QF's Asia announcement

[JohnK]

Just received an email from QF stating my booking had changed. Please review and confirm. Mel to Sin on 9th June to depart at 10am and arrive at 1555. Same times on the way back as listed. Depart Sin 2105 and arrive Mel at 0645. Also a change of equipment to A333's, needless to say I'm not happy. Started as an A380 in J, then to a 744 and now a dirty old angled flat bed on a A333. Dumb!!!

Sorry to hear that and I am in a similar situation although not in Business class.

I have a 9:30am SYD-MEL flight due to arrive at 11:05am and they now have me departing MEL international at 10:00am. Clearly not going to make that connection. Well not without a time machine. Not too happy and I have gone from 43H on the 747 to no seat allocation on the A333 which I am not doing for that length of flight.

Now I also have some other flights on the same itinerary which are now not suitable to me. Do you think Qantas can refuse to change these flights as they are not really affected? They had better not refuse....

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I had a Hong Kong Perth Sydney flight changed to Hong kong Sydney with no loss of original routing status credits and the 12000 point inconvenience bonus. However I was booked to Hong Kong via Melbourne and the new timetable means my Sydney flight now leaves at 6.00am instead of 9.30am because the Hong Kong Melbourne flight now leaves at 9.35am instead of 1.30 pm. I explained to Qantas that I travel to the airport by train and the time of arrival at the airport would be 5.35am. I was then offered a 6.45am flight which they advised me would meet the transfer time constraints. I informed the agent that I dont like to be rushed and as a premium passenger enjoy the first lounge to relax before a flight. I suggested that they book me on the Sydney Hong Kong direct flight and just pay the original routing status credits. From my perspective this would be cheaper for Qantas and remove the tight time constraints which I always avoid. I was informed that this was a timetable change and as such I would have to accept the flights offered. Obviously all within the rules but from my perspective not very customer friendly and lacking some common sense when the problem is caused by widespread changes not the usual situation involving one off timetable changes. All my flights were in business.

I think you might have pushed a little hard perhaps they would have been happy to route you direct SYD-HKG, but to then ask, for a voluntary change, to also receive the original routing credit? That seems pushing it a bit. If you want the extra lounge time ask if they can swap to ex SYD.

 

[serfty]

...

Now I also have some other flights on the same itinerary which are now not suitable to me. Do you think Qantas can refuse to change these flights as they are not really affected? They had better not refuse....

See for the links to the QF FAQ's on this upthread - you have considerable flexibility, right down to the full refund of ordinarily non-refundable fares.

 

[Supersonic Swinger]

i think the logic on the FF program requires some consideration. you might earn double points as a WP, but you're paying double the points for an award + extraordinarily high fees and charges. AA is 90K one way AU-Europe in F. And access to preferred seating, F class lounge access, confirmed upgrades... The money saved on fuel surcharges alone by redeeming an AA award rather than a QF one would almost buy enough miles for a return biz class to Asia on CX via AA.

Sssshhhh.....!

I disagree, I think like most airlines these days, QF will end up consolidating services just to go to/from their hub. If you live in the other cities, you'll either have to resign yourself to taking a busride between terminals at SYD or go with the Asian or ME carriers.

I'm not sure why they didn't just form similar agreements with Cathay and Malaysian, fly their metal (in conjunction with the CX and MH flights) from all the major Australian capital cities to HKG and KUL, which provide virtual hubs to not just European but Asian destinations (with partners within oneworld).

Qantas has decided to basically hand over almost all their European flights to Emirates, effectively creating a virtual hub at DXB. The "connections" within Asia are a hodge-podge, and it's more the case that you'd be "resigning" yourself to stick to Qantas to get to Asian destinations.

 

[JohnK]

....i think the logic on the FF program requires some consideration. you might earn double points as a WP, but you're paying double the points for an award + extraordinarily high fees and charges. AA is 90K one way AU-Europe in F. And access to preferred seating, F class lounge access, confirmed upgrades... The money saved on fuel surcharges alone by redeeming an AA award rather than a QF one would almost buy enough miles for a return biz class to Asia on CX via AA.

