Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Bahrain and UAE cut diplomatic ties with Qatar.

[burmans]

According to 'hard' news sites such as BBC, the Saudis and Egypt are the only ones to close their airspace to QR over-flights. If you have a look at the following map, this isn't a huge inconvenience, except for flights directly west bound to north Africa (and QR do fly to Tunisia and Morocco) and maybe southern Europe, such as Spain and Portugal. Syria and Iraq are already no-fly, so QR uses the corridor over Iran and then into Turkey, as do other Gulf carriers heading for Europe.
View attachment 98849

View attachment 98851

Thanks, useful info amongst some of the hyperbole and guessing going on (not referring to here but some other sites).

 

[smithcorp]

Mighty confusing. Flight Radar shows Doha-London flight just now crossed to Iran airspace and is headed north via Iran. However, it appears at 0600 GST today Bahrain is ceasing flights to and from Qatar. No workd on whether the airspace will be closed to them as well. I suppose of that happens, Qatar will effectively be blockaded.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Even if the majority of flights can continue as planned, albeit with longer flight times... with the blockade, where does QR get its food and catering? Already a run on supermarkets, food trucks stopped at the border.

 

[hossein_au]

That escalated quickly. Is there a politics for dummies explanation on why this happened almost overnight? Any truth to Qatar having terrorist ties? Suddenly Saudi Arabia, after Trumps love feast, is the middle east police on this.

Basically, Saudis are pissed off Qatar does not 100% support them in isolating Iran, funding ISIS in Iraq and Syria, and bombarding Yemeni civilians. They are home to the most fundamentalist interpretation of Islam and have been directly linked to funding ISIS (not that Qatar is much better). This is basically the story of pot and kettle...

 

[Himeno]

Looks like the ATC bans kicked in overnight.
When I looked last night, there were still QR aircraft flying through Saudi, UAE and Bahrain airspace, now...

 

[hossein_au]

Re: Qatar Air

I respect your comment Rooflyer but if my ticket money is helping to fund terrorism then I will fly with someone else, even if QR offers a return to Europe for $500. See my reply to Burmans as well. I recognise that SA is not the best role model.

Flying any of the ME3 is, at least indirectly, helping 'their' cause. If nothing else, at least by us getting comfortable with transiting or holidaying in those countries.

 

[dajop]

Re: Qatar Air

I respect your comment Rooflyer but if my ticket money is helping to fund terrorism then I will fly with someone else, even if QR offers a return to Europe for $500.

If you believe what DL, AA & UA have been saying for a while now, QR is a loss making entity, and the Qatari government money is subsidising the airline. If they are right, the more routes QR have and the more people fly them the more government money it takes to subsidise them, and therefore the less money available to to fund terrorism. (OK, OK, I know it's not that simple)

 

[jenib]

According to 'hard' news sites such as BBC, the Saudis and Egypt are the only ones to close their airspace to QR over-flights. If you have a look at the following map, this isn't a huge inconvenience, except for flights directly west bound to north Africa (and QR do fly to Tunisia and Morocco) and maybe southern Europe, such as Spain and Portugal. Syria and Iraq are already no-fly, so QR uses the corridor over Iran and then into Turkey, as do other Gulf carriers heading for Europe.

Thanks for the info rooflyer (I'm flying QR Aus to Europe later in June)

From this article, it appears that Bahrain and UAE cannot legally shut off airspace to QR, but they can refuse landing rights. Saudi can shut off airspace as well https://www.businessinsider.com.au/qatar-airways-banned-from-crucial-airspace-2017-6?r=US&IR=T

 

[defurax]

Even if the majority of flights can continue as planned, albeit with longer flight times... with the blockade, where does QR get its food and catering? Already a run on supermarkets, food trucks stopped at the border.

Iran has said it was ready to export food to Qatar by sea as of today, so that covers the food...but not the champagne!!!

 

[drron]

Thanks for the info rooflyer (I'm flying QR Aus to Europe later in June)

From this article, it appears that Bahrain and UAE cannot legally shut off airspace to QR, but they can refuse landing rights. Saudi can shut off airspace as well https://www.businessinsider.com.au/qatar-airways-banned-from-crucial-airspace-2017-6?r=US&IR=T

That is in the CAPA article I linked to upthread.However there is no way of policing that agreement so almost certainly no repercussions if they do.

