Rewards seats changed from QR to QF without approval and from J to Y

[I love to travel]

Two words keep coming to mind as I read more and more examples of the same underlying problems:

Systemic Failure

I would actually call it institutional failure.

 

[Danger]

I've said it another thread and I'll say it again here. People should be posting the first names of the call centre agents they speak with, both the good and the bad. We can establish our own little database of the good and the bad.

Far apart from that, it adds weight if you want to take your issue further. The second thing I do when I speak to any business call centre is ask the person to spell his or her name. I want an accurate record. It's no use complaining later saying 'Whoever it was I spoke to told me ..." You need the person's name, the date, the time and the number you called if your complaint is to have any degree of merit, in my opinion. The first thing I do? Start my voice recorder. I routinely record calls these days.

 

[jpp42]

The first thing I do? Start my voice recorder. I routinely record calls these days.

What state (or country) are you in? Do you get the consent of the call centre agent? In SA and WA in particular you can be in hot water if you don't have full consent.

And in NSW, Tas., and ACT, if you don't have consent you can't share this recording or even a "report of the conversation" with anyone, so it's not really useful except for personal reference.

 

[Danger]

What state (or country) are you in? Do you get the consent of the call centre agent? In SA and WA in particular you can be in hot water if you don't have full consent.

And in NSW, Tas., and ACT, if you don't have consent you can't share this recording or even a "report of the conversation" with anyone, so it's not really useful except for personal reference.

When was the last time you called any call centre and didn't hear an announcement saying something like 'Calls are recorded for quality and training'? In other words, the business knows the call is being recorded. I don't have to tell them what they've already told me.

 

[There'sOnlyOneJimmy]

What state (or country) are you in? Do you get the consent of the call centre agent? In SA and WA in particular you can be in hot water if you don't have full consent.

And in NSW, Tas., and ACT, if you don't have consent you can't share this recording or even a "report of the conversation" with anyone, so it's not really useful except for personal reference.

Genuine question…
If when you call them and they say that they are going to record the call, would that not be implied consent?
If they think it’s ok to make their own recording, what grounds would they have to deny consent to you making your own *exactly the same* recording?

 

[jpp42]

When was the last time you called any call centre and didn't hear an announcement saying something like 'Calls are recorded for quality and training'? In other words, the business knows the call is being recorded. I don't have to tell them what they've already told me.

Um, that's about the business making the recording, not you. The laws about recording apply to the party who is taking action to make the recording. What the other party is doing is not related.

Post automatically merged: May 25, 2022

If they think it’s ok to make their own recording, what grounds would they have to deny consent to you making your own *exactly the same* recording?

They have a right to know that the other party is initiating a recording too. Implied consent would only be if you announce that you're making the recording and they continue with the call.

 

[Danger]

Um, that's about the business making the recording, not you. The laws about recording apply to the party who is taking action to make the recording. What the other party is doing is not related.

Post automatically merged: May 25, 2022

They have a right to know that the other party is initiating a recording too. Implied consent would only be if you announce that you're making the recording and they continue with the call.

What "laws"? Laws vary enormously by jurisdiction. At the very least, at a bare minimum, the legislation differs. I'm happy to disagree on whether it's right or night but to say, "They have a right to know that the other party is initiating a recording too" as a blanket statement is demonstrably false.

 

[dajop]

Irrespective of the semantics of the law, what are the chances of prosecution of an person (consumer) who calls an organisation (not another specific individual), listens to an announcement that "this call will be recorded for training and QA purposes", and proceeds to make their own recording?

 

[jpp42]

What "laws"? Laws vary enormously by jurisdiction. At the very least, at a bare minimum, the legislation differs. I'm happy to disagree on whether it's right or night but to say, "They have a right to know that the other party is initiating a recording too" as a blanket statement is demonstrably false.

Yes, it's a broad statement, I didn't think this was the right place to go into all the technical detail. I am presuming the call is made from within Australia as indicated by my original comment about the state-by-state circumstances. In particular this can be a problem in Western Australia and South Australia where the laws are strict on recordings without "all party consent."

For those interested in this topic the web site A Growing Repository of Local Laws - Recording Law is useful.

Unless you have extensively researched this or received specific advice, I believe it is wise to simply state something after the agent answers like, "Hi this is John and I'm also recording this call, can you help me with ...." If they continue with the call this should be implied consent. (I am not a lawyer and this advice is worth what you paid for it.)

