Surprise! You've turned Gold!

Status
Not open for further replies.
I also like this blog:

Darryl King’s blog ireckon Blog Archive All that glitters is not gold!

a refreshing take on the issue:

The fact so many of the crowd spankers have actually flown regularly is because of what Virgin Blue has done for Australian flying. It used to cost 3-4 times as much before and it was not that long ago!

Add some balance to your thinking and demands. Do you really want to force a business when they make such a mistake that you would be happy to force them to honour something that may well cripple a business? Add some perspective. This is not a corporation that has exposed their staff and customer to asbestos and are denying compensation. It is an upgrade people!
 
But even from your explanation of why you think you may have been eligible to be upgraded, I still don't think it implies "You came so close to making it on your own" - Gold is a ~$9000 revenue proposition.

Each to their own... like I said, if you feel aggrieved by it, and you deserve it then complain to Virgin/Velocity.

I spend more than $9k.

But why bother cussing? I'm on UA and Air NZ because of

price,
schedules.,
routing,
being made to fly 'via Sydney" because of the culled Mel-LA flights.

Gold might've changed that even though I don't need lounges: I've got a perfectly good club with showers, tennis courts, pooll, bar, restaurant and a complimentary limo service to the airport.
 
I think people are taking this a little too seriously.

I've read on other forums of people talking legal action etc.

How stupid! Paid and Suffering caused by 'getting your hopes up':confused:
 
Well - I am close to Gold and up for renewal, and I got the offer and the retraction.... Why am I not eligible, yet others are? Where do they draw the line as to who comes "close enough"??
What makes you think ours have even got this offer. I didn't get the offer but I got the retraction, and I've flew once with them 12 months ok. It is pretty clear that they stuffed up and everyone has had a retraction. So no reason to think that you've missed out on anything.
 
So no reason to think that you've missed out on anything.

...well if I am short of gold by 50 status credits, and I don't get a "comp" gold upgrade, then yes I will have missed out. Obviously a piece of work has gone on at DJ to implement a courtesy system for those who fall short - and this is now known amongst their customers.

What I was getting at is that they will have issues in future with regards to customers expectations - myself included - and I don't think that this is unreasonable.
 
My 2c - The fact that they made a mistake and sent out an email to half the population, big deal, that I can accept, I don't fly DJ much, as a QF SG i'd rather fly QF (note im talking DJ not VA), but the fact they responded with such a flippant tone is what I find frustrating.

They just made one of the biggest stuff ups in client relations history and the lack of respect their follow up email and their website note pervays just blows my mind, I look forward to hearing CrazyDave's perspective on it, but for me, they really dropped the ball not when they sent the first email, but with the lack of thought they put until the second.

TG
 
...well if I am short of gold by 50 status credits, and I don't get a "comp" gold upgrade, then yes I will have missed out. Obviously a piece of work has gone on at DJ to implement a courtesy system for those who fall short - and this is now known amongst their customers.

What I was getting at is that they will have issues in future with regards to customers expectations - myself included - and I don't think that this is unreasonable.
Firstly, it is not obvious that a piece of work has gone on to implement a courtesy system to me. A fundamental point of that work would be to target it and clearly they haven't targetted this occurence in any way at all.

Second, I have already read a few things on here that would suggest to me that virgin have a courtesy system for the customers they value.

Ignoring those points, IMO your post arrives at an unreasonable conclusion. There are plenty of stories on here regarding qantas "comping" status extensions. These are also well known amongst qantas customers. But that doesn't lead to any expectations by customers in regard to getting "comped".

It might lead to a hope for something but not an expectation. IMO it is unreasonable to expect to get special treatment that is outside the T&C. If they were going to give the special treatment to all program members then there would have just done the prgram that way in the first place. But they didn't.
 
I think people are taking this a little too seriously.

I've read on other forums of people talking legal action etc.

How stupid! Paid and Suffering caused by 'getting your hopes up':confused:

Well, surely if a few people took legal action it'd turn into a class action, and then you'd be represented by default. So who knows, you might get something out of it from their efforts. Chances are not though :p
 
I think I understand most of what has gone on here - being in IT myself I have a firm grasp of how it can turn one simple mistake into a nightmare. What I can't come to grips with is the deafening whining in this thread. Could you all please stop going on about how you were going to do all this flying on Virgin Blue but now you're not, or how you should be compensated for a mistake that has caused you no financial loss or even inconvenience, or how the retraction wasn't worded to your liking and didn't show you enough respeck!

What a load of bollocks!
 
I think I understand most of what has gone on here - being in IT myself I have a firm grasp of how it can turn one simple mistake into a nightmare. What I can't come to grips with is the deafening whining in this thread. Could you all please stop going on about how you were going to do all this flying on Virgin Blue but now you're not, or how you should be compensated for a mistake that has caused you no financial loss or even inconvenience, or how the retraction wasn't worded to your liking and didn't show you enough respeck!

What a load of bollocks!


Don't you mean respect? :mrgreen::mrgreen:

And no, I don't think discussing how bad their follow up was is a load of bollocks, if you don't like it, go and read another thread!

