QF9 / QF10 Perth

[downgraded]

Agree to that but even at the other end there is so many other ports in Europe that QF can’t and won’t serve. Even if I lived in Sydney or Melbourne it’s all well and good getting a nonstop flight to Paris, London or Rome but after 20hrs of flying the last thing I want to do is transit through there, wait for another hour or so and then jump on a Euro J connecter for 2-3hrs when I can just break the trip in half and have a wide body in comfort all the way. Sunrise will be perfect for those who want P2P but the price will reflect it unfortunately

Even taking just the UK. Sunrise = Syd-LHR, MEL-Lhr, and we already have Per-LHR, yet UK, population c.60m has much more appropriate airports for most of its population (Birmingham, Manchester, stanstead, Newcastle, Glasgow, Edinburgh. all better serve more of the Uk than LHR). Sunrise is a very one eyed/ one ended view of how an airline can service its customer base and the ME or Asia carriers will better serve the majority of Australians be it to the UK or anywhere else in Europe. No doubt sunrise will suit an elite slice of affluent Australians but most Australians won't be supporting the smaller vision QF and will be dependent upon other carriers to meet their travel aspirations.

 

[Daver6]

No, you're not just on different aircraft and flight numbers. You're on a narrow body domestic service rather than a wide body international service. The difference should be chalk and cheese, though perhaps not when on QF.

Book the A330 then if a narrow body is so terrible for you.

But you're right. QF should also fly the A380 and 787 flights from PER to SYD and MEL so people in PER don't have to fly on a domestic flight when heading to the US on QF.

 

[RichardMEL]

There is a dearth of 330s on PER runs. Sure they are there but less than there were...

 

[TheInsider]

No doubt sunrise will suit an elite slice of affluent Australians but most Australians won't be supporting the smaller vision QF and will be dependent upon other carriers to meet their travel aspirations.

People here said the same thing when the QF9/10 started.
It was all going to be a complete failure, it was all doom and gloom.

Post automatically merged: May 29, 2024

Axing QF9 from MEL to PER and funnelling pax via domestic routes doesn't mean eat coast to LHR is halved again. You're just on different aircraft and flight number. You're just upset that it's via a domestic flight first. It really isn't the end of the world.

Majority of pax on the QF9/10 were purely domestic passengers anyway.

 

[RSVKanga]

people in PER don't have to fly on a domestic flight when heading to the US on QF.

Or, fly an A330 between PER-AKL so PER customers can connect to QF3 and fly one-stop to the east US rather than bleed customers to ME airlines who offer one stop.

 

[RSVKanga]

It’s a bit off topic but I have a question about language. Does QF have enough French speaking cabin crew to cater for all QF33/34 flights?

 

[RichardMEL]

Or, fly an A330 between PER-AKL so PER customers can connect to QF3 and fly one-stop to the east US rather than bleed customers to ME airlines who offer one stop.

And what do you think the market demand for this is in pax/day?

I would imagine there would be more demand for service to LAX and west coast connections from PER than NYC (noting that DFW is also one stop via MEL/SYD)

And while NZ do fly a wide on PER-AKL, they also feed their hub. QF have nothing beyond there bar NYC (and I suppse a place like PPT via TN but that's a stretch).

Not only do QF not have spare 330s, I doubt there would be enough demand via either end to support it.

Now an A321XLR.. that may possiby work.....

 

[RSVKanga]

QF have nothing beyond there bar NYC

Really? Apart from JFK, they have 30+ domestic NZ codeshare destinations thanks to the Qantas-AirNZ partnership. They have Jetstar connections as well.

And of course, AKL is a destination in its own right.

I’m not sure what your point is because based on your analogy, you could say, “why is QF flying PER-SIN? They have nothing beyond there bar LHR.”

 

[bussyboy]

AMS-PER-AKL-JFK... i love this thought!

One can dream, right?

 

[justinbrett]

It would actually be shorter to run PER ANC JFK

 

[hutch]

Even taking just the UK. Sunrise = Syd-LHR, MEL-Lhr, and we already have Per-LHR, yet UK, population c.60m has much more appropriate airports for most of its population (Birmingham, Manchester, stanstead, Newcastle, Glasgow, Edinburgh. all better serve more of the Uk than LHR). Sunrise is a very one eyed/ one ended view of how an airline can service its customer base and the ME or Asia carriers will better serve the majority of Australians be it to the UK or anywhere else in Europe. No doubt sunrise will suit an elite slice of affluent Australians but most Australians won't be supporting the smaller vision QF and will be dependent upon other carriers to meet their travel aspirations.

Reality is, even if you loved Qantas and they delivered the same amazing service as Singapore or the ME carriers, at the same price, they could never serve all the European destinations. Project sunrise or not. Simple geography.

There are people who keep looking back 30 years when the aviation world was very different, and others who live in the reality where the Roo will be flying to all these new magical places, causing the ME carriers to go belly up (that could happen I suppose, but it won't be due to QF).

