations to which people wish to travel in 2020.

 

[Cool Cat Phil]

I'm really Looking forward to giving this new route via PER a go once launched. It's great news that the F lounge will still be accessible in MEL, although I totally agree with many contributors so far regarding departure time ex MEL.
A late evening departure from MEL works best for those of us who work, who don't wish to take an additional day of Annual leave or cut the holiday to Europe short by one day to make the mid afternoon departure.
Needless to say, a late evening departure EX MEL would certainly not be feasible with the connecting PER passengers.

 

[Mattg]

There seems to be a common misconception that the PER-LHR flights will be cheaper for QF to operate because they don't need to make a stopover. I would have thought that the extra fuel burn would far outweigh any potential cost savings by removing the DXB stop?

Interesting options BNE-LHR for a random date in March 2018 (post-24 March). And on the return in April, no EK options presented at all (though, that might be a EK-fare-release-timing issue).

In fairness, I expect that the lack of EK options is because EK only seem to be releasing fares 330 days out nowadays.

I do wonder though if QF will be re-jigging some of their flights between PER and ADL, BNE, DRW and possibly CBR to better connect to QF9/10 in PER.

I also wonder if QF might adjust its MEL-CHC schedule (currently a redeye in one direction as the flights are designed to connect to the MEL-DXB flight).

 

[JohnK]

The email sent out by Qantas this afternoon seems to hint that the 2x A380s being taken off MEL-DXB-LHR will be redeployed to SIN and HKG.

At least something good will come out of the gimmicky PER-LHR route. Would love an A380 to Asia to give another option to avoid the A330.

 

[mviy]

There seems to be a common misconception that the PER-LHR flights will be cheaper for QF to operate because they don't need to make a stopover. I would have thought that the extra fuel burn would far outweigh any potential cost savings by removing the DXB stop?

The 787 is more fuel efficient, I think, but every bit of time you add to a flight does increase the average fuel cost per mile flown so the extra long flight time would cancel out some of the fuel efficiency savings.

Certainly there would a number of factors involved cost wise, a mixture of pros and cons.

If the overall cost is higher on the longer flight if QF can get passengers to cover the premium they wouldn't mind that.