Reduction in Transfer Rates to Velocity/Krisflyer

[MEL_Traveller]

This issue was investigated by ACCC some time ago too so may be worth a complaint to them

ACCC ends investigation of proposed retrospective point value changes to the NAB Rewards Program | ACCC

In this case they forced (though NAB wont admit it) NAB to ringfence existing points accrued.

Excellent! Thanks.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

This issue was investigated by ACCC some time ago too so may be worth a complaint to them

ACCC ends investigation of proposed retrospective point value changes to the NAB Rewards Program | ACCC

In this case they forced (though NAB wont admit it) NAB to ringfence existing points accrued.

Thanks burmans - you are a STAR!

A flood of emails into ACCC might certainly add some weight if required.

 

[ninja-tim]

If it helps anyone, this is what I sent to Citibank (via the Messages facility in Citibank Online):

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....-velocity-krisflyer-71803-13.html#post1339186

Thanks Beta, sent an email to them showing my/your disgust.

Requested points of 93k points for devaluation of points and 26k points for 90 days worth of lost points post-conversion and 120k extra for compensation of stress etc, which I doubt they would give. I guess if you don't ask, you shall not receive.

 

[Reggie78]

So I just called - their interpretation on no notice required is in 6.2.a. They are saying that they did not change the value of the copnversions, and that it's not them doing it, they didn't need to inform us...

I am waiting for a callback with 'options' to compensate me. I would only accept an upgrade to Prestige fee-free-for-life (probably asking a bit much...), of which I have been told will not happen.

Looks like I am leaving Citi...

 

[ninja-tim]

So I just called - their interpretation on no notice required is in 6.2.a. They are saying that they did not change the value of the copnversions, and that it's not them doing it, they didn't need to inform us...

I am waiting for a callback with 'options' to compensate me. I would only accept an upgrade to Prestige fee-free-for-life (probably asking a bit much...), of which I have been told will not happen.

Looks like I am leaving Citi...

Should have told them your own options for compensation, otherwise they'll probably come back with 2,000 point compensation or the likes. Not really worth the time you waste calling them to show your disgust with them.

 

[M@rcoPolo]

So I just called - their interpretation on no notice required is in 6.2.a. They are saying that they did not change the value of the conversions

Did you challenge this point? Clearly the conversion value did change!

 

[Reggie78]

Did you challenge this point? Clearly the conversion value did change!

I did, but the response was still pointing back to the conversion costs with Visa/Mastercard and the Airline, and that it wasn't their decision.

Also argued against the fact that a Point isn't 'Goods or Services', that they only become services after they have been redeemed for something tangible - like an airline ticket or a toaster. Up till then they are virtual currency.

 

[ninja-tim]

It's really hard to argue with call centre operators. I assume they are just reading off a script and don't have the expertise to interpret T&C's properly without consulting a supervisor/manager.

 

[tharaka]

What I find interesting here is that;

1. Velocity would increase the rates same time they conducted 15% bonus program, then
2. Not include Citi on the bonus transfer program
3. Citi being the Virgin Money partner for their cards!! Showing some cracks in the partnership? Either one of the partners are less interested perhaps? or is Citi Simply trying to move people from some of the Platinum and Signature cards to Virgin Money cards??

 

[dajop]

What I find interesting here is that;

1. Velocity would increase the rates same time they conducted 15% bonus program, then
2. Not include Citi on the bonus transfer program
3. Citi being the Virgin Money partner for their cards!! Showing some cracks in the partnership? Either one of the partners are less interested perhaps? or is Citi Simply trying to move people from some of the Platinum and Signature cards to Virgin Money cards??

It's all the fault of Velocity, oh and Krisflyer, oh and QFF, all simultaneously putting up the charge for their points. It has nothing at all to do with Citi, they are the victims in all this.

 

[CJEMNMAC]

I will also add my last phone call I asked operator to get a manger to discuss, manager came to the phone and gave the same scripted response.

I asked her to please escalate higher again and I will wait while she opens a case in the system and provides me with a reference number, to which she did.

Funny how the 6.2 clause reference ( according to her does not apply for this change ). I asked how ? she advises only the earn changes must be notified by the 90 day..

Clearly, the stories are different to everyone.... Have to wait a further 3 days for the phone back now

 

[anat0l]

Whoever instituted this change at Citibank obviously must not have consulted their legal department, or they have a pretty poor legal department.

In the wake of the NAB ACCC incident, this seems to be a simple walk into a trap for Citibank, unless something else is very different here.


If Citibank did / was forced to make up the points, would people prefer (a) a transfer of points at the old rates, but limited to one transfer per programme at those rates and only until a set time in the future; or, (b) a compensation of Citibank points proportional to the devaluation based on the balance of points on the first day that the lower rates were effective?

 

[M@rcoPolo]

Funny how the 6.2 clause reference ( according to her does not apply for this change ). I asked how ? she advises only the earn changes must be notified by the 90 day..

Funny indeed - I saved a copy of the T&Cs just in case they decide to "enhance" them and the part in bold below conveniently disappears

If we change the rate at which all Points in the program are generally earned or converted we will give you 90 days written notice of that change;

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Whoever instituted this change at Citibank obviously must not have consulted their legal department, or they have a pretty poor legal department.

In the wake of the NAB ACCC incident, this seems to be a simple walk into a trap for Citibank, unless something else is very different here.


If Citibank did / was forced to make up the points, would people prefer (a) a transfer of points at the old rates, but limited to one transfer per programme at those rates and only until a set time in the future; or, (b) a compensation of Citibank points proportional to the devaluation based on the balance of points on the first day that the lower rates were effective?

I think (a) is a good start. It would be nice if they would extend previous earnings:conversion for another 90 days (ie the notice period).

If the IT system has been changed, and can't be rolled back to accommodate previous points, then I guess a lump sum of additional points to make up for the shortfall would be ok. As long as we are back in the same position. I don't know if there's a case for compensation 'over and above' fir distress and inconvenience.

 

[ted123]

I have also saved the t&c's. You never know with ****ty bank.

 

[burmans]

So I just called - their interpretation on no notice required is in 6.2.a. They are saying that they did not change the value of the copnversions, and that it's not them doing it, they didn't need to inform us.

If this is their argument their comment to Pointhacks may well come back to haunt them as they clearly state that they reviewed their rewards program and made the adjustment, there is no reference to Krysflyer or Virgin (and are we seriously meant to believe these two FF schemes made the decision to change independently on exactly the same date!).

 

[burmans]

Funny how the 6.2 clause reference ( according to her does not apply for this change ). I asked how ? she advises only the earn changes must be notified by the 90 day..

Clearly, the stories are different to everyone.... Have to wait a further 3 days for the phone back now

Statements like this are good for us though, clearly they are trying to interpret the T&C's on the run and in a way that benefits Citi, this type of behaviour is exactly what we want them to do as it wont go down well with either FOS or ACCC that they feel they can ignore T&C's so wilfully.

 

[lmere12]

Remember it is not only SQ and VA that has devalued. QF did also on the citi business card. So that story to me is BS

 

[asg29e]

Funny indeed - I saved a copy of the T&Cs just in case they decide to "enhance" them and the part in bold below conveniently disappears

If we change the rate at which all Points in the program are generally earned or converted we will give you 90 days written notice of that change;

This mob never stops. So now they have changed the Ts and Cs. Does anyone know off hand how much notice they are meant to give before doing this?

Edit: Sorry, misunderstood. Just in case they do this. Good thinking. Wouldn't put it past them.

 

[Isochronous]

Correct. Points are a medium of exchange.