TG
 
Well, the story surrounding Virgin Blue's stuff-up is starting to gain some real traction in marketing & communications circles and mainstream media. All in all, they agree that DJ really screwed the pooch over the entire incident.

Virgin Blue’s gold class Velocity email blunder - mUmBRELLA

It’s the kind of database blunder that must give marketing directors nightmares.
AMAZING Virgin Blue email marketing error: congrats – you're Gold. No you're not. - Dan Warne

My strong dislike of Virgin Blue just ratcheted up a notch to "will avoid flying with them at any cost". I received an email from Virgin Blue last night congratulating me on achieving Velocity Gold frequent flyer membership, only to receive another one an hour later saying "you do not qualify for this upgrade. Please disregard"
Virgin Blue "error" upgrades passengers to gold status - CRN

Airline Virgin Blue has blamed an IT system error for accidentally upgrading ineligible members of its Velocity rewards program to “gold” status.
All that glitters is not gold! - Darryl King

Last night a person (yes a real human) made several mistakes. They made an error and then the attempts to manage it weren’t so great and things didn’t exactly resolve themselves as they could have.
 
Good .. I want a free pass.

cost to them zilcho basically.
 
Read our AFF credit card guides and start earning more points now.

AFF Supporters can remove this and all advertisements

Like TG I found the complete lack of courtesy and explanation in their response rather disappointing. The fact that the very same retraction was sent to their frequent travelers, ie those who actually send a large proportion of their custom to DJ like haydensydney and others makes it all the more perplexing. I had anticipated it to be an error as soon as I realised that everyone else got the same initial email, so the retraction wasn't that big a deal - just the way it was done. Whilst i am not going to make a big fuss out of it as i have not suffered any loss or anything, this nonetheless makes a great case study in spectacular PR blunders and resulting implications.
 
Last edited:
Good .. I want a free pass.

cost to them zilcho basically.
Why? What loss did you suffer? Should they give out 2 million passes, or only one to you?
I wouldn't have thought that ozstamps was being serious in his comment, but it does give rise to how DJ can make good with their customers after a blunder like this. Particularly important is the legal issue arising where customers who'd specifically requested not to receive these kind of comms from them got it anyway (Spam Act 2003).

IMHO, if I had a senior position within their marketing structure and was in the thick of this, I'd be asking how I can make good with my customers after getting their hopes up - something which they don't seem to have done from at least what we have seen/know/heard/read so far.

If the mathematics stack up, what's the harm of handing out a bucketload of Lounge passes?

I wouldn't have the first clue as to exactly what the cost breakdown of a DJ lounge single entry pass would be, but I'd expect the amount to be apportioned between various functions including;

  • leasing and operational costs (water, power, gas),
  • staffing, cleaning and resources,
  • payback on initial acquisition and establishment of site,
  • inventory (printed materials, cleaning and bathroom supplies),
  • subscription services (magazines, pay TV, performing rights licenses)
  • catering (food service supplies, COGS)
  • a portion towards planned maintenance and renewal of the asset, and
  • the balance of course towards airline profit.
The cost structure and splits between these areas would likely be averaged on a location basis. So for the purpose of this scenario, they should be able to show that on average across the network that ~25/pax/visit is the real cost of using the lounge (they would have had to build the models when deciding costs for the annual membership, factored against increase load factors for the airline by members and average use). That would still give them ~10 in pure profit from each paid visit.

The data available should also be able to show how lounge usage/membership affects travel patterns, and delivers increased load factors for the carrier.

With those who don't fly frequently, it provides them an a reward and incentive to do so (increased load factors, on-board ancillary revenue). Common sense would suggest that not everyone on the lower tiers would use the pass within the validity period (which they'd be smart to shorten for these passes in such an instance), so their financial exposure is reduced.

Most of the people in the lower tiers I would expect more often than not fly with someone else, and of course they're not going to want to be left in the terminal - so there's some additional single entry passes purchased at at $35 a pop.

For silver members, they can call it a little Christmas present for their continued loyalty, and again that demographic is more likely than lower tiers to deliver load factor and ancillary revenue.

One other thing dolling out free passes does, is it provides those who've previously not experienced a paid ancillary product in the past the chance to do so. Done right, this could deliver a boost to annual signups for a paid product (revenue streams again) particularly from Silver members depending on their flight patterns.

It wouldn't be hard for a serious marketer, particularly at an airline like DJ with all new systems and a data warehouse that'll rival most banks to plug in some scenarios, gather data, run the numbers, and in a couple of hours and determine exactly what the cost/benefit of such an exercise might be. Do that as a Plan A, while still having the no-cost Plan B response ramped up in case the numbers didn't stack up.

From a PR/guest relations standpoint, even if they only dolled out passes to those who expressed their displeasure over the occurrence, it would stem and turn the tide of displeasure being expressed their way - which is what any good PR/media person wants to do with a bad story. By not doing something to placate their potential guests for a negligible cost, its brought out a number of influencers (Dan Warne, CRN, Mumbrella, et al) who will be expressing a negative view on the situation which only does harm to their brand image.

