Rewards seats changed from QR to QF without approval and from J to Y

[Guvner]

Um, that's about the business making the recording, not you. The laws about recording apply to the party who is taking action to make the recording. What the other party is doing is not related.

Post automatically merged: May 25, 2022

They have a right to know that the other party is initiating a recording too. Implied consent would only be if you announce that you're making the recording and they continue with the call.

Record it and then simply make detailed notes or a transcript from the voice recording. The recording may not be useable (debatable), but your detailed diary notes of who said what should be.

 

[Anna]

There may or may not be a problem under state laws with recording a telephone conversation depending what equipment is used and what is done with the recording. However Commonwealth law will also come into it, because under placitum 51(v) of the Constitution, telephone services fall under Commonwealth power not under state power. The Telecommunications (Interception and Access) Act 1979 (Cth) is likely to be relevant.

 

[RichardMEL]

Here's a question for a legal mind about phone convos and recordings.

If you phone a call centre, and they say the call is being recorded (blah blah blah) does that then imply consent for the caller to record also? After all they usually say "If you don't want to be recorded then tell the agent..." which then suggests to me that is consent on your part to be recorded, but it's also consent on the part of the agent to also be recorded (by them) so thus is it then implied one could record from the caller side?

(not something I worry about myself but just wondering given the recent thread discussions).

related - there was a story recently on FT about someone on an AA (I think) plane during boarding talking loudly about a deal they'd done with big company for such and such and how much they would make of it by basically screwing them over. It so happens, per the story, sitting in front of this person was a senior employee of said company involved who then recorded this other person';s conversation and sent that back to the company in question to get something done. Obviously the whole consent thing came up (to me someone talking loudly on a plane is more or less a public place - if you're being overhead by pax around you then you're not TRYING to keep it privately and could be recorded). Very different thing of course (and a fun story reminding people about having business conversations in lounges/planes is perhaps not the brightest idea)

 

[Mr H]

Here's a question for a legal mind about phone convos and recordings.

If you phone a call centre, and they say the call is being recorded (blah blah blah) does that then imply consent for the caller to record also?

I am not a lawyer. But the QF bit about calls being recorded says that they are recorded for training, security and quality assurance purposes. I would presume that this means the recording consent is reciprocal only for those purposes. If you wanted to use the recording for, say, support in a legal case you would need to extend the agreed purposes of the call and accept that QF could use the recording for similar purposes.

 

[Seat0B]

I am not a lawyer. But the QF bit about calls being recorded says that they are recorded for training, security and quality assurance purposes. I would presume that this means the recording consent is reciprocal only for those purposes. If you wanted to use the recording for, say, support in a legal case you would need to extend the agreed purposes of the call and accept that QF could use the recording for similar purposes.

would that not be quality assurance - you know that the agent gave accurate, correct, complete advice? I know, dream on....

 

[Franky]

Here's a question for a legal mind about phone convos and recordings.

If you phone a call centre, and they say the call is being recorded (blah blah blah) does that then imply consent for the caller to record also? After all they usually say "If you don't want to be recorded then tell the agent..." which then suggests to me that is consent on your part to be recorded, but it's also consent on the part of the agent to also be recorded (by them) so thus is it then implied one could record from the caller side?

(not something I worry about myself but just wondering given the recent thread discussions).

related - there was a story recently on FT about someone on an AA (I think) plane during boarding talking loudly about a deal they'd done with big company for such and such and how much they would make of it by basically screwing them over. It so happens, per the story, sitting in front of this person was a senior employee of said company involved who then recorded this other person';s conversation and sent that back to the company in question to get something done. Obviously the whole consent thing came up (to me someone talking loudly on a plane is more or less a public place - if you're being overhead by pax around you then you're not TRYING to keep it privately and could be recorded). Very different thing of course (and a fun story reminding people about having business conversations in lounges/planes is perhaps not the brightest idea)

I've also heard that story, 3-4 years ago...

 

[jpp42]

I've also heard that story, 3-4 years ago...

Possibly you're recalling this thread on FT: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/uni...ionary-tale-you-never-know-who-listening.html

 

[Pushka]

I am not a lawyer. But the QF bit about calls being recorded says that they are recorded for training, security and quality assurance purposes. I would presume that this means the recording consent is reciprocal only for those purposes. If you wanted to use the recording for, say, support in a legal case you would need to extend the agreed purposes of the call and accept that QF could use the recording for similar purposes.

