RedQ or Red Herring?

[wilco]

According to the AFR today there are reports that RedQ is going to be shelved due to economic uncertainty in Europe.

Global uncertainty hits Qantas (Note it's paywalled)

And so it finally comes full circle......

Personally, I could not see how it was ever going to work.

 

[bugayev]

RedQ is dead..

Qantas to abandon plan for new premium airline in Asia - report | News.com.au

Looks like the RedQ plan is now on the shelf!

 

[ajw373]

Re: RedQ is dead..

Qantas to abandon plan for new premium airline in Asia - report | News.com.au

Looks like the RedQ plan is now on the shelf!

Makes you wonder if it got all too hard from a regulatory view point.

 

[yohy?!]

Nothing about the idea sounded right from the beginning, just a bunch of spin and smokescreens. When are they going to wake up and realise the strongest part of the group is not Orange Star but QF itself and stop trashing it.

RedQ now DeadQ - Hooray!

 

[simongr]

Nothing about the idea sounded right from the beginning, just a bunch of spin and smokescreens. When are they going to wake up and realise the strongest part of the group is not Orange Star but QF itself and stop trashing it.

RedQ now DeadQ - Hooray!

Did you ever read anything about RedQ? It was not intended to be a JQ style airline at all. This was meant to be QF getting "back" into the premium airline game NOT extending JQ. Sadly with RedQ dead I think you are more likely to see an increase in JQ activities especially as they have already announced a heap of expansions. The fact that a new premium airline failed before it started simply "proves" that the JQ model is the way to go.

 

[oz_mark]

Everything I could find on this apparently confirmed report, referred back to an AFR article, which is here: Qantas Asia plan under threat

It seems to me that reading it, is that they are looking at doing the RedQ thing later, but in the meantime looking at doing some work with Malaysian.

Not sure they will move their hib from Singapore though - but I could see Qantas flying to KUL if anything comes of this,

 

[wilco]

Everything I could find on this apparently confirmed report, referred back to an AFR article, which is here: Qantas Asia plan under threat

It seems to me that reading it, is that they are looking at doing the RedQ thing later, but in the meantime looking at doing some work with Malaysian.

Not sure they will move their hib from Singapore though - but I could see Qantas flying to KUL if anything comes of this,

So QF wants to do with MH what VA/DJ has done with SQ?? QF is so far ahead of the game that they are actually behind. Good job QF!!

 

[mannej]

So QF wants to do with MH what VA/DJ has done with SQ?? QF is so far ahead of the game that they are actually behind. Good job QF!!

You can look at it that way. However you also forget that QF are part of Oneworld, and do have alliances outside of that as well (9W for one). If you take that second option, you could state that they are adding to their list of partners that they do already have.

 

[oz_mark]

So QF wants to do with MH what VA/DJ has done with SQ?? QF is so far ahead of the game that they are actually behind. Good job QF!!

Seems that way, although there has been this whole on-again, off-again thing with Malaysia happening for a few years.

 

[medhead]

And, of course, Malaysian is joining Oneworld.

 

[simongr]

So QF wants to do with MH what VA/DJ has done with SQ?? QF is so far ahead of the game that they are actually behind. Good job QF!!

Just to be explicit on what others have posted - VA/DJ did not invent alliances, partner airlines or codeshare partners. They are VERY behind QF in this regard.

 

[Mwenenzi]

From Qantas 'still in talks' on Asia carrier - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Qantas 'still in talks' on Asia carrier

Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce has rejected reports that he is dumping plans to establish a full-service airline in Asia in favour of a deeper alliance with Malaysian Airlines.
<snip>
"We believe that a new premium airline in Asia is important for us," Mr Joyce told The World Today.
<snip>

 

[yohy?!]

Did you ever read anything about RedQ? It was not intended to be a JQ style airline at all. This was meant to be QF getting "back" into the premium airline game NOT extending JQ. Sadly with RedQ dead I think you are more likely to see an increase in JQ activities especially as they have already announced a heap of expansions. The fact that a new premium airline failed before it started simply "proves" that the JQ model is the way to go.

RedQ or JQ or whatever - my point was that the QF brand should be the focus and the future.

 

[777]

I think the fact that they they've ordered a fleet but not yet found a country to put them in is a sign the plan is either totally half-coughd or an elaborate decoy. If there's a coherent plan behind it they have done a lousy job of articulating it.

