QF to Haneda

[VAG newbie]

To be honest I really do not care where the HND flight originates from (so long as it is on the East Coast). Transitting in Australia would be much less of a hassle than flying into NRT in the wee hours of the morning.

That said, I think that SYD or MEL makes the best sense given that HND is much more convenient for business trips and that a larger portion of those going to and from BNE are part of the leisure market.

Although if you look at the pattern of ANA and JL (plus many other airlines including SQ), they use their best aircrafts and products on routes to NRT, not HND. SQ uses A380 and 77W with new J seats on SIN-NRT, and uses A330 for SIN-HND. I recently flew LAX-HND on ANA, and it was the old 2-3-2 angled lie flat with no first class (this is the normal rostered aircraft type). If it was LAX-NRT, it would have been the 4 class 77W equipped latest "square suites" F and staggered "Inspiration of Japan" J seats. Also, you will find awards to HND is a lot easier to find than to NRT.

Based on the pattern, it sounds like most airline treats NRT as more of a premium airport for business passengers and HND is for leisure market.

But as I said, I don't care either. As long as we start a direct BNE-TYO service. Actually I prefer JQ, as they have sales to Japan once every 3 months, and I am happy with their Star Class for the price I paid at sale fare (and the chance of collecting SC at J fare rate with QFF cheaply!). I use NRT as my *A hub to go to US and Europe, and I can fly ANA first class using LM for only 90000 miles one way.

 

[eosphoros]

Based on the pattern, it sounds like most airline treats NRT as more of a premium airport for business passengers and HND is for leisure market.

I agree (though CX has F out of HND and only J out of NRT if I am not mistaken). I am not sure what the reasons are for this but presumably the fact that NRT is larger is a factor. But the fact remains that HND is much more convenient for getting in and out of Tokyo. By way of example, it is not doubt true that LCY is a much more convenient airport for those attending to business in London. Nevertheless, LHR is clearly the premium airport for business passengers.

 

[Himeno]

Although if you look at the pattern of ANA and JL (plus many other airlines including SQ), they use their best aircrafts and products on routes to NRT, not HND. SQ uses A380 and 77W with new J seats on SIN-NRT, and uses A330 for SIN-HND.

SQ and CX are famous for changing aircraft (and seats) used for a regional Asia flight at the last minute. On my CX flights between HKG and SIN, TPE, ICN, NRT and HND, I've had their entire range of aircraft and seats. CX just puts an available aircraft on the regional Asia flights and doesn't really care what sort of seats it happens to have. In my last 4 CX HND-HKG flights, I've had a A330 with new seats, an A330 with old seats, a 747 with old seats and a 777 with new seats (in fact, that 777 HND-HKG flight used the same aircraft I boarded 3 hours later for JFK).
JL has been adding new config aircraft to HND flights just as much as to NRT flights. The aircraft on their TYO-SIN flights rotate between NRT and HND via SIN.

There are more long haul flights to NRT, so there are more long haul aircraft through there. Doesn't mean HND is getting a lower product.

BA uses 77Ws to NRT (14F/56J/44W/183Y) and 772s to HND (12F/48J/32W/127Y)

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Tg uses 787 to nrt. 744 to hnd with f

 

[Himeno]

So clearly, no the airlines don't view one TYO airport as premium and another as leisure. They view them both as simply "Tokyo".

 

[VAG newbie]

Tg uses 787 to nrt. 744 to hnd with f

TG's pattern makes no logic anyway. I still don't understand why they use A380 for CDG and 744 and 340 for LHR when logic would suggest LHR to be a higher demand market. (More French in Thailand????)

But with the 744 that goes to HND, the business class uses angle-lie flat with 2-3-2? 787 uses staggered fully lie flat? (Please correct me if I am wrong. TG's configuration is too complicated that I haven't got the full grasp)

 

[VAG newbie]

SQ and CX are famous for changing aircraft (and seats) used for a regional Asia flight at the last minute. On my CX flights between HKG and SIN, TPE, ICN, NRT and HND, I've had their entire range of aircraft and seats. CX just puts an available aircraft on the regional Asia flights and doesn't really care what sort of seats it happens to have. In my last 4 CX HND-HKG flights, I've had a A330 with new seats, an A330 with old seats, a 747 with old seats and a 777 with new seats (in fact, that 777 HND-HKG flight used the same aircraft I boarded 3 hours later for JFK).
JL has been adding new config aircraft to HND flights just as much as to NRT flights. The aircraft on their TYO-SIN flights rotate between NRT and HND via SIN.

