QF to Europe returns to the Kangaroo Route (via SIN)

[TheInsider]

If the domestic sectors are long and on the 73H, then that rules out those connections as viable options IMHO.
Currently, the flights between BNE and PER v.v. that connect with QF9/10 are both 73H services. Who would want to fly more than 5 hours in a 73H at anytime but to do it before/after a ~16 hour flight is just asking for trouble...

For you and the general population on here that's fine. But once again, the general public doesn't care. They won't even know the aircraft type when they are sitting on it.

 

[RichardMEL]

Nobody will fly BNE-PER-LHR. If anything they'd go BNE-SIN-LHR or even BNE-SYD-LHR... via MEL at a stretch.

And honestly in Y, to most pax, a 737 is the same as a 330 (I know people like JohnK will disagree but I'm talking about "most pax" not the "AFF Elite" ) . In J sure, but again it's fairly unlikely one would go BNE-PER-LHR or v.v. when there's a SIN connection there, or even SYD.

If you can save one or 2 hours off your total transit time and the price is right.. there are pax who wil simply not care.

 

[ChrisDPom]

RichardMEL, regarding your other post on splurging for PE, I really don't find it value for money. Would rather pay for Y emergency seats than doubling a Y cost to PE.

Real preference is to just upgrade to Business (helps having 1m points at present)

 

[RichardMEL]

RichardMEL, regarding your other post on splurging for PE, I really don't find it value for money. Would rather pay for Y emergency seats than doubling a Y cost to PE.

Real preference is to just upgrade to Business (helps having 1m points at present)

or course.. but your view on PE (which is similar to mine, incidently) probably doesn't reflect the general public. The whole PE product was designed for those willing and able to spend a bit more for a better experience.. the poor man's J if you will. Consider people like retirees with a bit of cash, but not enough for J (and no points or status)... or those who save up for a special trip somewhere and, as I said, "splurge" on it. I know people who buy PE as a better stepping stone to J but if the upgrade fails they at least get a better seat.

My point was about Joe Public, not about those of us in the minority with lots of points and status where upgrading to J is a real and realistic possibility and desire. For some PE is the goal.

 

[dajop]

Possibly.. but possibly not.


QF have clearly flagged F is not a priority and the fact that other airlines are either eliminating or downsizing their F offerings (or cabins) proves that actual revenue First demand is clearly on the decline. Sure, there will always be those well heeled, company CEO's, celebs etc who will only ever fly F, but honestly it's a small small number.

If you do some of the math, EK fit in 102 economy passengers between the two forward doors downstairs on their A380, whereas SQ currently have 12 F suites. Just looking at revenue, if you're taking said A380 all the way to London, selling Y for say $1400 return, that's $142,800. So to get the same revenue in F, you need to sell all but 2 of those suites for $14,280. (removing costs, I imagine the fuel for 90 extra passengers though exceeds the catering costs on 10 F pax). Is the demand there to fill those 10 seats with paying F passengers vs those 102 seats?

 

[ChrisDPom]

or course.. but your view on PE (which is similar to mine, incidently) probably doesn't reflect the general public. The whole PE product was designed for those willing and able to spend a bit more for a better experience.. the poor man's J if you will. Consider people like retirees with a bit of cash, but not enough for J (and no points or status)... or those who save up for a special trip somewhere and, as I said, "splurge" on it. I know people who buy PE as a better stepping stone to J but if the upgrade fails they at least get a better seat.

My point was about Joe Public, not about those of us in the minority with lots of points and status where upgrading to J is a real and realistic possibility and desire. For some PE is the goal.

With the amount of PE seats I see empty when wandering past to my Y emergency exit seat, I am not sure how successful it is.

And often PE does not get a promo when Y does, so can be 3 times the price. I also rarely if ever see follow up emails offering upgrades (to PE from Y).

Being normal height (195cm of 6'4" for Mr Hancock), I found the extra legroom in my one & only PE experiment not enough for me.

I am sure "height impaired" people (is this the proper PC term?) find PE a better fit but for the slightly better food at 2 to 3 times the price??

 

[mviy]

I bought PE tickets to the States last year. Only cost a little more than Flex Y at the time and used points to successfully upgrade in both directions. Same amount of points that a Flex Y passenger could use to upgrade to J however by taking my points they could take a smaller serve of points to upgrade that Flex Y passenger to PE or upgrade a cheaper upgradable Y passenger to PE.

Looking at some flights to the States now and PE is much more expensive than Flex Y so I'm looking to book Flex Y this time.

 

[Pushka]

Exit row PE seats are excellent. The rest - better than Y but I find quite expensive.

 

[ChrisDPom]

Have also posted this in the thread "Qantas Double Points and DSC offer" but relevant here as well.


One for us Plebs in Y (but there are also PE & Business deals).

This goes to show how weird Qantas are on their promos (or really trying to get Melbourne people to use the service via Perth).

A UK to Oz promo.

LHR-PER:

Tue 3 Apr 2018
Fri 29 Jun 2018
Economy Deal
Ends Mon 18 Sep 2017
Return Economy from
£987

LHR-PER-MEL (I checked the route):

Tue 3 Apr 2018
Fri 29 Jun 2018
Economy Deal
Ends Mon 18 Sep 2017
Return Economy from
£839

 

[mannej]

What different is that to other forms of hidden city pricing or prices through DXB for example?