The Transit Agreement (of 30-Jan-1945) is separate from the Chicago Convention (07-Dec-1944), which merely confirmed the exclusive sovereignty of all states in the airspace above their territory. It therefore became desirable to have a multilateral agreement to allow overflights (and landing for technical reasons, the "first" and "second" freedoms). Not all states that have ratified the Chicago Convention have adhered to the Transit Agreement, but most have.Three of the four countries banning Qatari flights from landing are party to the Transit Agreement: Bahrain (12-Oct-1971), Egypt (13-Mar-1947) and the UAE (25-Apr-1972).

So Egypt which has signed the Transit Agreement has closed it's airspace to Qatar in violation of the agreement.So no reason to think Bahrain wont.

 

[hossein_au]

Iran has said it was ready to export food to Qatar by sea as of today, so that covers the food...but not the champagne!!!

Not even 'Shiraz'?

(For those who might not know, Shiraz originated in Iran--it is actually name of the city the wine comes from)

 

[jenib]

That is in the CAPA article I linked to upthread.However there is no way of policing that agreement so almost certainly no repercussions if they do.

So Egypt which has signed the Transit Agreement has closed it's airspace to Qatar in violation of the agreement.So no reason to think Bahrain wont.

True- at least they have apparently (for now) instructed pilots as follows:

[FONT=&quot]"According to [/FONT]Flightradar24[FONT=&quot], Bahrain sent notified pilots that it will limit flights to and from Qatar by Qatari aircraft through its airspace to a single air route. This means, even if Qatar Airways isn’t grounded, it will be subject to heavy air traffic congestion." (from the article)[/FONT][FONT=&quot]


[/FONT]

 

[RooFlyer]

Re: Qatar Air

I respect your comment Rooflyer but if my ticket money is helping to fund terrorism then I will fly with someone else, even if QR offers a return to Europe for $500. See my reply to Burmans as well. I recognise that SA is not the best role model.

Fair enough attitude. However remember that Al Jezera news is owned by the Qatari government, and the ABC buys access to Al Jezera and broadcasts it's stuff. Your taxes going the same way!!

 

[burmans]

Re: Qatar Air

If you believe what DL, AA & UA have been saying for a while now, QR is a loss making entity, and the Qatari government money is subsidising the airline. If they are right, the more routes QR have and the more people fly them the more government money it takes to subsidise them, and therefore the less money available to to fund terrorism. (OK, OK, I know it's not that simple)

Like the logic!

 

[burmans]

Not even 'Shiraz'?

(For those who might not know, Shiraz originated in Iran--it is actually name of the city the wine comes from)

As per a recent post though, it's fairly hard to find Shiraz in Shiraz (wine that is, not the carpets).

 

[ermen]

That escalated quickly. Is there a politics for dummies explanation on why this happened almost overnight? Any truth to Qatar having terrorist ties? Suddenly Saudi Arabia, after Trumps love feast, is the middle east police on this.

Have a read of these 2 articles

One article says that the final straw that broke the camel's back per the FT was Qatar paying US$1bn to (Iran?) to secure the release of some members of the royal family kidnapped in Iraq

The Shocking Trigger Behind Today's Gulf Scandal: Qatar Paid Al-Qaeda, Iran $1BN In Hostage Deal | Zero Hedge

The other deals with the dominance of Qatari gas

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...-with-qatar-has-22-year-history-rooted-in-gas

 

[Saab34]

Have a look at FR24. Outbound QR Flights all seem to be heading on the same track over Iran, EK/EY both head up the Persian gulf. Not sure if this is normal?

Quite interesting to watch play out.

 

[RooFlyer]

Have a look at FR24. Outbound QR Flights all seem to be heading on the same track over Iran, EK/EY both head up the Persian gulf. Not sure if this is normal?

Quite interesting to watch play out.

Quite a normal track for many airlines to go over Iran to avoid Iraq and Syria - see post #36.

 

[Himeno]

Have a look at FR24. Outbound QR Flights all seem to be heading on the same track over Iran, EK/EY both head up the Persian gulf. Not sure if this is normal?

Quite interesting to watch play out.

Not normal. That came in at 0300 local (midnight UTC) this morning. Before that, QR flights were flying through Saudi and UAE airspace as needed.

 

[RooFlyer]

Sorry Himeno; its not unusual, let us say. I took the Iran/Turkey track to Europe on QR last year. The western flights of QR over Saudi went to north Africa; those to Europe go via Iran and Turkish airspace. The image in post #36 was before the Saudi airspace ban came in.