QF announce non-stop Perth-London B787 Services

[Quickstatus]

Just wait until BA or another low cost airline does the same.
First mover advantage will only last so long.

While sme passengers are happy to pay Qenhanced pricing many other are not.

 

[andyhui01]

I reckon it is a matter of time before norwegian does a 5th freedom SIN-AUS as well. They just need another 789 Airframe, not sure if they have enough at the moment.

 

[pauly7]

I reckon it is a matter of time before norwegian does a 5th freedom SIN-AUS as well. They just need another 789 Airframe, not sure if they have enough at the moment.

I'm not so sure, all Euro carriers have struggled to make a cent flying on to AU.... perhaps with the new generation of smaller airframes might happen but still need pax demand...

 

[RichardMEL]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth)-Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soar

raised this wild speculation in the MEL F lounge thread, but this is the better place for it.

I am wondering about Chauffeur Drive offering here.

As we know, QF only ever brought CD in to align with EK offering on the LHR/DXB routes (those with EK codeshares or options). While they had CD for a time on routes to LAX(DFW was not a 380 destination at the time) it went away relatively quickly (a year or so IIRC?). Rationale given was around the lack of EK codeshares and options on same route IIRC.

Now given QF9 is not and can not have an EK codeshare due to the UK/AU bilateral how will this affect CD? In theory they SHOULD continue to offer it for J pax to align with QF codeshare MEL-DXB-LHR and SYD-DXB-LHR(QF metal also) as current BUT what if they see this as a place to cut some costs and not allow it? This is something I honestly could see happening.

Now some have already commented that this would be a minor thing, but IF this happened (I'm not saying it would I repeat) it would yet again create a product differential and confusion for all. Hopefully they'll just keep it. If/when anyone books J to LHR I'd be interested to know if it's provided as an option.

 

[andyhui01]

I'm not so sure, all Euro carriers have struggled to make a cent flying on to AU.... perhaps with the new generation of smaller airframes might happen but still need pax demand...

I don't think LCC's have attempted. The Only LCC who attempted the Kangaroo route was AirAsia but they did it on a A340. A 787 in the right config is perfect for LCC's and many LCC's are doing well on Long/Med haul with them. ie. Jetstar & Scoot.

 

[hutch]

I don't think LCC's have attempted. The Only LCC who attempted the Kangaroo route was AirAsia but they did it on a A340. A 787 in the right config is perfect for LCC's and many LCC's are doing well on Long/Med haul with them. ie. Jetstar & Scoot.

Not a like for like scenario. Air Asia X is based in KL. Hence they could hub between Europe and Australia via KL. Scoot will do the same thing with their Athens flights.

If Norwegian want to fly Europe to Australia via Singapore, they would have the added costs of Singapore stop and the subsequent impact on costs. Can't think of any LCC that have routes with stops included.

 

[bablong]

I think Qantas should be applauded in trying something new and different. There have been many critics of Qantas over the years that they are not innovative. Being the first airline to fly non-stop from Europe to Australian is, in my view, innovative and the only way Qantas can do this at present is to fly to Perth. In terms of the length of time, it was once considered that people would not sit in an economy seat for 12 hours. I recall rampant criticism of the Dallas flights when they were first commenced but as I understand it, the Dallas flight is performing well. Now we have flights such as the QR flight to Auckland that takes 17 hours.

Whether this flight is a success long term - who knows. But I applaud Qantas in trying. I think its success will largely depend on support from the local market rather than other markets especially once it becomes viable to fly Syd/Mel etc non-stop to London etc. As a person that flies to London once or twice a year for work I will definitely take it. I find the stop over in Dubai to be disruptive and not aligned with my body clock especially when there is only a 6 to 7 hour hop to London.

 

[andyhui01]

If Norwegian want to fly Europe to Australia via Singapore, they would have the added costs of Singapore stop and the subsequent impact on costs. Can't think of any LCC that have routes with stops included.

I guess its not Apples to Apples but Norwegian are already going to fly to LGW-SIN anyway which is why I thought it was a possibility. 5th Freedom also allows them to sell AUS-SIN tickets as well.

 

[opusman]

Re: QF PER LHR still not for sale

Better hurry. Heard AJ on SkyNews saying first flight was half sold out within 2 hours

See how the second flight goes.

 

[flychrisfly]

Of course it was coordinated. It shows a deliberate, informed downgrade of QF services from MEL and other carriers are more than happy to swoop in and fill the space created. And as for your codeshare claim, do a dummy booking MEL-LHR -- only QF1 and QF9 come up. No codeshares with EK available to book.

Give it a month. Emirates don't release seats until about a month after QF. They'll appear then for 24 Mar 2018.

 

[Quickstatus]

Re: QF PER LHR still not for sale

Better hurry. Heard AJ on SkyNews saying first flight was half sold out within 2 hours

Wow! i would have thought the inaugural flight would be sold out when ticket booth opened with all that hype. They only sold 118 seats?.
QF could not keep the A380 as QF9 with all the social media every spare moment posting about the A380.

A quick perusal of media outlets don't even have QF9 B787 as a headline.

The vast majority of passengers don't care about the aircraft they fly in.

 

[codash1099]

As an aside, I see that the points/SC calculator hasn't been updated yet.

 

[mviy]

I think the PER-LHR flights are a bold move and was initially pleased that QANTAS was adding an additional route. I do think the 17 hour flight is a bit long, but a good option to have available if you're based in Perth. But from MEL you're far better off stopping closer to half way on your journey seeing you have to stop somewhere.