Qantas is an end of line carrier, with minimal international feed, serving a population spread out over a huge land, based in a country with relatively high taxes and wages (and yeah, I think that's a good thing). It cannot do everything people seem to think it should do (sorry Adelaide) and may have done in the past.

 

[RichardMEL]

Really? Apart from JFK, they have 30+ domestic NZ codeshare destinations thanks to the Qantas-AirNZ partnership. They have Jetstar connections as well.

I was responding to your point about JFK. I did not forget about domestic NZ, but major NZ destinations can still be reached one stop from PER eg WLG/CHC/ZQN. I am sure there is a huge demand for one stop PER-DUD thoigh...

Aside, one wonders how long the NZ partnership will last with VA back on the kiwi scene...

And of course, AKL is a destination in its own right.

indeed, but again, you wrre discussing international connections, and again, no offence to our WA friends, but the market to AKL as O&D and connecting, probably does not justify an A330(even if QF had lots spare).. but again, an A321..... is probably far more vuable.

I’m not sure what your point is because based on your analogy, you could say, “why is QF flying PER-SIN? They have nothing beyond there bar LHR.”

Lol. Easy. The plethora of 3K connections ex SIN, plus codeshares and partnerships on KL/AF, but realistically, mostly the jetstar asias spreading from SIN (oh and MH/JL).

Plus SIN probably has more O&D demand than AKL, but with all the connections from there, it makes more sense

It's a tad different to regional NZ imo.

 

[RichardMEL]

Qantas is an end of line carrier, with minimal international feed, serving a population spread out over a huge land, based in a country with relatively high taxes and wages (and yeah, I think that's a good thing). It cannot do everything people seem to think it should do (sorry Adelaide) and may have done in the papast.

This basically. NZ has the same issue.

ME3 work not just on costs and deep pockets, but geography too. Just as SIN and HKG are on routes to Europe and asia.


we don't have the pax demand for many of these places, even if we had the planes. Simple.

Your connecting carriers like SQ/QR/EK etc can because of going through their hubs.

 

[Quickstatus]

You're just upset that it's via a domestic flight first

Upset no. I don't have a preference on that route.
It's called BFOD...lots of other options.
737 + 787 or vs wide body for 2 sectors to LHR from the east coast, not even comparing price is a no brainer.

 

[levelnine]

You're just upset that it's via a domestic flight first.

Hold on. People aren't allowed to complain about a downgrade in service? lol

The delicious irony of this change is that MEL-based WPs will be able to start their journey to London in the Qantas First Class lounge flying on Qatar, but not Qantas.

 

[Quickstatus]

PER-LHR profitable as it is, would it have capacity for another 787 on that route ? (Assuming landing slot avail?)

The super long thins may entice me depending on the city pair.

 

[Daver6]

Or, fly an A330 between PER-AKL so PER customers can connect to QF3 and fly one-stop to the east US rather than bleed customers to ME airlines who offer one stop.

What flight is that exactly between PER - AKL?

 

[jukebox333]

There is a dearth of 330s on PER runs. Sure they are there but less than there were...

And when they are rostered, you have to pray to whatever your chosen diety is that they aren't subbed out for a 737 at the 11th hour... which happens waaaaay too many times.

 

[Cognac]

What flight is that exactly between PER - AKL?

I think the suggestion is that QF put some PER-AKL direct flight on. Which would suit me just fine if it was price competitive against the Air NZ flight, which I've done multiple times.

But as much as I'd love that option I don't think it makes sense when they have so many PER-MEL/SYD/BNE flights and then onwards to AKL. So in the meantime, unless I have business on the east coast to attend to I'll keep opting for the direct route.

You made an excellent point earlier about the domestic-international connection as well. Perth to West Coast North America requires a domestic connection if your flying QF, but heaven forbid anyone on the east coast should have to put up with a domestic flight when traveling internationally. If it's that important to people they should, as I've said before, vote with their wallet and select the flight that appeals to them be it QF via Singapore or another hub with someone else. I'll continue to use QF9/10 for my trips to the UK. Direct flights to Paris are also appealing. If I have to go elsewhere in Europe then I will consider other carriers to get to the port I need to get to and choose the most convenient for me.

 

[Daver6]

You made an excellent point earlier about the domestic-international connection as well. Perth to West Coast North America requires a domestic connection if your flying QF, but heaven forbid anyone on the east coast should have to put up with a domestic flight when traveling internationally. If it's that important to people they should, as I've said before, vote with their wallet and select the flight that appeals to them be it QF via Singapore or another hub with someone else. I'll continue to use QF9/10 for my trips to the UK. Direct flights to Paris are also appealing. If I have to go elsewhere in Europe then I will consider other carriers to get to the port I need to get to and choose the most convenient for me.

What's even worse about heading east to connect is the options are either a ridiculously early PER departure or a red eye. Then you have to deal with the disaster that is the SYD domestic to international transfer. Using east coast logic, QF really should have an international tag leg from PER to SYD with international service that takes you straight to the international terminal.