Good points and if that is what a person wants then fine.

For me I do not care about class of travel. I look for value. Give me a bulkhead seat in economy and I am happy.

And to be honest I find it difficult for any airline to be able to beat a QF Oneworld award in economy for 140,000 points. Say I do ~70 QF flights a year SYD-BNE during my commute and in 6 years I have accumulated ~420,000 QFF points or ~3 Oneworld awards. So all I have to do is pay ~$1,000 each time and I get to round the world. Not a bad deal for all the hours and frustration I have spent commuting

Just hope Qantas are still around when I am ready to start redeeming next year....

 

[JohnK]

I received an email from QF this morning, changing the time of my QF 5 flight for June, and also changing equipment to a 333.

I actually checked the website yesterday, and at that stage it still was showing the old times and a 744, so it is taking QF several days to get all of the changes uploaded into Amadeus.

That is interesting. I was just on the phone to Qantas and QF5 end of April is supposed to be a 747 not an A330. Do not really want to re-book onto an A330.

 

[comforttravel]

And now back to the title of this thread.
To understand why these earlier flights to Asia are such a retrograde step to those outside of BNE, SYD, and MEL, I’ll give you the proposed transit times that pax from ADL have had thrust upon them.
From ADL the first aircraft to SYD is 06:00 (x Sunday), MEL 06:05 (x Sunday) and BNE 06:15 (x Sat Sun). The second and third flights to SYD are 7am and 8am, and the second flight to MEL is 7:30am. The proposed transit times in the eastern cities to connect from ADL to Asia, compared to current transit times (minutes) are;
[TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR]
[TD]SYD to
[/TD]
[TD]proposed
[/TD]
[TD]current
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] - SIN QF81
[/TD]
[TD]75
[/TD]
[TD]220
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] - HKG
[/TD]
[TD]90
[/TD]
[TD]180
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] - BKK
[/TD]
[TD]75
[/TD]
[TD]230
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]MEL to
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] - SIN
[/TD]
[TD]70
[/TD]
[TD]345
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] - HKG
[/TD]
[TD]100
[/TD]
[TD]335
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]BNE to
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] - SIN
[/TD]
[TD]75
[/TD]
[TD]275
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] - HKG
[/TD]
[TD]75
[/TD]
[TD]115
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Who in their right mind would consider ~75min a suitable transit time when for example arriving at SYD dom, say gate 10, walk to gate 1, wait for bus then travel to SYD int, go through customs, scanning, wave to QF lounge as you go past, and get to gate say 15min before departure. And who says your luggage would be unloaded from dom, transferred and loaded into int. I too don’t like to be rushed and would like to enjoy the int lounge. Don’t forget, to catch a 6am flight, you’re up much much earlier.

Thus the first flight from ADL is the only practical time to depart, as long as it’s not a Sunday. Even so with the first flight it would be hard pressed to make a connection in a timely fashion. I bet the person who thought up this regimen didn’t give a thought to those who don’t live near an international terminal. But they dress up the message as an enhancement! It’s a big balls up of mammoth proportions. Come on Qantas, admit your mistake in these enhancements . . . don’t tell me you haven’t read how intensely bad the feelings of your pax are towards this public company and remember, you’ll have to answer to it in a public forum (AGM). People won’t forget at November’s Qantas AGM.

 

[JohnK]

See for the links to the QF FAQ's on this upthread - you have considerable flexibility, right down to the full refund of ordinarily non-refundable fares.

I understand about the flexibility. It was a real cheap booking and I really do not want to cancel.

By the way I was just being cheeky in wanting to change some flights the week before on the same booking and totally unrelated and unaffected by the schedule changes. The lady on the phone earlier said I had better talk to the premium team when I make my decision on which flights I want and they will probably change the other flights as well without charge. Wait and see.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I accept comforttravel that the connection times have been reduced. I would not like a 75 min connection time SYD dom->int. However in MEL it would be ok.