 

[Pleb Status]

Nobody will fly BNE-PER-LHR. If anything they'd go BNE-SIN-LHR or even BNE-SYD-LHR... via MEL at a stretch.

You better tell QF that. Until the QF1/2 reroute via SIN, QF was expecting a lot of BNE/SYD/ADL-PER-LHR traffic....

 

[RichardMEL]

If you do some of the math, EK fit in 102 economy passengers between the two forward doors downstairs on their A380, whereas SQ currently have 12 F suites. Just looking at revenue, if you're taking said A380 all the way to London, selling Y for say $1400 return, that's $142,800. So to get the same revenue in F, you need to sell all but 2 of those suites for $14,280. (removing costs, I imagine the fuel for 90 extra passengers though exceeds the catering costs on 10 F pax). Is the demand there to fill those 10 seats with paying F passengers vs those 102 seats?

PAID demand...

on some routes, on some days, quite possibly... on others, not at all. QF is the same.

Why is SQ moving F to the upper deck and downsizing the number of suites if it's so successful and has so much demand?

And remember, even if anecdotally you take a bunch of flights in the F cabin of any airline - SQ, CX, QF, EK, EY and see them full.. you likely have no way of knowing how many are actually paid, revenue F vs staff standby, award travel, upgrades and the like.

Again, the airlines are making my argument for me by their actions in downsizing or removing F cabins.

However, other opinions are out there and that's fine.. that's what the internet is for. All are valid

 

[drron]

When BA still had F BNE-SIN I got a deal of pay J,fly F.
When it came to time to order for dinner the purser came to me and said drron would you like the lobster and I asked why.because you and the gentleman behind you are the only 2 paying customers.So I did indeed know how many free loaders there were in that full cabin.

 

[wandering_fred]

I'm a fan of PE (consider JNB-HKG-LAX) but I would almost never expect to pay for it ex-Australia (on any airline - well maybe on one of the LCCs)
And even though I have flown JFK-HKG and DOH-AKL the chances of my flying PER-LHR are zero and LHR-PER almost zero. In the meanwhile I will do my best to finagle a (oneworld) international flight into PER that doesn't arrive between 1900 and 0400.

Happy wandering

Fred

 

[dajop]

PAID demand...

Yes agreed, if F were so successful, airlines would be adding seats not removing them!

 

[mviy]

It's a bit chicken and egg though: The gap between F and J is getting less and less so the value from paying the extra for F is not as much as it used to be. Lie flat seats, direct aisle access regardless of which seat you're in with no one climbing over you etc. used to be exclusive to First Class. With less benefits from flying F it's not surprising less are willing to pay for it. However with less willing to pay for it, there's less investment in the product.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The whole PE product was designed for those willing and able to spend a bit more for a better experience.. the poor man's J if you will. Consider people like retirees with a bit of cash, but not enough for J (and no points or status)... or those who save up for a special trip somewhere and, as I said, "splurge" on it. I know people who buy PE as a better stepping stone to J but if the upgrade fails they at least get a better seat.

My point was about Joe Public, not about those of us in the minority with lots of points and status where upgrading to J is a real and realistic possibility and desire. For some PE is the goal.

That was before the airlines got greedy and before the current reduction in fuel prices. With QF demanding $6000 for PE to Europe, or $3600 'on sale', you have to compare this to airlines offering Europe for $4000 return in full-flat business class. But of course the blogs and 'media' sites rarely post those deals, preferring to plug the QF PE product.

If you do some of the math, EK fit in 102 economy passengers between the two forward doors downstairs on their A380, whereas SQ currently have 12 F suites. Just looking at revenue, if you're taking said A380 all the way to London, selling Y for say $1400 return, that's $142,800. So to get the same revenue in F, you need to sell all but 2 of those suites for $14,280. (removing costs, I imagine the fuel for 90 extra passengers though exceeds the catering costs on 10 F pax). Is the demand there to fill those 10 seats with paying F passengers vs those 102 seats?

There probably isn't much need for 14 or 15 F seats. Airlines could probably get away with 4 or 6. And let's face it, on QF the food is the same in both cabins, they only need one additional bar cart for premium beverages. But they make huge profits from the FF program, which must be providing enough income and incentive through upgrade opportunities, and outright awards, for them to continue to have huge F cabins.

 

[eds store]

Dubai. air con car to aircon hotel to air con mall etc etc. Not a walking city. I asked a local what Dubai translates to.
He said "Hot Concrete"

 

[Pushka]

Dubai. air con car to aircon hotel to air con mall etc etc. Not a walking city. I asked a local what Dubai translates to.
He said "Hot Concrete"

Fabulous weather there from November through to early May. Agree that May - September is just hot.

 

[TheBOSman]

Fabulous weather there from November through to early May. Agree that May - September is just hot.

I've only been to Dubai once, in a December. The Park Hyatt staff almost feared for me, while waiting for my limo to the airport to catch QF2 to SYD, that I was out in ~13C/55F weather with a light breeze without a jacket on. They seemed very worried I would be very cold. Now, I'm practically like a Canadian having grown up in Massachusetts in terms of weather, ~13C/55F is nothing for me .