My money would be on "decoy" but I don't think current QF management could actually pull off something that complex. It requires foresight, smart negotiating skills and clever strategy. In the period Alan Joyce has been CEO the share price has tanked, they've lost market share, the employees hate him, Qantas' hard run reputation for safety and quality has taken a hammering and the company has gone consistently backwards by any measure you want to use.

If the PR is to be believed the best decision Qantas have done under AJ is to ground the entire airline. When shutting down your entire organisation is your masterstroke the bar is set pretty bloody low.

 

[Robert K]

why would qantas cancel the expansion? did AJ suddenly find a few million paying passengers somewhere in the outback?

 

[drron]

I think the fact that they they've ordered a fleet but not yet found a country to put them in is a sign the plan is either totally half-coughd or an elaborate decoy. If there's a coherent plan behind it they have done a lousy job of articulating it.

My money would be on "decoy" but I don't think current QF management could actually pull off something that complex. It requires foresight, smart negotiating skills and clever strategy. In the period Alan Joyce has been CEO the share price has tanked, they've lost market share, the employees hate him, Qantas' hard run reputation for safety and quality has taken a hammering and the company has gone consistently backwards by any measure you want to use.

If the PR is to be believed the best decision Qantas have done under AJ is to ground the entire airline. When shutting down your entire organisation is your masterstroke the bar is set pretty bloody low.

Now come on.It has been said before-a minority of the new order was for RedQ.The expansion of JQ in Asia + replacing the JQ fleet was a big part of the order and that was said right at the beginning.
So lets look at VA.Started a service to JNB then realised the plane really could not do it economically.And how many flights now to coughet?

 

[777]

Now come on.It has been said before-a minority of the new order was for RedQ.

So, what do you suggest is the right number of planes to order for an airline that does not exist or have permission to fly into or out of any country?

So lets look at VA.Started a service to JNB then realised the plane really could not do it economically.And how many flights now to coughet?

And the comparison is what exactly? Agreed it was poor route planning decision but that is very different to not having a country that you can fly from.

The correct comparison would be VA announcing that it was going to set up a new airline in Africa without knowing which country it was going to be based in (not a minor detail), not having secured permission to operate in *any* country and then announcing to the world it had gone an ordered a whole bunch of planes to fly between this non-existant place and other non-existant places. I'm not sure why this plan is considered equally laughable.

 

[simongr]

And the comparison is what exactly? Agreed it was poor route planning decision but that is very different to not having a country that you can fly from.

The correct comparison would be VA announcing that it was going to set up a new airline in Africa without knowing which country it was going to be based in (not a minor detail), not having secured permission to operate in *any* country and then announcing to the world it had gone an ordered a whole bunch of planes to fly between this non-existant place and other non-existant places. I'm not sure why this plan is considered equally laughable.

I think it is as big a mistake to sell tickets, train and employ people for a route that then is uneconomic. Nothing changed on the route - it was a bad choice. If QF do kill off RedQ then at least they have made the decision before they waste a bunch of money.

 

[markis10]

And the comparison is what exactly? Agreed it was poor route planning decision but that is very different to not having a country that you can fly from.

I agree, what is the comparison, after all it was not to long ago that the red tail went to KUL, TPE and PHT as well as a few other destinations no longer served such as Harare and BOS, I expect South Africa ops were relying on a ETOPs change that never came!

 

[777]

What i find weirdest about this whole concept is the lack of incredulity about the idea that KUL and SIN are somehow interchangeable. They have to be two totally different business models.

In SIN QF have considerable feed from Aus, they would be operating against an incumbent carrier from a rival alliance and they would own 49% of a business where the other 51% has to be owned by a Singaporean investor or investors.

That may or may not be a good plan but consider the alternative...

In KUL QF have *no feed* from their own services. They would be competing with a new partner in their own alliance and established LCC with a considerable stake in their partner. They would still be a minority shareholder but they would have to find a totally different partner or partners to own the majority of the business.

Seriously, if you presented a business plan to a 3rd year commerce class that had so many crucial variables unresolved you'd be failed. It's not that neither plan is capable of working but if you are ordering planes before you've locked down the basics chances are either playing a very elaborate game (which is probably not really about founding an airline) or you are making it up as you go along.