But perhaps the issue of the F lounge is not such a big consideration in the minds of F passengers? If you are paying an F fare then a bottle of mid priced champagne is not really worth getting to the airport hours in advance. Nor is a 50 minute spa treatment (you'd have your own preferred spa you'd go to somewhere in SYD or MEL where you could have a longer treatment, or you can get a massage in BKK, SIN or HKG). As for breakfast, well you kind of get a good meal on the plane. Many F pax are quite happy to arrive at the airport as late as possible and go.

So is it for business class pax, and for those travelling economy that want a bit of something nice before they fly? If that is the case, I'm not sure whether the re-timing of the flights would be such a priority.

i prefer mid morning departures because the roads are generally a bit quieter.

 

[browski]

3 points.

1. Adelaide people still have the Qantas Group preferred option of flying QF 754 on a quality 737 service to DRW with a timing of 8.40am-11.15am. Which (for pax who don't like to be rushed), has an excellent 7 hour connection with the JQ63 service to Singapore (6.20pm-9.20pm). Methinks you doth protest too much.

2. Why do JohnK and others dislike the A330? Seems like a fine wide-bodied aircraft to me. I can understand if the J seat is sub-standard, but in Y is there really any difference to a 744 or 380?

3.Here's my take on the AN demise. In the height of AN's woes, I spoke to a AN executive who was complaining about unprofitable routes like CNS. I queried why AN just didn't cease the CNS service, and he replied ".......and what, just leave those routes to Qantas!". I said, yes they should, but they didn't. In a free market economy, QFi abandoning ports like PER, ADL, CNS, DRW OOL, should allow another Oz carrier to stepup and fill the breach if they think a buck can be made there. VA fly PER-HKT and ADL-DPS 5 times a week; albeit on a 737. Shouldn't be difficult to swing a VA service PER/ADL-SIN 4 times per week if there was a buck in it.

 

[markis10]

3.Here's my take on the AN demise. In the height of AN's woes, I spoke to a AN executive who was complaining about unprofitable routes like CNS. I queried why AN just didn't cease the CNS service, and he replied ".......and what, just leave those routes to Qantas!". I said, yes they should, but they didn't. In a free market economy, QFi abandoning ports like PER, ADL, CNS, DRW OOL, should allow another Oz carrier to stepup and fill the breach if they think a buck can be made there. VA fly PER-HKT and ADL-DPS 5 times a week; albeit on a 737. Shouldn't be difficult to swing a VA service PER/ADL-SIN 4 times per week if there was a buck in it.

That same exec does not work for Wantas now by chance??

 

[Dmac6345]

Don't get me wrong, the A330 is a
fine bird. I actually like flying on it. I do Mel to Syd and Mel to Per many time a year and try and make my travel around the A330 timetable. However, I originally booked on an A380 because I like to "J" experience. I can't stand to Angle Flat Bed for an overnight flight longer than 4 hours. Replace it with a Mark II and I will be much more happy.

 

[Flying Fox]

Just received an email from QF stating my booking had changed. Please review and confirm. Mel to Sin on 9th June to depart at 10am and arrive at 1555. Same times on the way back as listed. Depart Sin 2105 and arrive Mel at 0645. Also a change of equipment to A333's, needless to say I'm not happy. Started as an A380 in J, then to a 744 and now a dirty old angled flat bed on a A333. Dumb!!!

Pray that they don't change it to a 767 International

 

[Anna]

Who in their right mind would consider ~75min a suitable transit time

Exactly. I know from bitter experience that 75 min dom - int transit is not enough on QF flights at SYD, MEL, and BNE. Even if I make it to the flight, the chance of my bag also making it is low. Plus, it only takes a 20 min delay on your incoming flight and suddenly you're in panic mode.

the A330 is a fine bird. I actually like flying on it

I like flying on it in J, but if I happen to want to fly W then the A330 is no good is it? I didn't think QF had W fitted in any of the A330s. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that.

 

[mannej]

I like flying on it in J, but if I happen to want to fly W then the A330 is no good is it? I didn't think QF had W fitted in any of the A330s. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that.

You get those who argue that the latest few 330's that QF have got W fitted instead of J!

