Reduction in Transfer Rates to Velocity/Krisflyer

[burmans]

I will also add my last phone call I asked operator to get a manger to discuss, manager came to the phone and gave the same scripted response.

I asked her to please escalate higher again and I will wait while she opens a case in the system and provides me with a reference number, to which she did.

Funny how the 6.2 clause reference ( according to her does not apply for this change ). I asked how ? she advises only the earn changes must be notified by the 90 day..

Clearly, the stories are different to everyone.... Have to wait a further 3 days for the phone back now

As I've noted before I'm not a fan of talking to Citibank given they never seem to resolve anything over the phone, but if I was ringing I be responding along the lines of "fine, lets see if FOS agrees with you then that this only covers earn changes when the T&C's clearly state earn or conversion".

Am not necessarily take it to FOS just yet but in my experience even the mention of FOS changes attitudes immediately.

 

[Buzzard]

Citi just replied to my Facebook post:

Hi, Buzz, we're sorry to hear of the impact at your end. We continually review our rewards program to ensure it provides value for all of our customers and any changes made are always in line with the rewards terms and conditions. We also believe our rewards program continues to provide excellent value for our customers. However, if you would like us to get in touch, please PM us directly and we'll happily reach out.

 

[Jezza8888]

Most people feel these small attacks on consumers are not worth fighting. I believe they are and that one must have the right weapon.


I have a lawyer friend of mine who I normally pay $100 to send proper legal demand letters for consumer matters. The amount of I have received in compensation from banks and other entities far outweighs the small fee paid. I have had him write a letter for this Citibank and it is an extremely good letter.

Please message me if you would like his contact details

 

[turnip666]

I see many complaints on their FB page. Hopefully this keeps up

 

[VAG newbie]

I think we should all stop phoning.
1. The phone agents are powerless to resolve any issue. Even their supervisors are not authorized to meet huge demands. Maybe just a few thousand points that's all they can offer.
2. They can say whatever they want, just like we can demand whatever we want. Unless an official statement is put in writing nothing is liable. That is why all of their written response so far is bullock.

 

[CJEMNMAC]

As I've noted before I'm not a fan of talking to Citibank given they never seem to resolve anything over the phone, but if I was ringing I be responding along the lines of "fine, lets see if FOS agrees with you then that this only covers earn changes when the T&C's clearly state earn or conversion".

Am not necessarily take it to FOS just yet but in my experience even the mention of FOS changes attitudes immediately.

Yes burmans i agree here. As others have also now commented the phone operators are powerless.

I did say " what is my next step, the FOS ? " and her reply was " well, we don't want this to go to the ombudsman " but as is very very evident, phone calls = waste.

I have since sent the issue in writing via messages in my online account.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Most people feel these small attacks on consumers are not worth fighting. I believe they are and that one must have the right weapon.


I have a lawyer friend of mine who I normally pay $100 to send proper legal demand letters for consumer matters. The amount of I have received in compensation from banks and other entities far outweighs the small fee paid. I have had him write a letter for this Citibank and it is an extremely good letter.

Please message me if you would like his contact details

Is it possible to just copy and paste contents here Jezza?

Obviously exclude all and any personal info.

 

[heisenberg]

Spent about an hour on the phone yesterday calling on behalf of my boss (let's call her Skyler).

Skyler stood to lose (what I calculated) $160k worth of points value.

Call Centre Operator (let’s call him Jessie) tried to argue the 'goods & services point’ at which time I respectfully disagreed and then began to recite the T&Cs (putting emphasis in bold):

"If we change the rate at which all Points in the program are generally earned or converted we will give you 90 days written notice of that change"

Jessie to offered 5000 points. I scoffed and ask if he could see Skyler's points balance (in excess of 18 million points).

Jessie kept putting me on hold and referring to a supervisor.

Seemed like Jessie (with direction from his supervisor) was putting pressure on me to formally request that we transfer all 16 million points across at the old transfer rates (1.5:1). I knew Skyler wouldn't want her points stored at some crummy airline lock up storage, having to constantly check and spray for insects. Never knowing if they were just going to expire at any time.

I stopped him and said "obviously you are speaking to a supervisor, let me list exactly what Skyler would like for this issue to be resolved and for Skyler not to be disadvantaged by this change of transfer rates, then you can present it to your supervisor"

So I gave Skyler's demands...

- compensation of 6.4 million Citi Points
- plus about 200k of future lost points due to lack of 90 day notice

Jessie noted it all down and said it would take 3-5 business days to get a result. I have to say, he was very polite throughout and I was too. He said 'Yo' a little too often for my liking. No case number, only record of this is his name and his extension which apparently will link to all the file notes. I did press him several times for more, something like a case number or call log, he couldn't give anything. Don't know if I was duped here? Jessie knows the business side of this far more than I. I'm just the cook who accrues the points.

------------

So that is where it is at. Let’s see what they come back with. It did really feel like they would have processed a 16 million points transfer to Kris/Velocity at the old transfer rate.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

heisenberg - love it! If you have no luck from here I have only one suggestion - 'Better call Saul'!

 

[turnip666]

Great first post Heisenberg! Some real substance

 

[VAG newbie]

Spent about an hour on the phone yesterday calling on behalf of my boss (let's call her Skyler).

Skyler stood to lose (what I calculated) $160k worth of points value.

Call Centre Operator (let’s call him Jessie) tried to argue the 'goods & services point’ at which time I respectfully disagreed and then began to recite the T&Cs (putting emphasis in bold):

"If we change the rate at which all Points in the program are generally earned or converted we will give you 90 days written notice of that change"

Jessie to offered 5000 points. I scoffed and ask if he could see Skyler's points balance (in excess of 18 million points).