Here ends my dealing with bad PR + accounting + data analysis brain dump. I'll stick to flying QF though, because I already have status with them, and at least the bright, educated women I've had the pleasure of chatting to on a long flight with them have returned my calls and never stood me up for a dinner date :cool:
 
And no, I don't think discussing how bad their follow up was is a load of bollocks, if you don't like it, go and read another thread!

I think that their follow up was more around getting a retraction out fast, rather than letting it sit over the weekend. So, while we could argue over the finer points of the wording, they must have felt a need to do something quickly.

Certainly, in the couple of hours between the initial email, and the retraction, they would not have done an ananlysis of the costs of any other option that has been floated here (free pass for everyone etc). If they did come up with any such thing, it would have obviously incurred some expense, so that would need approval.

To have done that before sending out the retraction would mean we likely would not have heard from them yet, and then everyone would be having a "what's going on?" whine.

Which approach do all the marketing/pr guru's here think should have been taken?
 
I think the argument from here is that people should harden the cough* up as they say in the classics:

Virgin Blue’s mistake reveals countless selfish whingers

Thank you, Virgin Blue, for sending your “erroneous” email Friday night. You’ve done us a great public service. You’ve exposed a pack of greedy, selfish, shallow tools who deserve to be ridiculed publicly. Thank you. On Friday evening, Australian airline Virgin Blue sent an email telling some Velocity Rewards members they’d been upgraded to Gold status. But as documented at mUmBRELLA, the email went not just to those entitled to the upgrade but their entire database — including people who’d opted out of email marketing.
Including me because, yes, I’m a Velocity Rewards member.
“That can’t be right,” I thought. “I haven’t flown with Virgin Blue this year.” Then I saw others saying similar things online and I figured the mistake was more widespread. I chuckled, knowing that someone had a bit of a mess to clear up.
Sure enough, three hours later a second email arrived.
Oops! Due to an error you’ve received our previous email by mistake. Please disregard the free upgrade communication as unfortunately you do not qualify for that upgrade.
We apologise for any inconvenience caused.
Mistake. Correction. Apology. That’s the end of the story, yes? Alas no.
Suddenly a whole bunch of people are demanding their Gold status should stay even though, like, they’re not actually entitled to it. People are “upset”. They’re demanding compensation, some even saying they should be compensated with a free flight voucher.
Compensated? Compensated for cough*ing what, exactly?
From Stilgherrian Virgin Blue’s mistake reveals countless selfish whingers
 
Firstly, it is not obvious that a piece of work has gone on to implement a courtesy system to me.

Your first paragraph makes no sense considering the entire content of this thread. The fact that the campaign was incorrectly targeted/communicated does not mean that the campaign doesn't exist. :?:

Second, I have already read a few things on here that would suggest to me that virgin have a courtesy system for the customers they value.

Great - so I have nothing to worry about.
 
If the mathematics stack up, what's the harm of handing out a bucketload of Lounge passes?

I was thinking about this earlier. I think there's a massive downside to handing out free passes to everyone.

Handing them out is simple. They get 'attached' to a Velocity Members account for use. However, did this email just go to all Velocity Members, or everyone on the flights mailing list. How would they get passes to those people?

Then you have the number of emails sent out. 2 Million has been mentioned by some media - let's assume that is correct. If only 10% of people who are given a guest pass decide to use it (and say given a 6 month validity, 10% could be conservative, a 3 month validity - perhaps 5%), that is still 200,000 passes being redeemed.

Let's now imagine the pax walks into the lounge and grabs a little bit of food and a drink or two. Perhaps coffee, perhaps beer or wine. I'll average out a visit to cost $5 (hopefully people think this is conservative .. certainly $10 is probably the sort of cost).

So $5x200,000 = $1,000,000. Not small change.

Then, there is lost revenue from people who would normally have paid $35 (or whatever the going rate is) to enter the lounge.

On the positive side, some people who try the lounge would then sign up for membership, or visit more frequently.

But again, on the negative side - what would happen for the first 2-4 weeks after the passes were given out. Imagine Brisbane with 4 737's leaving in an hour (about the average). 4x100 (the planes might be lightly loaded) = 400 pax. Perhaps 20% of pax have a guest pass... Could the lounge handle 80 pax / hour entering and remaining in there for say 1.5-2 hours? How far would the queue stretch down the airport concourse? Would punters who have paid for yearly passes scream about overcrowding?

Oh - and only handing them out to "whiners" isn't really a good option either. Within 1 day of it happening, AFF, FT, Twitter, Facebook and even sites like OzBargain will be flooded with comments about how Virgin Blue gave away a free pass to them because they complained ... and so the complaints will just ramp up and be a lot higher than expected.

Logistically, financially and sensibility wise it just doesn't add up.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Become an AFF member!

Join Australian Frequent Flyer (AFF) for free and unlock insider tips, exclusive deals, and global meetups with 65,000+ frequent flyers.

AFF members can also access our Frequent Flyer Training courses, and upgrade to Fast-track your way to expert traveller status and unlock even more exclusive discounts!

AFF forum abbreviations

Wondering about Y, J or any of the other abbreviations used on our forum?

Check out our guide to common AFF acronyms & abbreviations.
Back
Top