QF to Europe returns to the Kangaroo Route (via SIN)

[Strategic Aviation]

The Park Hyatt staff almost feared for me, while waiting for my limo to the airport to catch QF2 to SYD, that I was out in ~13C/55F weather with a light breeze without a jacket on. They seemed very worried I would be very cold.

Thai government declares disaster zones as people are caught up in plummeting winter temperatures... of 15C - Daily Mail Online

The Thai government has labelled 65 provinces as disaster zones as residents struggle to cope with winter temperatures of 15C (59F).

In the North of the country a cold snap has seen the mercury drop as low as 1C (34F) in rural areas, with towns and city shivering in temperatures of 14C.

 

[Sprucegoose]

I think the changes in the alliance highlight how much stronger Qantas International has become and its ability to get more out of the deal. EK is still the fastest choice for most people who aren't flying into LHR, so that positions QF well by placing their code on EK metal. There is also a clear Asia focus at the moment for international, and placing more capacity to SIN also strengthens their place in Asia, particularly with onward connections on 3K and towards India on 9W.

It also meant my dear Irish friends avoiding the ignominy of LHR enroute to Eire.......(ex DXB).

 

[Sluggo]

A good move. I wonder why this decision was made. Iooking through SYD-LHR, QF is happy to use BA codeshares often for the trip. Hope bacon is back on the menu!

 

[Flying mermaid]

or course.. but your view on PE (which is similar to mine, incidently) probably doesn't reflect the general public. The whole PE product was designed for those willing and able to spend a bit more for a better experience.. the poor man's J if you will. Consider people like retirees with a bit of cash, but not enough for J (and no points or status)... or those who save up for a special trip somewhere and, as I said, "splurge" on it. I know people who buy PE as a better stepping stone to J but if the upgrade fails they at least get a better seat.

My point was about Joe Public, not about those of us in the minority with lots of points and status where upgrading to J is a real and realistic possibility and desire. For some PE is the goal.

yes I have a friend who is pushing 70 and has decided that she is prepared to spend the extra by moving to PE from economy. She loves it and thanks it is totally worth it. Has done it a few times now.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

yes I have a friend who is pushing 70 and has decided that she is prepared to spend the extra by moving to PE from economy. She loves it and thanks it is totally worth it. Has done it a few times now.

Until she finds out she could have been flying full-flat in business class for the same price Kinda takes away the shine.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Until she finds out she could have been flying full-flat in business class for the same price Kinda takes away the shine.

yes except she only travels to the USA and only wants to fly Qantas, so I don't think she could.....She also does points plus pay to reduce her fare and although I have gone through the concept of points value with her, she feels she doesn't have many points and a $ saved is a $ saved.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

yes except she only travels to the USA and only wants to fly Qantas, so I don't think she could.....She also does points plus pay to reduce her fare and although I have gone through the concept of points value with her, she feels she doesn't have many points and a $ saved is a $ saved.

'only QF' puts a dampener on it! Savings aren't as great to the USA, but still possible. Looking end of September QF is asking $5900 PE to LAX, Fiji Airways has business class for $4600. Ok, the FJ flight is angled flat, but it's still a bed for $1300 less.

 

[Flying mermaid]

'only QF' puts a dampener on it! Savings aren't as great to the USA, but still possible. Looking end of September QF is asking $5900 PE to LAX, Fiji Airways has business class for $4600. Ok, the FJ flight is angled flat, but it's still a bed for $1300 less.

I really should have another attempt to talk her into trying some other options. I used Fiji Air last year - just to Nadi, but I thought they were fine. Mind you this is someone who I have been working on for 20 years to take a trip with us to Singapore. I think I have finally convinced her that it is quite civilised.....

 

[SYD]

'only QF' puts a dampener on it! Savings aren't as great to the USA, but still possible. Looking end of September QF is asking $5900 PE to LAX, Fiji Airways has business class for $4600. Ok, the FJ flight is angled flat, but it's still a bed for $1300 less.

The secret is in the QF Sales. When LAX/SFO are on Sale in J for sub $5k, PE is sub $2.5k and whY ~$1k QF return.