Jessie kept putting me on hold and referring to a supervisor.

Seemed like Jessie (with direction from his supervisor) was putting pressure on me to formally request that we transfer all 16 million points across at the old transfer rates (1.5:1). I knew Skyler wouldn't want her points stored at some crummy airline lock up storage, having to constantly check and spray for insects. Never knowing if they were just going to expire at any time.

I stopped him and said "obviously you are speaking to a supervisor, let me list exactly what Skyler would like for this issue to be resolved and for Skyler not to be disadvantaged by this change of transfer rates, then you can present it to your supervisor"

So I gave Skyler's demands...

- compensation of 6.4 million Citi Points
- plus about 200k of future lost points due to lack of 90 day notice

Jessie noted it all down and said it would take 3-5 business days to get a result. I have to say, he was very polite throughout and I was too. He said 'Yo' a little too often for my liking. No case number, only record of this is his name and his extension which apparently will link to all the file notes. I did press him several times for more, something like a case number or call log, he couldn't give anything. Don't know if I was duped here? Jessie knows the business side of this far more than I. I'm just the cook who accrues the points.

------------

So that is where it is at. Let’s see what they come back with. It did really feel like they would have processed a 16 million points transfer to Kris/Velocity at the old transfer rate.

Whoa! I think you had the best offer so far. Because if Citi really gave us the 90 days warning, all you can do is either transfer all 18M points over at old rate and let it expire, or let it sit in Citi and devalue. So I doubt if your boss will be compensated with 6.4M points.

 

[tharaka]

Thanks for the great post!

Basically what Citi are offering you is about 2m points to compensate. That's a great offer in my opinion, given you asked for 6.4M and getting one third of it. Obviously the catch is you transfer all points to Velocity now..

But it's strange why they'd do that? Because transferring now would impact their cash flow, as opposed to if they offer you 2m points to keep would only make a small adjustment in their balance sheets.

 

[anat0l]

Whoa! I think you had the best offer so far. Because if Citi really gave us the 90 days warning, all you can do is either transfer all 18M points over at old rate and let it expire, or let it sit in Citi and devalue. So I doubt if your boss will be compensated with 6.4M points.

6.6 M points represents at best around 35% compensation to account for the changes being instituted.

Any compensation granted now may not be counted against any further if the matter is generally raised to an authority (e.g. class action lawsuit, ACCC), so this could turn into quite a boon for "Skyler".

Personally I'm wondering what 18M points is doing sitting with the bank, though of course there is no compunction on "Skyler" to divest points according to any given schedule. I'm not sure I'd be stockpiling like that for a retirement fund.

 

[Jezza8888]

Hi

I would want to post his letter but the lawyer charges for these kind of services.

PM me if you want me to give you his details.

He got me a couple nights free at the Intercontinental a few months ago when they screwed me over with a booking!

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Personally I'm wondering what 18M points is doing sitting with the bank, though of course there is no compunction on "Skyler" to divest points according to any given schedule. I'm not sure I'd be stockpiling like that for a retirement fund.

Personally that is totally Skyler's business - personally the 3.3m pts I had warehoused is totally my business - it's Citi's unilateral decision to amend the conversion rate for Citi Rewards pts unannounced that should be discussed here and nothing else - as always IMHO of course.

 

[daveozsydney]

nice find Burmans!

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Well just had response call from Citi - they are sticking by their claim that they only need to give notice if their is a change to the earn rates of Rewards pts.

I then advised I will submit written complaint and if I receive a response which is not satisfactory then I will be submitting complaint to FOS and alsoi furnishing ACCC with a thorough run down of Citi's actions in this matter.

 

[yohy?!]

Ausbt article is up, Citi's statement below:

In response to questions posed by Australian Business Traveller, a Citibank spokesperson said "The 90 days’ notice is based on if we remove the program in whole or change the way points are earned in the rewards program, or in the case of Citi Prestige Qantas and Signature Qantas, the way points are converted ie $1 spend = 1 QFF Point.""Under this same general clause (Section 6), (when) the cost of individual rewards available in the program for redemption (varies)... we will notify you on the website at the time of your redemption – consistent with the below highlighted terms:"

​

" alt="" title="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; display: inline-block;">However, the bank did not reply to additional questions asked by Australian Business Traveller – including whether Citibank partners Virgin Australia and Singapore Airlines has increased the cost of purchasing each frequent flyer point, and why the bank elected to provide no notice even if permitted by its own T&Cs.

I have lodged a consumer complaint with ACCC and referenced the NAB case.

I'd recommend everyone do the same immediately as it's clear Citi are waiting to see if thing's die down and people just give up.

 

[anat0l]

Personally that is totally Skyler's business - personally the 3.3m pts I had warehoused is totally my business - it's Citi's unilateral decision to amend the conversion rate for Citi Rewards pts unannounced that should be discussed here and nothing else - as always IMHO of course.

Which is fair enough - as I referenced, not my place to tell Skyler what to do.


At least it is easier to rubbish a company of their bad faith on an issue than a government / government department (especially one which has unilateral powers)... which is kind of what I am up against personally.

 

[theblank]

Ausbt article is up, Citi's statement

That does make a bit of sense. They are saying that they would have to give 90 days notice if they changed the conversion rate to Qantas points, as these are automatically converted on the fly every month.

The velocity points are "purchased" with Citi points, exactly the same way a toaster would be purchased.

still sucks balls, but I don't think Citi is going to have to cough up legally, but they are experiencing a consumer backlash regardless. ( have noted the NAB incident from 2002, I am not convinced it's exactly the same scenario )