The logical next step after the A380 from MEL would've been direct non-stop flights from MEL to LHR but suitable aircraft for that are not available yet.

Cutting the MEL A380 service means the EK partnership is of little benefit to MEL based QF passengers anymore. The main point of the EK partnership was to fly QF to DXB then connect there onto Emirates flights to a wide range of destinations if not flying on to LHR. By connecting in DXB one would arrive at the destination quicker compared with connecting in LHR. Whilst you can't go into the upgrade lottery for the Emirates flights the long QF operated A380 flight between MEL and DXB is the main one you'd probably want to apply for an upgrade on anyway.

Shifting the MEL-DXB service back to MEL-HKG or MEL-SIN and offering codeshare connections from there with BA/CX would have been an alternative.

But QF chose to offer nothing for their loyal customers wanting a QF A380 service from MEL at least part of the way to Europe on the one booking.

 

[Quickstatus]

But QF chose to offer nothing for their loyal customers wanting a QF A380 service from MEL at least part of the way to Europe on the one booking.

What customers?. Qantas is cutting seats and redeploying the A380 elsewhere for peak demand operations.
It can't fill the aircraft at appropriate yields.

 

[njba]

I recall rampant criticism of the Dallas flights when they were first commenced but as I understand it, the Dallas flight is performing well.

Did I read something that this service is only possible by applying a pax cap that is < total seats? Or have I made this up entirely? Bueller?

 

[RichardMEL]

Shifting the MEL-DXB service back to MEL-HKG or MEL-SIN and offering codeshare connections from there with BA/CX would have been an alternative.

But QF chose to offer nothing for their loyal customers wanting a QF A380 service from MEL at least part of the way to Europe on the one booking.

Disagree.

You are viewing this from the perspective of a QFF passenger a) wanting QF metal or b) wanting to upgrade.

Of the vast majority of passengers on these routes the actual numbers that fall ingo these categories will be relatively small.

In my view this move is almost EXACTLY what the EK partnership delivers to QF. Flexibility to redeploy resources on shared routes and EK steps up to fill the voice.

QF codeshares on these flights, so they can still sell MEL-DXB-LHR (along with all the one stop options to europe/africa/India etc already offered via EK codeshares).

If you are looking to buy a QF ticket/fare, even one that earns SC's(for those interesed, many aren't even aware what they are or care) then you actually have increased options out of MEL. QF F fare buyers wind up in EK F if they so choose, or go via SYD. With EK upguaging the 408/409 to a 380 that gives more F suites, showers bars etc. Same for J pax. A better product, in many respects than the current QF 380 offering (but in J probably not the 789).

The disadvantage is to those of us seeking QF metal upgrades.. and I absolutely agree...

Now, if QF and EK did some sort of deal to allow upgrades(who knows? this may be in the works) then that would be the best of both worlds(though of course one would also be competing with skywards members for upgrade space, but that's a whole other issue).

In terms of overall QF "seats" to LHR out of London it's actually an increase, with a spread of routes and departure and arrival times.

How is this a bad thing from the point of view of someone buying on schedule or price? You're on a work trip and the boss is paying for a J seat(hoopefully! ) then you end up on EK or QF (now or next year) is probably not that relevant

I still content there's only a subset of passengers who find this so horrible. Will I miss being able to go J->F on QF9? Absolutely. it's a wonderful flight and timings as is. No question. However I also recognise that if you're looking to fly without considerations of status, upgrades etc this is a net gain for ex-MEL pax in many respects.

And obviously a huge gain for PER.

As for SIN/HKG europe.. as discussed earlier the EK deal, for better or worse, prevents codes on other flights.

However you can STILL do these things on, for example, an AY fare and still get a decent SC haul and all the rest of that stuff.

these are all options.

And of course for those who REALLY are so pissed off about losing the QF A380 to DXB-LHR? Jump ship to SQ or EY or whoever you like and vote with the $$$ and that will send its own message to QF.

As expressed earlier if QF9/10 was so popular they had huge demand then they wouldn't do what they're doing.

This doesn't suit everyone, but on reflection for a majority this provides more options.

my 13 cents worth. flame proof suit ready!

 

[TomVexille]

It's floor space not passenger space that matters for the airline, or actual seat desnity - so you need to add an allowance for armrests, seat cushions etc which are larger in PE.
I think AusBt says usable width for PE closer to 22"

At 32x18 versus 40x24 (giving 2" vs 1" for seat thickness/bigger tables, arm rests) you are at 67% more for example. And I suspect the actual number is slightly higher

These calcs get difficult for the new staggered business seats with overlapping areas

While I can't comment about width, seat cushions are irrelevant when discussing pitch. The definition of pitch is the distance from any point to the exact same point on the seat in front or behind. So 38" is exactly correct.

 

[kevrosmith]

Interesting options BNE-LHR for a random date in March 2018 (post-24 March). And on the return in April, no EK options presented at all (though, that might be a EK-fare-release-timing issue).

 

[Quickstatus]

Im sure QF would have contingencies for a fuel diversion - especially westward.
Flight time PER-LHR = 18:20 and 17:30 the other way. But let's speculate as we have about this service...

What would happen if QF9 had to divert to DXB for fuel - a "splash and dash". Normally a slash and dash results in a continuation of the flight to its final destination.
I can't see any way a diversion for any reason on the international sector would not result in a cancellation due to a lack of crew hours. If so where would the airline find a fresh replacement crew for the 787?. The airline can't just send a set of crew in because their clock starts ticking when they sign on at the airport even as a passenger.

 

[PLANT]

Rottnest island getting a bigger runway?