As for the J equation, isn't there still a chance that you will end up on a sloped bed in a 747 anyway? So I don't get why questions weren't asked with the change from a 380 to a 747 and not the 747 to a 330?

 

[ajw373]

You get those who argue that the latest few 330's that QF have got W fitted instead of J!

They are of course the domestic A330's where in reality J is premium economy.

 

[moa999]

Exactly. I know from bitter experience that 75 min dom - int transit is not enough on QF flights at SYD, MEL, and BNE. Even if I make it to the flight, the chance of my bag also making it is low. Plus, it only takes a 20 min delay on your incoming flight and suddenly you're in panic mode.

But unlikely to be delays on the 6am services from most ports.
I suspect most of these early morning services will wait for customers and QF will have to get very good at managing customers through International Connections early in the morning.
While the WPs with First Lounge access aren't happy about the transit time, I suspect for most joe public with no lounge access they would see it as a good thing (so long as the bags make it!)

 

[Anna]

But unlikely to be delays on the 6am services from most ports.

You're right that there's rarely a take-off delay, but my experience is that there is often a congestion delay trying to land in SYD when on the 6am service.

Of course, on the rare occasion that there was a cancellation of the 6am service for mechanical reasons, you would often get put on to QF82 instead

 

[V1213]

The A330 discussion amuses me.
SYD and MEL are now getting the Asian service that PER (and ADL) has had for years. You're literally getting the planes we were seeing!
I understand that the product is inferior (no Skybed 2s & domestic 330s have better Y seats!) and there's no W, but you still have flights at all. Us PER/ADL people have never had better options and now we have almost no options... welcome to our world.

A few people have discussed 320neos/VA 737s. Fact is the 738s that QF already has can (and have on occasion) operate PER-SIN, so if QF thinks demand doesn't warrant multiple 332 flights they could downgrade to 738s. Would the market entertain domestic J seats to SIN? The flight time is comparable to PER-SYD and PER-BNE, both of which feature overnight flights with dom J seats rather than flatbeds, and QF could use the BSI 738s with better IFE than the international 333s and 332s so Y pax would at least get a better deal.
I doubt it would be worthwhile for QF to maintain a sub-fleet of 738s with an international J product, so this would only make sense if the market could handle domestic J.
Although, they could just remove J from the equation and fly the route with 3K 320s... oh, wait.

 

[Awesom Andy]

3 points.

1. Adelaide people still have the Qantas Group preferred option of flying QF 754 on a quality 737 service to DRW with a timing of 8.40am-11.15am. Which (for pax who don't like to be rushed), has an excellent 7 hour connection with the JQ63 service to Singapore (6.20pm-9.20pm). Methinks you doth protest too much.

2. Why do JohnK and others dislike the A330? Seems like a fine wide-bodied aircraft to me. I can understand if the J seat is sub-standard, but in Y is there really any difference to a 744 or 380?

3.Here's my take on the AN demise. In the height of AN's woes, I spoke to a AN executive who was complaining about unprofitable routes like CNS. I queried why AN just didn't cease the CNS service, and he replied ".......and what, just leave those routes to Qantas!". I said, yes they should, but they didn't. In a free market economy, QFi abandoning ports like PER, ADL, CNS, DRW OOL, should allow another Oz carrier to stepup and fill the breach if they think a buck can be made there. VA fly PER-HKT and ADL-DPS 5 times a week; albeit on a 737. Shouldn't be difficult to swing a VA service PER/ADL-SIN 4 times per week if there was a buck in it.

1. The extremely basic QP (dom and int use the same lounge) shuts at 3:30pm.

2. The A330 is a good aircraft, with a config that's mostly out of date. J is inferior. Y+ is missing. At least you have gate-to-gate IFE in Y which SQ doesn't, but they never advertise it so nobody ever knows or uses it at the gate.

3. When so many competitors seem to be able to fly routes that you deem to be unprofitable, then the routes aren't the problem - YOU are the problem. You are basically shooting the messengers who are telling you to fix your business, and soon you'll have nobody left to shoot but yourself.