Anyone who is not on the QF Red eMail list is really missing out.

I for one am looking forward to a SYD-SIN PE Sale. I was booked on one when QF announced the shift to DXB....

 

[docjames]

Nobody will fly BNE-PER-LHR. If anything they'd go BNE-SIN-LHR or even BNE-SYD-LHR... via MEL at a stretch.

And honestly in Y, to most pax, a 737 is the same as a 330 (I know people like JohnK will disagree but I'm talking about "most pax" not the "AFF Elite" ) . In J sure, but again it's fairly unlikely one would go BNE-PER-LHR or v.v. when there's a SIN connection there, or even SYD.

If you can save one or 2 hours off your total transit time and the price is right.. there are pax who wil simply not care.

Reminds me of when i flew DRW-BNE-MEL-HKG-LHR.

I was somewhat bemused that approx 16 hours after leaving DRW i was flying straight back over the top of it again....

 

[RichardMEL]

FM's 70y.o. friend example is more common than those of us here might think. Some have a blind loyalty to a brand or whatever, but do not always see the value elsewhere (I'd fly NZ for sub-$5k in J over FJ, but that's just me.. and I have done so incidently).

Again though, the example illustrates the way a less FF inclined type person thinks and what they value. If FM's friend is happy with their choices than who are we to criticise? Sure, they could wait for a sale, or pool points to go for upgrade and the rest but at theend of the day it's everyone's choice and they have different ideas of value to us. Many "joe public" would think us doing things like flying MEL-SYD-OOL for the extra SC as insane when there's direct JQ flights every few hours. Same thing really

and this was my point. Have to take ourselves out of the snug cocoon of experience at the point(s)y end of travel life and remember we're only a relatively small minority of the travelling public and our biases and ways we do things (and even then, everyone on AFF has different values and priorities still!) are likely going to be quite different to the once or twice a year passenger.

my 2 cents (again )

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The secret is in the QF Sales. When LAX/SFO are on Sale in J for sub $5k, PE is sub $2.5k and whY ~$1k QF return.

Maybe there lies the problem? The PE 'sale' fare is, to me, about all the product is actually worth and it's reflected in the product QF delivers. When PE started it was very much a 'business lite' product. Now it is a true 'economy plus'. The amenities have been whittled away to the bare bones.

So it's a bit of a chicken and egg... the product sells for $2.5K during a sale and QF caters for the product at that price point. Which them makes the $6000 fares look even worse value.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If FM's friend is happy with their choices than who are we to criticise?

It's not a criticism.. it's pointing out that there might be other options which they haven't considered. Someone choosing PE when they could have business class for the same price (or even $2000 less) is possibly not a choice they have made with the full facts at hand.

 

[browski]

Again though, the example illustrates the way a less FF inclined type person thinks and what they value. If FM's friend is happy with their choices than who are we to criticise? Sure, they could wait for a sale, or pool points to go for upgrade and the rest but at theend of the day it's everyone's choice and they have different ideas of value to us. Many "joe public" would think us doing things like flying MEL-SYD-OOL for the extra SC as insane when there's direct JQ flights every few hours. Same thing really

I don't think it is the same thing.
You can fly from SYD-LAX on a flat bed for 8K or you can fly from SYD-LAX on a flat bed for 5K. Why would you do the 8K, unless somebody else was paying OR if you held a perceived (but not realistic) fear of the less familiar.

I was dealing with a client and he was paying 8k each for his family to fly MEL-DXB. He asked if I could help him, so I pointed out that he could do the flight 1-stop (great connections) 4K each; saving him 20K. He replied that he would not risk his children's lives on Royal Brunei. I asked him which are the airlines he does risk their lives on.

 

[TheBOSman]

Have to take ourselves out of the snug cocoon of experience at the point(s)y end of travel life

 

[RichardMEL]

OK I'll only address the point I was trying to make one more time

I do NOT disagree with the comments above regarding other options (I thought I was clear on that, apparently not ).