Quality Assurance purposes would be my justification for recording. Because that is exactly the issue here.

Post automatically merged: May 26, 2022

would that not be quality assurance - you know that the agent gave accurate, correct, complete advice? I know, dream on....

Ah. We agree. Again.

 

[kookaburra75]

I am not a lawyer. But the QF bit about calls being recorded says that they are recorded for training, security and quality assurance purposes. I would presume that this means the recording consent is reciprocal only for those purposes. If you wanted to use the recording for, say, support in a legal case you would need to extend the agreed purposes of the call and accept that QF could use the recording for similar purposes.

It's one of those things that you can't imply conditions, especially where it involves privacy - it has to be express permission. That's why they go through the speil about what they are collecting, for why, and give you the option of opting out. But, you can do like I do, and state when the person answers the phone, their words about why I am recording the call. I haven't had an issue, but I suspect it's because they've never heard that being said to them.

It's a gray area. You can record a call if you are one of the parties, for the purposes of ensuring the preparation of an accurate transcript of the call, but can't let anyone listen to the recording, and delete it once you have prepared the transcript.

 

[Danger]

I don't think that's appropriate on a public forum. Especially given that the problem seems to be systemic and institutional (to combine the comments of two previous posters) and not just a problem with specific individuals. Completely unfair on an individual who as been provided inadequate training, inadequate authority and inadequate systems to do their job, and presumably at the same time incentivized to get through calls as quickly as they can.

I don't disagree that it's systemic and I'm all for protecting an individual's privacy. However, by noting only the person's first name, the chance of the exact individual's full identity being known to anyone outside of Qantas and Mindpearl is very remote.

 

[MrJetset]

This thread is getting way off topic...

I decided to extend a domestic layover connecting to EK F because of QF's reduced schedule. Because of the many experiences, each time an agent in Mindperal answered this AM I HUACA until I got a HBA agent (again because of their systems and training only).

Got a wonderful HBA agent who knew of the Mindpearl issues. I made the changes, still a little concerned, but she emailed the new tickets immediately and I finally breathed a sigh of relief.

Sadly, I think ensuring you are speaking to a local agent this is the only solution until this issue is fixed.

 

[coralda]

I read the thread on Monday prompted by the AFF weekly email. I have business class rewards booked with qantas via Cathay pacific SYD-MAN via Hong Kong . Cathay had changed the flights recently and qantas had not reticketed. I rang them Monday night asking them to reticket the new flights so I had correct itinerary and etickets. Lady put me on hold eventually came back and said you will receive email in 24 hours with tickets reissued etc. yesterday afternoon the booking has completely disappeared- got Cathay pacific on whatsapp they said speak to qantas. Just on phone with qantas who are denying any knowledge or responsibility and now they have just cut me off whilst on hold. I can see this is going to be exactly as all the examples above. Their incompetence is beyond belief and there appears to be no recourse.

Hi Jeff,
Sorry to hear that. Have just been through almost identical problem except ex-MEL. Just given up, accepted refund and booked a commercial fare in Y as my family are on same flights on separate booking and I want to be on same CX flight. New booking cost approx. $600 more then it would have if booked way back. Not received refunds yet and will be pursuing Qantas as they stuffed up (and admitted it) and I suffered consequential loss.
Hope you get something sorted and (eventually) enjoy your trip.

 

[Jeffstrongman]

Hi Coralda. I thought it was sorted as spoke to a guy at Qantas he explained the Qantas lady had tried to automatically issue the tickets and they had come back rejected and as she didn’t intervene Cathay cancelled the booking based on timing out. He booked 2 revenue seats with Cathay and emailed them to convert to business class awards. He is the most proactive agent I have spoken to. Only problem. The booking reappeared on Cathay for 21 June and not 21 July !!!! Contacted Cathay who tried the contact Qantas trick. Eventually they changed the booking to correct July dates. With a massive caveat. I ask you to contact Qantas to get them to re issue the tickets or the booking will elapse. So it is back to square one

 

[coralda]

Hi Coralda. I thought it was sorted as spoke to a guy at Qantas he explained the Qantas lady had tried to automatically issue the tickets and they had come back rejected and as she didn’t intervene Cathay cancelled the booking based on timing out. He booked 2 revenue seats with Cathay and emailed them to convert to business class awards. He is the most proactive agent I have spoken to. Only problem. The booking reappeared on Cathay for 21 June and not 21 July !!!! Contacted Cathay who tried the contact Qantas trick. Eventually they changed the booking to correct July dates. With a massive caveat. I ask you to contact Qantas to get them to re issue the tickets or the booking will elapse. So it is back to square one

Fingers crossed!