There are more long haul flights to NRT, so there are more long haul aircraft through there. Doesn't mean HND is getting a lower product.

BA uses 77Ws to NRT (14F/56J/44W/183Y) and 772s to HND (12F/48J/32W/127Y)

Last minute swap doesn't count. Last minute swap is always due to operational need. So even if a flight that is filled with business class passenger on paid ticket, if their rostered flagship aircraft with premium product is faulty, rather than cancel the flight, they will use whatever aircraft that is available to fulfil the role rather than cancel the flight, and give some miles to the passengers as compensation.

But there is no doubt that NRT still has larger capacity and is still the main airport in Tokyo. Much like LHR is still the main airport in London. So I agree no premium or leisure, just depends on capacity and the type of aircraft each airport is capable of handling rather than the distance from the city. I don't think HND is capable of A380?

 

[Kangol]

Can anyone speculate on the potential change to timing of SYD-NRT? Is it likely they'll have a much earlier departure than the current 2220 QF21 departure time?
The late departure allows for more F lounge time

 

[Himeno]

Can anyone speculate on the potential change to timing of SYD-NRT? Is it likely they'll have a much earlier departure than the current 2220 QF21 departure time?
The late departure allows for more F lounge time

If the SYD departure times changes other then to account for daylight saving changes, it would become a morning departure (for NRT). NRT has a curfew and does not allow landing before 6am. HND does not have a curfew.
Any flight times for HND would depend on what block the HND slots are for (2300-0700 or 0700-2300).

 

[boomy]

If the SYD departure times changes other then to account for daylight saving changes, it would become a morning departure (for NRT). NRT has a curfew and does not allow landing before 6am. HND does not have a curfew.

Interesting HND doesn't have a curfew considering it's closer to the CBD.

 

[Programme]

Interesting HND doesn't have a curfew considering it's closer to the CBD.

Reading about the history behind the construction of NRT, it is not surprising. The wrangling that occurred during construction makes our NIMBYs look lame. Narita International Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyway, HND, despite being located closer to Tokyo, is mostly surrounded by port facilities and Tokyo Bay.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Reading about the history behind the construction of NRT, it is not surprising. The wrangling that occurred during construction makes our NIMBYs look lame. Narita International Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyway, HND, despite being located closer to Tokyo, is mostly surrounded by port facilities and Tokyo Bay.

Indeed . The third runway is built on the bay and aircraft depart over water and not anywhere near the city.

 

[Himeno]

Indeed . The third runway is built on the bay and aircraft depart over water and not anywhere near the city.

4th runway. Though most of HND is on reclaimed land.
HND was the busiest airport in Asia before PEK built its 3rd terminal.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

4th runway. Though most of HND is on reclaimed land.
HND was the busiest airport in Asia before PEK built its 3rd terminal.

oops, 4th.

Its quite impressive the way it is built on top of the water, part of it anyway.

Here it is for those who haven't seen it:

 

[docjames]

PER-HND anyone?

/QF speak on/

Where is this PER place? :idea:

 

[medhead]

It's been a long time since you've been able to pick up cheap status credits using JQ 'star class'

 

[VAG newbie]

It's been a long time since you've been able to pick up cheap status credits using JQ 'star class'

I don't know how you define cheap. But during sale at $599, extra $200 that buys you lounge access (irrelevant to me as I'm Qantas club), 6000+ miles and 120 sc is quite good for $799 oneway total for PE. ($1598 return, that's about as cheap as economy)

 

[medhead]

I don't know how you define cheap. But during sale at $599, extra $200 that buys you lounge access (irrelevant to me as I'm Qantas club), 6000+ miles and 120 sc is quite good for $799 oneway total for PE. ($1598 return, that's about as cheap as economy)

I'm referring to the fact that the price of the max bundle is not a fixed $200. Instead it increases for lower base fares.

 

[VAG newbie]

I'm referring to the fact that the price of the max bundle is not a fixed $200. Instead it increases for lower base fares.

Really? I didn't know that. Last time I purchased the max bundle during sale, it was $200 for business class. So I thought that was still cheap.

 

[JohnK]

Would be interesting to see JQ pushed off MEL-NRT replaced by QF for a change in addition to QF BNE-NRT flights!

The Empire Strikes Back?