We (as a group of more experienced/savvy/interested flyers) know there are more options. We also have a fair idea of things like alliances, earn rates, product differences (eg who has the best lounges, the stopover benefits, the onboard hard/product, etc) and we will also pick our routes and options based on way more than most "average" people would - from FF earning goals, to trying a new product, to enjoying a stopover in say The Pier F lounge or Cabanas at HKG. Sometimes it may even be to fly on a specific aircraft type - maybe because we prefer it, or to try it because it's new and shiny.

I can guarantee that the vast majority of flyers have far more simple requirements - no matter the cabin:

I would guestimate (since it's foolish to suggest everyone is the same) these requirements would be a mix of:
- schedule
- price
- carrier (eg: "I only fly X airline" - for whatever reason)
- FF loyalty
- intangible (things like prior experience.. like the food sucked last time I flew that cheap flight on airline Y or they lost our bags)

I have zero issue with suggesting to folks that there are options out there, specially if they are lower priced... that's great. That's what travel agents , and systems like skyscanner etc do or we as the more experienced can potentially assist/advice others out there.

Not everyone has a resident AFF member or bothers to use a travel agent or other tool to check prices or options. Some do. Or like the example above say "I'm not flying THAT airline" for some reason or other. I know a bloke who would refuse to even transit places like SIN/KUL and anywhere in the ME3 because he was against the governments of those countries. People make theiir choices for all kinds of reasons - and that's their right, even if it may seem silly to some others, or even wasteful. Many Ansett loyalists refuse to ever fly NZ for example, after the death of AN.

And as for advice or trying to help others out. I have a perfect example from just a few days ago.

I have a friend who travels a bit (is QF Gold) and received the DSC offer. She messaged me saying she had a trip to OOL coming up and she wanted to take advantage of that. So I said to her well that's great, just make sure it's a QF flight number. She came back and said to me oh but they're all Jetstar, the only QF for her dates was via SYD. I said to her well the QF product is likely to be a little nicer, and the extra stop will give you more SC which helps when doubled under the promo..... all reasonably sensible advice given the context I would think.

What did she do? She booked JQ... with points!

so... yeah!

anyway all of this discussion is way OT to QF changing it's flying to go via SIN etc.

issues about price, sales or not, perceived value to one person or another detract from the point I was trying to make that the PE product as a whole, not just QF but any carrier that offer it, is attractive to a certain market sector, and one that clearly is growing because airlines are adding PE cabins more than, for example, F. And just because I or someone else might only value a particular cabin product at a certain level, that doesn't mean the next flyer will.

Anyway I'm done on this issue

I'll finish with an ON topic comment.. QF have launched a J/F sale valid Mar-Aug next year at $6999/$9999 and, interestingly, includes EK coded flights which seems like quite nice details for those with the cash and plans for next year...

 

[mviy]

I'll finish with an OT comment.. QF have launched a J/F sale valid Mar-Aug next year at $6999/$9999 and, interestingly, includes EK coded flights which seems like quite nice details for those with the cash and plans for next year...

I would have been very tempted if I knew the dates I'm likely to fly and if this had coincided with a DSC promo. Sadly I don't know the dates yet, though hopefully I can get J seats for about $500-$1,000 more at a later date.

 

[drron]

OK I'll only address the point I was trying to make one more time We also have a fair idea of things like alliances, earn rates, product differences (eg who has the best lounges, the stopover benefits, the onboard hard/product, etc) and we will also pick our routes and options based on way more than most "average" people would - from FF earning goals, to trying a new product, to enjoying a stopover in say The Pier F lounge or -Canabas- at HKG.

There should be 2"n"s and the final a an I.

 

[RichardMEL]

There should be 2"n"s and the final a an I.

LOL!! great pick up. Glad to know SOMEONE reads my rambles!!!

Edited the original to correct

 

[kermatu]

That is a pretty decent discount for the F flights. I'm surprised they feel the need to offer one so soon. But not surprised it came after the DSC.

Am tempted to book for a holiday in June next year. But even at $10k - and the likelihood it would get me close to retaining P1 again - QF just doesn't seem to be a good F spend. EK makes it better, but as I prefer to stop en route DXB would be too hot for my liking at that time.

Pity there's been no suggestion of an improved F experience (eg, food) and confirmation that the lounges in SIN will not cater for F pax.

I probably should save my money anyway.