 

[Matt_01]

I am not a lawyer. But the QF bit about calls being recorded says that they are recorded for training, security and quality assurance purposes.

would that not be quality assurance - you know that the agent gave accurate, correct, complete advice? I know, dream on....

The call recording on the QF can work in you favour. Back in 2016 I had booked ADL-DOH-BOS with QR for Mrs&MissM in J (139K each under the old rates) QR changed the schedule and they were re routed via SYD and onto the a380. At that time I knew MrsM would not like the seating arrangements on the QR a380 and called QF and enquired about F availability. The seats were available, the agent quoted the difference in fees and taxes 13K points and around AUD23 and I asked if the call was being recorded. I will not go into all the details 24hrs later no ticket, called and asked to wait another 24hrs, which I did and called back again. I was then was informed by QF more points and taxes were required which I refused to agree to and ran the gauntlet and asked them to go back to the recordings. After a few more days was call by QF and was informed the agent had made a mistake and QF would fix this. The agent I had spoken with had repriced the trip SYD-DOH in F and forgotten to add in DOH-BOS, sometimes you just get lucky and would suggest that P1 status came into play.

 

[Jeffstrongman]

Fingers crossed!

Rang Qantas today to again ask them to reissue the tickets for the new Cathay itinerary. Started to give me the usual script of ticketing dept have to do this or that. I explained they had already caused the booking to be cancelled due to their incompetence. I explained I wasn’t leaving the phone call until I had written confirmation of the new tickets ~ Her attempt to tell me this would take 24 hours was rebuffed with my response that this would be a very long phone call! then the dreaded ‘let me put you on hold‘ comment , I insisted she called me back if call was disconnected. after 15 minutes she came back to say the ticketing department were investigating ~ I asked her what they needed to investigate as they had the full details and had yet to reissue, the response was they have to check everything because it is an award booking, she then proceeded to put me on hold and promptly cut me off. The training officer who has taught them this technique must be in line for a promotion as they have a near 100% record. No phone call back at that stage, but 1 hour later I had an email with my new itinerary and etickets, then a courtesy phone call 30 minutes later. Now I just need July 21st to arrive without Cathay cancelling any more flights.

 

[MrJetset]

I doubt the call dropping out is a ‘technique.’

There is no evidence that these agents or their company are vindictive.

What is evident is that all of their processes and systems are failing, including their call connections.

 

[Mr H]

I doubt the call dropping out is a ‘technique.’

There is no evidence that these agents or their company are vindictive.

Agree. And in @Jeffstrongman's post the agent organised the flights, emailed the ticket and followed up with a phone call. All this despite being told about their organisation's incompetence.

 

[aidan059]

8 days out from when I'm due to fly and I still do not have a ticket. The flight which I thought reinstated was apparently "reinstated incorrectly" resulting in my flight saying now "Not Confirmed/On Request". It has been sitting like this for around 2 weeks, and not a single agent has resolved it. I have called over 6 times, and received calls from AKL/SA customer service agents to be told they will follow up and call me within 48 hours.

I have never received a call back from any of these agents including the Auckland based ones, and everytime I call Qantas back, the same process seems to occur.

1. Talks to their supervisor/support team to check what to do
2. Sends email to oneworld help desk to reinstate flight/check status
3. Informs me that they will "call me back" within 24-48 hours to update me "considering that I am flying very soon"
4. I do not receive any call back within 48-72 hours and I have to call Qantas again for the same process to just happen again.

It is absolutely insane how bad and how incompetent this whole organisation is. I am very close to having to pay thousands of dollars of paid flights and rejig a full itinerary which was ticketed and confirmed months and months ago. No one seems to care enough to take responsibility for my experience, nor do any of the agents care about my case enough to call me back. The fact that no one knows what's going on and have not given an alternative solution (such as a QF flight) is ridiculous. Even if I proposed an alternative the agents I've talked to said they can't release any QF flight and also would charge me a fee ?!?!?!

 

[Fil-Ski]

I have the same issue. I'm due to fly out on Tuesday
Apparently they are working on it and the agents can't make any changes
They never call back
I've brought another award ticket as a backup
Utterly useless