Irrespective of the semantics of the law, what are the chances of prosecution of an person (consumer) who calls an organisation (not another specific individual), listens to an announcement that "this call will be recorded for training and QA purposes", and proceeds to make their own recording?

Prosecution is not likely but the issue is more about whether you can use this as evidence in a legal proceeding, if it comes to that. If the call is not made in accordance with the law, it's not valid evidence in court.

 

[dajop]

I've said it another thread and I'll say it again here. People should be posting the first names of the call centre agents they speak with, both the good and the bad. We can establish our own little database of the good and the bad.

I don't think that's appropriate on a public forum. Especially given that the problem seems to be systemic and institutional (to combine the comments of two previous posters) and not just a problem with specific individuals. Completely unfair on an individual who as been provided inadequate training, inadequate authority and inadequate systems to do their job, and presumably at the same time incentivized to get through calls as quickly as they can.

 

[RichardMEL]

This thread is not about schedule changes initiated by partner airlines. This is about people who call the QF Call Centre to ask about potential changes to their itinerary and find that an agent error causes them to lose what they once had and never wanted changed. It happened to me three days ago but fortunately I was able to find a replacement that was acceptable to me that another (better) agent was able to book.

Yes, you're correct that the thread is about QF poor (worse than poor) handling of bookings by badly trained or equipped agents. Totally agree with that.

My general comment was mostly in response to a few posts within this thread that were not directly related to this issue, and were related to problems caused by partner cancels or changed - and indeed a number of other threads along the same line. That's why I wrote it was a general comment, and not directly related to the thread topic.

The real issue is the terrible handling it seems mostly offshore agents have (not all, but clearly some) with what they're given to work with causing so many terrible problems for customers that need never have happened of course. And that it appears to be happening so much it really is a systemic failure of training/resourcing that causes this. I definitely agree.

 

[aidan059]

And just like that - despite only 1 seat being left in Business (per EF) Qatar has reinstated my seat which was lost by Qantas. Maybe it was the 3 emails to Stephanie Tully or the 10 calls to QFF in 5 days. Either way it's there. However I will only be relieved once I actually finally get a e-ticket, lets hope they ticket it in time this time.

 

[serfty]

Is one clear thing to come out of al or this, if you want to change your booking, DO NOT reference your original booking when calling up to examine alternative routes/dates but instead check independently as if you were asking about a new booking. Then you don’t risk losing your original booking if the flights are not available. If the flights are available then the risk is diminished although some risk still there, particularly if on QR.

To be honest, I have been doing this for years.

If a suitable predictable outcome is available via automated systems - then I have generally gone that way rather than involving the finigal factor of human intervention.

Unfortunately with this increased chance of booking destruction by calling Qantas, a couple of times this year when faced with cancellations I have gone with less preferred but ultimately viable solutions that don't involve actually calling.

 

[Traveller11]

Its time for me to ditch Qantas. Like the above every single time I rang qantas I felt like they were doing me a favor! How dare I annoy them. Flights cancelled no options given.

 

[Seat0B]

And just like that - despite only 1 seat being left in Business (per EF) Qatar has reinstated my seat which was lost by Qantas. Maybe it was the 3 emails to Stephanie Tully or the 10 calls to QFF in 5 days. Either way it's there. However I will only be relieved once I actually finally get a e-ticket, lets hope they ticket it in time this time.

well done you!

 

[Pushka]

‘This call is being recorded. .’ Doesn’t state by who.

 

[Bolt]

I've said it another thread and I'll say it again here. People should be posting the first names of the call centre agents they speak with, both the good and the bad. We can establish our own little database of the good and the bad.

I spoke to Mandy from SAF. Mandy was soooo good, but then she transferred me to Candy. Candy was oh so baaaaddd.

Not sure if they were their real names though. They may just be stage names.

 

[There'sOnlyOneJimmy]

I spoke to Mandy from SAF. Mandy was soooo good, but then she transferred me to Candy. Candy was oh so baaaaddd.

Not sure if they were their real names though. They may just be stage names.

And sometimes I get Randy…

 

[andye]

And sometimes I get Randy…

Oh Sandy, I'm in misery
(With apologies to John Travolta)

 

[dajop]

Oh Sandy, I'm in misery
(With apologies to John Travolta)

All this rhyming. You're all getting it wrong. Last time I called up Qantas, I spoke to someone going by the name of Karen .....